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[Annie]

I was thinking high altitidue drops with select regions in the country side targeted for two way radios, at first. They'd be stashed and hidden and very rarely used at first. I'm still thinking through the food issue.

I am just shy of clueless when it comes to strategic matters. However, I believe it's been speculated that NK is close to or has developed missiles capable of hitting, (sorry Comrade), the west coast of the US. If this is the case, why would they not have, to my mind at least, the more simple detection equipment and missiles to hit a high altitude plane?

Again, I may be 'off', but how much food, I assume with parachutes attached, can be dropped from a plane flying at very high altitudes? I thought that was like the fighter jets? Wouldn't we need to use cargo planes?

 

[Comrade]

I am just shy of clueless when it comes to strategic matters. However, I believe it's been speculated that NK is close to or has developed missiles capable of hitting, (sorry Comrade), the west coast of the US. If this is the case, why would they not have, to my mind at least, the more simple detection equipment and missiles to hit a high altitude plane?

Again, I may be 'off', but how much food, I assume with parachutes attached, can be dropped from a plane flying at very high altitudes? I thought that was like the fighter jets? Wouldn't we need to use cargo planes?

I have to catch up on the EM gun tech for a second... that sounds much more doable. Link coming...

As for what to launch, blocks of soy encased in a cellophane shell, and attached with a deployed parachute of (very strong) fiber, because terminal impact would otherwise be at Mach 5. This would be undetectable and bio-degradable.

And only one-way radios perhaps... until two way encoded and laser directed sat-phones could be specifically targeted to prevent detection of our communications.

 

[Annie]

I have to catch up on the EM gun tech for a second... that sounds much more doable. Link coming...

As for what to launch, block of soy encased in a cellophane shell, and attached with a deployed parachute of (very strong) fiber, becuase terminal impact would otherwise be at Mach 5.

And only one-way radios... until two way encoded and laser directed sat-phones could be specifically targeted.

:shocked: Ummm, English please?

 

[Comrade]

Hehe, one more second to finalize, and then I'll link and talk about the tech.

These need to enclosed in a metal sabot to actually get shot. The sabot is an encasement of metal around a payload, that drops away as it leaves the cannon.

You need the metal to attract to the magnets which switch on/off during the launch through the tube, but can drop the metal away so the payload won't reflect radar waves to NK recievers.

 

[Annie]

Hehe, one more second to finalize, and then I'll link and talk about the tech.

These need to enclosed in a metal sabot to actually get shot. The sabot is an encasement of metal around a payload, that drops away as it leaves the cannon.

You need the metal to attract to the magnets which switch on/off during the launch through the tube, but can drop the metal away so the payload won't reflect radar waves to NK recievers.

Now I can picture something that looks like those new storage at your door containers, but metal with magnets? Shot from a cannon, meaning some huge gun? And if it's being sent by air, why a gun? I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

 

[Comrade]

Link to the navy EM gun program:

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=1541

 

[Annie]

Link to the navy EM gun program:

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=1541

That Helped! Of course the gun looks like my mind pic of the package, but at least we're getting closer. So this would be delivered from a ship? And the NK Navy would be doing what? (dang it, those cards at that festival are going through my head!)

 

[Comrade]

Now I can picture something that looks like those new storage at your door containers, but metal with magnets? Shot from a cannon, meaning some huge gun? And if it's being sent by air, why a gun? I AM SO CONFUSED!!!

We could start drops by high altitude ballons of radar absorbant material at first.


The EM gun option is expected to be available later.

The thing about both, is that they are undetectable by NK radar.


Sure, they'll find a few packages and probably get us on the two ways, but it won't be enough to cause a war or international incident. We're not actually voilating their airspace or threatining more than information and later food.

We'll feel it out and make the call when and where to start serious backing. And definately keep each contact cellular, so no one knows of each other.

Until then, it gives us a backdoor.

 

[Annie]

We could start drops by high altitude ballons of radar absorbant material at first.


The EM gun option is expected to be available later.

The thing about both, is that they are undetectable by NK radar.


Sure, they'll find a few packages and probably get us on the two ways, but it won't be enough to cause a war or international incident. We're not actually voilating their airspace or threatining more than information and later food.

We'll feel it out and make the call when and where to start serious backing. And definately keep each contact cellular, so no one knows of each other.

Until then, it gives us a backdoor.

Interesting. Seems I remember something during WWII or Korean War where we dropped 'foil' to mess up what little radar Germany had. Maybe it was with the Brits? Hmmm

 

[Comrade]

That Helped! Of course the gun looks like my mind pic of the package, but at least we're getting closer. So this would be delivered from a ship? And the NK Navy would be doing what? (dang it, those cards at that festival are going through my head!)

Actually forget the ship, lol. We'll station these in S.K.

The payload flies and lands w/o the N.K. tracking it. They won't know more than they luck out on.

 

[Annie]

Actually forget the ship, lol. We'll station these in S.K.

The payload flies and lands w/o the N.K. tracking it. They won't know more than they luck out on.

OK, this is making some sense to my non-tech, non-weapons mind! Perhaps Dillos right, we should start a think tank!

 

[Comrade]

Interesting. Seems I remember something during WWII or Korean War where we dropped 'foil' to mess up what little radar Germany had. Maybe it was with the Brits? Hmmm

The thing about the foil was it created huge blips on the radar screen.

