One topic never discussed

[CornbreadOracle]

Don't you think, perhaps, one of the biggest problems in American education is that it's being pimped out to federal gov't?

For instance, Podunk School System is set to get, say, 3 million dollars from the federal government to teach kids about 'social justice' (a code word for liberalism if I've ever heard one.) In order to recieve and keep receiving that money this school system must show that kids are learning key principles of 'social justice'. So they impliment a program teaching kids such useless stuff as "people in poverty are less educated and less advantaged than middle class and wealthy people". (DUH!) The problem is that this takes away from time spent on actual education. The kids may fail the SAT, but paperwork on the vacuous 'social justice' programs are meticulously turned in to the feds. More money is thereby poured into the sytstem, and the kids just keep getting dumber and dumber.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

Don't you think, perhaps, one of the biggest problems in American education is that it's being pimped out to federal gov't?

For instance, Podunk School System is set to get, say, 3 million dollars from the federal government to teach kids about 'social justice' (a code word for liberalism if I've ever heard one.) In order to recieve and keep receiving that money this school system must show that kids are learning key principles of 'social justice'. So they impliment a program teaching kids such useless stuff as "people in poverty are less educated and less advantaged than middle class and wealthy people". (DUH!) The problem is that this takes away from time spent on actual education. The kids may fail the SAT, but paperwork on the vacuous 'social justice' programs are meticulously turned in to the feds. More money is thereby poured into the sytstem, and the kids just keep getting dumber and dumber.

Like teaching creationism(complete bullshit) and abstinence in the classroom? Are those the things you're referring to cause there is some candidate for VP that wants that taught. Wonderful

 

[Caligirl]

What would you do specifically to help our edication system? And, why do you think we do so poorly?

 

[jillian]

Don't you think, perhaps, one of the biggest problems in American education is that it's being pimped out to federal gov't?

For instance, Podunk School System is set to get, say, 3 million dollars from the federal government to teach kids about 'social justice' (a code word for liberalism if I've ever heard one.) In order to recieve and keep receiving that money this school system must show that kids are learning key principles of 'social justice'. So they impliment a program teaching kids such useless stuff as "people in poverty are less educated and less advantaged than middle class and wealthy people". (DUH!) The problem is that this takes away from time spent on actual education. The kids may fail the SAT, but paperwork on the vacuous 'social justice' programs are meticulously turned in to the feds. More money is thereby poured into the sytstem, and the kids just keep getting dumber and dumber.

Do you think that's why the worst school districts are all in red states? Or do you think it has something to do with poverty and education being mutually exclusive.

Seems to me, the answer is bolster the middle class and the values that are attendant with that and you get a better educational system because the parents and the schools work in partnership.

Oh yeah... and get rid of the garbage that blurs the difference between science and religion. That helps.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with social justice. I kind of think of it as basic fairness and tolerance as nothing more than good manners.

 

[Navy1960]

This may sound rather old fashioned comming from and old fart like me, but whats wrong with teaching basics in school? Why not teach our young skills in math, science, english, and history? You know in my daughters school they did not even have to take history to get a diploma, it was optional and the required calls was called social studies. Some of these kids cannot even tell you who the first president of the United States is or balance a check book. When a school spends too much time trying to socially adjust children to precieved norms and less time on basic studies then these young people enter the world ill prepared for it. In an even more competitive world where math and science are very much in demand it doesn't not serve our country or our children to waste time on teaching social issues that should be taught in the home.

 

[CornbreadOracle]

Like teaching creationism(complete bullshit) and abstinence in the classroom? Are those the things you're referring to cause there is some candidate for VP that wants that taught. Wonderful

You may think creationism or intelligent design is "complete bullshit". Others don't, and in fact, many of us think that Darwin's evolution theory is seriously flawed. That's why many conservatives, such as Palin, want creationism taught in schools -- or at least mentioned -- as an alternate theory. Can you imagine how confusing it is for a kid who has been raised in a Christian home to be told by the school system that what your parents and church family have been telling you all along is complete hooey? What parent in their right mind wants carefully instilled, deeply cherished religious beliefs contradicted in that way? And, BTW, Christianity is not a fringe religion, don't go with "what if the parents are teaching the kids that Chula, the Goddess of Snow Peas, is the center of the universe?" or some nonsense like that.

