Original Intent #3 (Electoral College)

[Wolfstrike]

Many Americans are baffled as to why the founders created an Electoral College system to determine who was going to be President.

The short answer is, it wasn't so important who became President. (The original idea, anyway)

You were expected to be politically active in your district, in your state, not expect the President to come back to your little town and solve problems for you.

What happens today is, a group like the ACLU will bring a complaint to a court, then the federal government will make a ruling and force the people in all the states to comply.
...it's too much federalism

It's important to note that the Electoral College has been changed several times and is not the same system the founders created.

The founders created a system that would attempt to equalize the states, so large states wouldn't dominate the election.

Now, certain states controlled by a certain political party who allows in 20 million foreigners per state, we ended up with the same problems the founders were trying to avoid.

They had to allow states to run their own process, and gerrymandering has been a problem since day #1.

Every state was expected to vote for their own representative for President. The most popular second choice would actually become President.

 

[JoeB131]

Many Americans are baffled as to why the founders created an Electoral College system to determine who was going to be President.

no, I could really care less why a bunch of slave-raping assholes did anything.

We really need to stop treating these guys like they came up with the constitution like it was on a stone tablet inscribed by God.

Whatever their original intent was, the very fact they had to modify the process with the 12th Amendment within a few decades shows it was a terrible idea.

The fact that this process, when it overrides the will of the people, has also given us some of our truly worst presidents- JQ Adams, Hayes, Bush, Trump- is another reason to just rid ourselves of the thing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is nonsense: bring in 20 million foreigners per state.

What the Original Founders intended no longer counts today.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

This is nonsense: bring in 20 million foreigners per state.

What the Original Founders intended no longer counts today.

For you, perhaps.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is nonsense: bring in 20 million foreigners per state.

What the Original Founders intended no longer counts today.

For you, perhaps.

In fact, Billy. SCOTUS opines today, not the Founders.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

This is nonsense: bring in 20 million foreigners per state.

What the Original Founders intended no longer counts today.

For you, perhaps.

In fact, Billy. SCOTUS opines today, not the Founders.

Thank Gawd for Trump.

Marbury v. Madison was a huge blunder, but it can be dealt with by rational appointments to the bench.

 

[Valerie]

Due to the Supremacy Clause in the United States Constitution, federal law overrides state law in most cases. The Supremacy Clause is closely related to the idea of preemption.

Preemption means that some issues are so important to the nation's well-being that the federal law should and must override state laws.

During desegregation in the South, many states tried to pass laws to halt its progress. The Supreme Court ruled that such laws were unconstitutional in Cooper vs. Aaron. This court case basically established the precedent that any such law a state tries to pass to nullify a federal law is not constitutional.


What kind of cases are heard in federal court?



The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution (Article VI, Clause 2) establishes that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it, and treaties made under its authority, constitute the supreme law of the land.[1] It provides that state courts are bound by the supreme law; in case of conflict between federal and state law, the federal law must be applied. Even state constitutions are subordinate to federal law.[2] In essence, it is a conflict-of-laws rule specifying that certain national acts take priority over any state acts that conflict with national law. In this respect, the Supremacy Clause follows the lead of Article XIII of the Articles of Confederation, which provided that "Every State shall abide by the determination of the United States in Congress Assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them."[3] A constitutional provision announcing the supremacy of federal law, the Supremacy Clause assumes the underlying priority of federal authority, at least when that authority is expressed in the Constitution itself.[4] No matter what the federal government or the states might wish to do, they have to stay within the boundaries of the Constitution. This makes the Supremacy Clause the cornerstone of the whole American political structure.[5][6]


Supremacy Clause - Wikipedia

 

[Valerie]

What happens today is, a group like the ACLU will bring a complaint to a court, then the federal government will make a ruling and force the people in all the states to comply.
...it's too much federalism

please give an example of a case brought by ACLU which resulted in "too much federalism".

 

[Valerie]

why three threads...??





Original Intent #1 (Bill of Rights)

Original Intent #2 (3 equal branches of a powerless government)

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

No matter what the federal government or the states might wish to do, they have to stay within the boundaries of the Constitution.

The 10th Amendment protects the states from federal law that falls outside of granted Constitutional authority, which is quite limited.

Case law and precedence do not alter the Constitution, but in many cases override it via judicial review. This is the problem.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This is nonsense: bring in 20 million foreigners per state.

What the Original Founders intended no longer counts today.

whys that?

 

[JoeB131]

What the Original Founders intended no longer counts today.

whys that?

Because we no longer shit in chamber-pots, bleed ourselves to treat colds and believe that Witchcraft is a thing, which is what the Founding Slave Rapists did.

I want government that makes sense for the 21st century, not the 18th.

Now, here's the thing. The arguments made at the time was that you had the filters of the Electoral College and the Congress preventing a dangerous demagogue from becoming president. Okay. Fair enough. The people make mistakes sometimes.

But this was exactly the opposite. The people got it right. They voted against the dangerous demagogue by about 3 million votes. But neither the electors or congress had the guts to say 'no".

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is nonsense: bring in 20 million foreigners per state.

What the Original Founders intended no longer counts today.

whys that?

Why should it? We have the Constitution and that is sufficient for the day.

 

[Wolfstrike]

.

I want government that makes sense for the 21st century, not the 18th.

.

in other words, you want to change the rules to how you like them

 

[JakeStarkey]

.

I want government that makes sense for the 21st century, not the 18th.

.

in other words, you want to change the rules to how you like them

The rules are quite clear, wolfstrike, and you don't like that they have built in rules for changes.

 

[JoeB131]

in other words, you want to change the rules to how you like them

You mean I think we should follow the will of the people instead of a capricious will of a couple of swing states? Um... yeah.

 

[Wolfstrike]

in other words, you want to change the rules to how you like them

You mean I think we should follow the will of the people instead of a capricious will of a couple of swing states? Um... yeah.

i'm all for it.
We'll send the public back to classes to re-learn the Constitution and liberty, then start taking votes.
At this point in time the electoral college is screwed up and it doesn't matter anyway

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, the reason the electoral college was invented was because it took a long time for people to travel back in the day.

Same reason that election day is the first Tuesday in November. It was designed so that people could go to church on Sunday, use Monday as a travel day to get to the polls, and then vote on Tuesday.

In the age of instant communication and internet, the electoral college is no longer required, because we can now count every individuals vote.

 

[Wolfstrike]

You know, the reason the electoral college was invented was because it took a long time for people to travel back in the day.

Same reason that election day is the first Tuesday in November. It was designed so that people could go to church on Sunday, use Monday as a travel day to get to the polls, and then vote on Tuesday.

In the age of instant communication and internet, the electoral college is no longer required, because we can now count every individuals vote.

those are valid points, but its also true the founders didn't want mob rule.
in early America, the citizens were to control their local area, not expect the President to trickle down policy from the top

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

You know, the reason the electoral college was invented was because it took a long time for people to travel back in the day.

Same reason that election day is the first Tuesday in November. It was designed so that people could go to church on Sunday, use Monday as a travel day to get to the polls, and then vote on Tuesday.

In the age of instant communication and internet, the electoral college is no longer required, because we can now count every individuals vote.

It is required by the Constitution, and until that requirement is changed by legal means, it will remain.