Once Upon a Time, the DOJ Argued the Presidential Records Act Gave a President Massive Authority Over His Records

[martybegan]

"Does. He. Still. Have. Them." You tell me.

Its your own argument....and you refuse to answer. Or to make a point. You just flee.

Do you ever get tired of running from me?

You refuse to even say "I don't know", but you make the whole thing about it being about not giving things back.

Once again parading your pre-made assumptions due to TDS as fact.

 

[Skylar]

You refuse to even say "I don't know", but you make the whole thing about it being about not giving things back.

Once again parading your pre-made assumptions due to TDS as fact.

I'm neither your Mommy nor your Daddy. You're allowed to speak and make your own argument, regardless of what I say or don't.

You're stalling. You're running. If your argument merit, you wouldn't need to run.

"Does. He. Still. Have. Them." You tell me.

 

[BackAgain]

I wish it was actually possible to nominate a thread for a genuine award to be awarded by a Board vote. This thread would have to be a contender.

Not just the fact of the case law, itself. But the fact that it was the United States of America’s government and it’s Department of Justice which made the legal argument (then) on behalf of the former President (Bubba Clinton) to the court — and won.

Great thread. It should be an award winning thread.

 

[martybegan]

I'm neither your Mommy nor your Daddy. You're allowed to speak and make your own argument, regardless of what I say or don't.

You're stalling. You're running. If your argument merit, you wouldn't need to run.

"Does. He. Still. Have. Them." You tell me.

You are the one making the case that it's because "he didn't give them back". Oh wait, you said it's not about documents given back, so obviously he must still have them, right?

 

[Skylar]

I wish it was actually possible to nominate a thread for a genuine award to be awarded by a Board vote. This thread would have to be a contender.

Not just the fact of the case law, itself. But the fact that it was the United States of America’s government and it’s Department of Justice which made the legal argument (then) on behalf of the former President (Bubba Clinton) to the court — and won.

Great thread. It should be an award winning thread.

And not one of the documents cited in the Judicial Watch case were classified national security documents.

Your entire legal premise.....is that classified national security documents are 'personal records'.

Good fucking luck with that in court.

 

[Skylar]

You are the one making the case that it's because "he didn't give them back". Oh wait, you said it's not about documents given back, so obviously he must still have them, right?

Then make your case that I'm wrong.

Neither Mommy nor Daddy need to hold your hand and allow you to make your argument. You can do it all on your own.

"Does. He. Still. Have. Them." You tell me.

If for some bizarre reason you need my permission to make your own argument, then you have it. I grant you permission to make your own claims.

You're free, Marty!

 

[martybegan]

Then make your case that I'm wrong.

Neither Mommy nor Daddy need to hold your hand and allow you to make your argument. You can do it all on your own.

"Does. He. Still. Have. Them." You tell me.

If for some bizarre reason you need my permission to make your own argument, then you have it. I grant you permission to make your own argument.

You are the one trying to make the point without knowing if he still has them or not, which your entire point is based on.

The rest of your post is just flailing and semantics.

 

[BackAgain]

And not one of the documents cited in the Judicial Watch case were classified national security documents.

Your entire legal premise.....is that classified national security documents are 'personal records'.

Good fucking luck with that in court.

You’re wrong again, skippy.

And you need a new line.

 

[Skylar]

You are the one trying to make the point without knowing if he still has them or not, which your entire point is based on.

The rest of your post is just flailing and semantics.

Are you claiming that Trump still has the documents he returned to NARA?

I'm not sure what your point is. And apparently, neither do you.

When you ever manage to make your point, find me. I'll be around.

 

[Skylar]

You’re wrong again, skippy.

And you need a new line.

Laughing....check again. The argument in Judicial Watch case was the difference between presidential records and personal records. With NARA arguing that Clinton's designation of tapes he'd made for a book that was to be written after the presidency were personal records.

Good fucking luck arguing in court that classified national security docs were Trump's 'personal records'.

 

[martybegan]

Are you claiming that Trump still has the documents he returned to NARA?

I'm not sure what your point is. And apparently, neither do you.