 

[jillian]

This may sound rather old fashioned comming from and old fart like me, but whats wrong with teaching basics in school? Why not teach our young skills in math, science, english, and history? You know in my daughters school they did not even have to take history to get a diploma, it was optional and the required calls was called social studies. Some of these kids cannot even tell you who the first president of the United States is or balance a check book. When a school spends too much time trying to socially adjust children to precieved norms and less time on basic studies then these young people enter the world ill prepared for it. In an even more competitive world where math and science are very much in demand it doesn't not serve our country or our children to waste time on teaching social issues that should be taught in the home.

Hatred is passed from parent to child. If someone's teaching racism at home, do you have a problem with that person's kids being taught better? I don't see anything wrong with making the world a better place. Where else do you start?

 

[jillian]

You may think creationism or intelligent design is "complete bullshit". Others don't, and in fact, many of us think that Darwin's evolution theory is seriously flawed. That's why many conservatives, such as Palin, want creationism taught in schools -- or at least mentioned -- as an alternate theory. Can you imagine how confusing it is for a kid who has been raised in a Christian home to be told by the school system that what your parents and church family have been telling you all along is complete hooey? What parent in their right mind wants carefully instilled, deeply cherished religious beliefs contradicted in that way? And, BTW, Christianity is not a fringe religion, don't go with "what if the parents are teaching the kids that Chula, the Goddess of Snow Peas, is the center of the universe?" or some nonsense like that.

Creationism isn't science. And if you want your child to be taught bible as science, by all means send them to parochial school. But don't wonder why that child can't compete scientifically with the rest of the world.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

You may think creationism or intelligent design is "complete bullshit". Others don't, and in fact, many of us think that Darwin's evolution theory is seriously flawed. That's why many conservatives, such as Palin, want creationism taught in schools -- or at least mentioned -- as an alternate theory. Can you imagine how confusing it is for a kid who has been raised in a Christian home to be told by the school system that what your parents and church family have been telling you all along is complete hooey? What parent in their right mind wants carefully instilled, deeply cherished religious beliefs contradicted in that way? And, BTW, Christianity is not a fringe religion, don't go with "what if the parents are teaching the kids that Chula, the Goddess of Snow Peas, is the center of the universe?" or some nonsense like that.

Actually, I apologize if I offended your belief system, but science is science. Anyway, I do apologize

 

[midcan5]

I think the problem is cultural and not education. Oriental and India students generally do better because education is important to them. Upper class children of educated parents do better. For many Americans education is something you get past till they sign you onto the Yankees or your corporate contacts get you that dream job or daddy and mommy give you the shop keys. A majority of American kids just don't give a darn, education has no value, as they can tell and show you lots of fools with lots of money. Even Gates dropped out. The scary part is these are the people who will vote, work, and manage America into the future.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

This may sound rather old fashioned comming from and old fart like me, but whats wrong with teaching basics in school? Why not teach our young skills in math, science, english, and history? You know in my daughters school they did not even have to take history to get a diploma, it was optional and the required calls was called social studies. Some of these kids cannot even tell you who the first president of the United States is or balance a check book. When a school spends too much time trying to socially adjust children to precieved norms and less time on basic studies then these young people enter the world ill prepared for it. In an even more competitive world where math and science are very much in demand it doesn't not serve our country or our children to waste time on teaching social issues that should be taught in the home.

I do find myself very intrigued to read your responses I gotta tell you. Your experience in life comes shining through

 

[bigdaddygtr]

My whole point with this thread is that our education system is almost in disaster areas and if we don't start to talk about it more, and soon, we're screwed

 

[CornbreadOracle]

Do you think that's why the worst school districts are all in red states? Or do you think it has something to do with poverty and education being mutually exclusive.

Seems to me, the answer is bolster the middle class and the values that are attendant with that and you get a better educational system because the parents and the schools work in partnership.

Oh yeah... and get rid of the garbage that blurs the difference between science and religion. That helps.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with social justice. I kind of think of it as basic fairness and tolerance as nothing more than good manners.

I think, and this is purely annecdotal based on personal observation, that small town Southerners tend to be very traditional and want to hang on to their tiny little local schools because that's where they attended and their parents attended. There's less consolidation and therefore a greater number of tiny little schools that just can't provide the education that bigger schools can.

Fine, if you think social justice is ok, then *you* teach it to *your* kids. Don't force the government to teach it to every kid.

 

[Caligirl]

My whole point with this thread is that our education system is almost in disaster areas and if we don't start to talk about it more, and soon, we're screwed

Alright, let's talk about it.