The tech today is to encase the payload in non-metal material, so that radar registers nothing at all.

 

[Annie]

The thing about the foil was it created huge blips on the radar screen.

The tech today is to encase the payload in non-metal material, so that radar registers nothing at all.

Yup, that's what it did, created big blips! Now I am seeing that scene in 'Twister' with the pop can stuff flying around. I think I should retire for the night??? :

 

[Comrade]

I also think the foil had to be cut to specific lengths to jam the WWII sets based on their frequency.

Anyway the whole point of this program is total stealth. And unaccoutability. Leave them guessing who is behind the drops, if they luck out on a package. It's highly covert. Definately a program for the CIA and used to seek out spies at first.

 

[Comrade]

Yup, that's what it did, created big blips! Now I am seeing that scene in 'Twister' with the pop can stuff flying around. I think I should retire for the night??? :

That's pretty much what it did, lol.

 

[Zhukov]

The only problem I have with fostering internal rebellion is if/when the North Koreans find where our supplies have landed they'll have no compunction about eradicating entire villages.

We may only succeed in getting a lot of otherwise innocent people killed.

I suppose it all depends on how much real control the government has over rural areas. It would be extremely helpful if we could get some idea of that control before attempting anything.

Of course, how do we do that?

 

[Annie]

The only problem I have with fostering internal rebellion is if/when the North Koreans find where our supplies have landed they'll have no compunction about eradicating entire villages.

We may only succeed in getting a lot of otherwise innocent people killed.

I suppose it all depends on how much real control they government has over rural areas. It would be extremely helpful if we could get some idea of that control before attempting anything.

Of course, how do we do that?

And thus we return full circle to before we started on this again. My fears too!

 

[Comrade]

The only problem I have with fostering internal rebellion is if/when the North Koreans find where our supplies have landed they'll have no compunction about eradicating entire villages.

We may only succeed in getting a lot of otherwise innocent people killed.

I suppose it all depends on how much real control the government has over rural areas. It would be extremely helpful if we could get some idea of that control before attempting anything.

Of course, how do we do that?

I get the disctinct impression that N.K. troops are overstretched at the S.K. border, the Chinese border, and in the capital. Some 700,000, or 70% of their troops, are deployed along the S.K. border and the bulk of rest are either prison guards along the Chinese border or fortressed around Seoul. It's possible to overstretch them, I think. With a rebellion in the countryside food will run out to feed them quickly, I think.

But it's not without risk of provoking Kim Il to first blackmail and then provoke a war with the West, in the death of his regime.

It's a big gamble, probably as risky as JFK with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

But waiting makes it worse, every day he goes on with his missile program.

Are we back to #5 (Wait it out)... come on peeps give me more creativity and brilliance!

 

[Annie]

State Department facts on NK military:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2792.htm

DEFENSE AND MILITARY ISSUES
North Korea now has the fourth-largest army in the world. It has an estimated 1.2 million armed personnel, compared to about 650,000 in the South. Military spending equals 20%-25% of GNP, with about 20% of men ages 17-54 in the regular armed forces. North Korean forces have a substantial numerical advantage over the South (approximately 2 or 3 to 1) in several key categories of offensive weapons--tanks, long-range artillery, and armored personnel carriers.

The North has perhaps the world's second-largest special operations force, designed for insertion behind the lines in wartime. While the North has a relatively impressive fleet of submarines, its surface fleet has a very limited capability. Its air force has twice the number of aircraft as the South, but, except for a few advanced fighters, the North's air force is obsolete. The North deploys the bulk of its forces well forward, along the DMZ. Several North Korean military tunnels under the DMZ were discovered in the 1970s.

In 1953, the Military Armistice Commission (MAC) was created to oversee and enforce the terms of the armistice. Over the past decade, North Korea has sought to dismantle the MAC in a push for a new "peace mechanism" on the peninsula. In April 1994, it declared the MAC void and withdrew its representatives. Over the last several years, North Korea has moved more of its rear-echelon troops to hardened bunkers closer to the DMZ. Given the proximity of Seoul to the DMZ (some 25 miles), South Korean and U.S. forces are likely to have little warning of any attack. The United States and South Korea continue to believe that the U.S. troop presence in South Korea remains an effective deterrent.

 

[Annie]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/kn.html

The CIA factbook puts the military numbers in better focus:

Military branches:
Korean People's Army (includes Army, Navy, Air Force), Civil Security Forces

Military manpower - military age:
17 years of age (2004 est.)

Military manpower - availability:
males age 15-49: 6,181,038 (2004 est.)

Military manpower - fit for military service:
males age 15-49: 3,694,855 (2004 est.)

Military manpower - reaching military age annually:
males: 189,014 (2004 est.)

Military expenditures - dollar figure:
$5,217.4 million (FY02)

Military expenditures - percent of GDP:
22.9% (2003)

Perhaps the most pragmatic way to go about this, though it would certainly hurt the people, is to find ways to cause an increase in the spending. They are already over 20% invested in military spending. Looking at the roads, shrines, make that memorials to the leaders, that's got to eat up a bit too. Their economy is definately not in good shape. I'd say they are past the 'tipping point?'