When you ever manage to make your point, find me. I'll be around.

You are claiming he's charged because he didn't give them back, while the others aren't being charged because they gave them back. All after they were supposed to give them back, all far longer than the duration Trump had them.

And he was President, which means all documents made during his presidency are his by law, unlike the others.

 

[Skylar]

You are claiming he's charged because he didn't give them back, while the others aren't being charged because they gave them back. All after they were supposed to give them back, all far longer than the duration Trump had them.

And he was President, which means all documents made during his presidency are his by law, unlike the others.

Nope. All presidential records belong to the United States.

"Ownership of Presidential records. The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter."

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title44/chapter22&edition=prelim

Remember, Marty....you don't actually know what you're talking about.

 

[martybegan]

Nope. All presidential records belong to the United States.

"Ownership of Presidential records. The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter."

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title44/chapter22&edition=prelim

Remember, Marty....you don't actually know what you're talking about.

And while in office the President IS the United States, at least he's the government as understood from an executive standpoint. And I'm sure they had copies of each document Trump had, so the question isn't about missing virgin documents, it's about copies.

 

[Skylar]

And while in office the President IS the United States, at least he's the government as understood from an executive standpoint. And I'm sure they had copies of each document Trump had, so the question isn't about missing virgin documents, it's about copies.

Trump isn't president. He wasn't president when NARA demanded he return classified docs.

He wasn't president when NARA subpoena'd those same classified docs. He wasn't president when he turned over SOME of those classified docs. He wasn't president when he lied to investigators, compelled his lawyer to lie, conspired to hide the remaining docs in his possession, nor was he president when he showed classified docs to other people.

And all of those presidential records belonged to the United States.

And 'its about copies' says who? Is it you citing yourself as the law again? Its you citing yourself, isn't it?

 

[BackAgain]

“The [Presidential Records Act] does not confer any mandatory or even discretional authority on the archivist . . . . Under the statute, this responsibility is left solely to the president.” Said the judge. Need the cite?

That means the discretion as to which materials are personal and which are Presidential records.

 

[BackAgain]

Laughing....check again. The argument in Judicial Watch case was the difference between presidential records and personal records. With NARA arguing that Clinton's designation of tapes he'd made for a book that was to be written after the presidency were personal records.

Good fucking luck arguing in court that classified national security docs were Trump's 'personal records'.

Good luck in court, yourself. Oh, wait. You’re not in court, either. You dumbass.

 

[Skylar]

“The [Presidential Records Act] does not confer any mandatory or even discretional authority on the archivist . . . . Under the statute, this responsibility is left solely to the president.” Said the judge. Need the cite?

That means the discretion as to which materials are personal and which are Presidential records.

The designation being discussed in the Judicial Watch case was that between personal records and presidential records.

So your argument.....is that classified national security docs were Trump's personal records?

If so, good fucking luck in court!

 

[BackAgain]

The designation being discussed in the Judicial Watch case was that between personal records and presidential records.

So your argument.....is that classified national security docs were Trump's personal records?

If so, good fucking luck in court!

If they were declassified as he maintains, sure.

And good fucking luck to you in court, too.

Your new tag line is a reflection of your vapid thinking.

 

[Skylar]

If they were declassified as he maintains, sure.

He's on tape admitting that he had classified docs.

And if had ANY classified docs, then there was no 'automatic' declassification order. As the classified docs that Trump admitted to having....wouldn't been classified.

And yet it was, by Trump's own admission.

There's a reason why Trump's attorney's have NEVER offered the 'telepathic declassification' argument before a judge. Its the kind of meaningless pseudo-legal horseshit that Trump feeds to people like you.

Even Judge Cannon is requiring everyone to get security clearance to view the docs. If the docs were already declassified.....why would you need security clearance to view them?

Laughing.....good fucking luck arguing that classified national security docs were 'personal records'.

 

[BackAgain]

He's on tape admitting that he had classified docs.

Nope. He’s not. That’s your take on what was said, according to a dubious transcript, but it lacks any hope of context.

So, assholes like you will jump to your desired conclusions. That’s all.