What can help our edcation system? That seems like a good place for a discussion to start ----

 

[jillian]

I think, and this is purely annecdotal based on personal observation, that small town Southerners tend to be very traditional and want to hang on to their tiny little local schools because that's where they attended and their parents attended. There's less consolidation and therefore a greater number of tiny little schools that just can't provide the education that bigger schools can.

Fine, if you think social justice is ok, then *you* teach it to *your* kids. Don't force the government to teach it to every kid.

Force? Truth is, kids are in school with different kinds of children. My own son went from a 400 person elementary school almost exclusively populated by white middle and uppper middle class (and in some cases, very wealthy) students... to a gifted middle school program filled with almost 3,000 students of varying ethnicity, and socio-economic status. They just finished a "diversity" section in social studies where each had to do presentation about their background, including discussion of differing religious holidays and each providing a recipe from their background for a class recipe book.

Personally, I thought it was one of the coolest things I've seen and I'm not sure why it's a bad thing that my son now has friends from all types of backgrounds.

And I've now got great recipes for Irish Soda Bread, Hummus and Masala Biryani. And they have a great recipe for cheese blintzes

 

[CornbreadOracle]

Creationism isn't science. And if you want your child to be taught bible as science, by all means send them to parochial school. But don't wonder why that child can't compete scientifically with the rest of the world.

Actually, Evolution isn't science either. It's a theory, with some seriously flawed, out of date "science" behind it. Science, by definition, is provable, which is why neither Creationism nor Evolution are credible school courses, IMHO. If it were up to me no schools would be teaching so-called "science" classes about the origins of the universe, because that is tied more to closely held cultural and religious beliefs than it is a valid scientific study.

 

[Caligirl]

I don't think your definition of science is right, cornbread. Science is study based ont he scientific method, which evolution is and creationism isn't.

If it makes testable predictions, it is science.

 

[jillian]

Actually, Evolution isn't science either. It's a theory, with some seriously flawed, out of date "science" behind it. Science, by definition, is provable, which is why neither Creationism nor Evolution are credible school courses, IMHO. If it were up to me no schools would be teaching so-called "science" classes about the origins of the universe, because that is tied more to closely held cultural and religious beliefs than it is a valid scientific study.

Our scientific conclusions are based upon the best evidence available at a given time. Scientific theories (as opposed to religious theory) get peer reviewed and have replicable results. Creationism cannot be peer reviewed any more than the existence of G-d can... nor can the results of "creationism" be replicated.

Sorry, it's not science. I have no issues with it being taught as part of a COMPARATIVE religion class, but it doesn't belong in science. And I mean no offense to your religious beliefs, I'd absolutely defend your right to believe them. But the blurring of the lines between religion and science is affecting our ability to compete in the real world.

 

[CornbreadOracle]

Force? Truth is, kids are in school with different kinds of children. My own son went from a 400 person elementary school almost exclusively populated by white middle and uppper middle class (and in some cases, very wealthy) students... to a gifted middle school program filled with almost 3,000 students of varying ethnicity, and socio-economic status. They just finished a "diversity" section in social studies where each had to do presentation about their background, including discussion of differing religious holidays and each providing a recipe from their background for a class recipe book.

Personally, I thought it was one of the coolest things I've seen and I'm not sure why it's a bad thing that my son now has friends from all types of backgrounds.

And I've now got great recipes for Irish Soda Bread, Hummus and Masala Biryani.

I'm going to drop this line of our discussion now, because it's getting to "how do we raise our kids" and I don't have kids. I was not intentionally going that direction.

But I would never go so far as to say that it is a bad thing that your son is learning about different cultures and has friends of different backgrounds.

 

[bigdaddygtr]

Force? Truth is, kids are in school with different kinds of children. My own son went from a 400 person elementary school almost exclusively populated by white middle and uppper middle class (and in some cases, very wealthy) students... to a gifted middle school program filled with almost 3,000 students of varying ethnicity, and socio-economic status. They just finished a "diversity" section in social studies where each had to do presentation about their background, including discussion of differing religious holidays and each providing a recipe from their background for a class recipe book.

Personally, I thought it was one of the coolest things I've seen and I'm not sure why it's a bad thing that my son now has friends from all types of backgrounds.

And I've now got great recipes for Irish Soda Bread, Hummus and Masala Biryani.

I believe you're referring to the IB program? It is a fantastic thing