On this day in 1943: Lt. Kennedy helps save the crew of PT-109

[whitehall]

First of all nobody wants to second guess the heroism of WW2 Veterans or Veterans of any other conflict ....unless the heroism is the basis of a political career. Then it becomes a legitimate subject for dissection and discussion. After being busted out of a cushy job in Naval Intelligence for allegedly fraternizing with a female Nazi agent old Joe Kennedy pulled some strings and his son was reassigned to the PT Boats even though he suffered from a congenital painful back problem requiring constant medication. Apparently the young skipper ran a loose command. P.T. Boats were fast and maneuverable and built for quick hit and run attacks. While P.T. Boats suffered incredible casualties from daylight plane attack and gunfire JFK's boat was the only one to be run over by an enemy ship during the war while sitting idle in the shipping lanes in the middle of the night. The Navy wanted to Court Martial the young skipper for losing his boat until old Joe Kennedy pulled some more strings and hired a Hollywood script writer to romanticize the incident and publish it in some pop magazine and the Navy backed off.

 

[Freewill]

How does a PT boat get rammed by a destroyer? PT boat, light and maneuverable, destroyer, not so much.

"
"PT-109 was ordered to continue patrolling the area in case the enemy ships returned. Around 2:00 a.m. on 2 August 1943, on a moonless night, Kennedy's boat was idling on one engine to avoid detection of her wake by Japanese aircraft when the crew realized they were in the path of the Japanese destroyer Amagiri, which was returning to Rabaul from Vila, Kolombangara, after offloading supplies and 900 soldiers. Amagiri was traveling at a relatively high speed of between 23 and 40 knots (43 and 74 km/h) in order to reach harbor by dawn, when Allied air patrols were likely to appear.

The crew of the PT-109 had less than ten seconds to get the engines up to speed, and were run down by the destroyer between Kolombangara and Ghizo Island."

Motor Torpedo Boat PT-109 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Yeah, I read that after I posted. A Moonless night, how did they expect an airplane to see them? I guess the roar of a destroyer coming at high speed was drowned out by the one engine running with the silencers deployed.

Kennedy has been dead over 50 years and you're trying to swift boat him. Or is it pt boat him? You must be a republican.

As I said before, I am just playing the Devil's advocate. Not much of a discussion if everyone agrees.

 

[regent]

The only hero that has a chance of remaining a hero in this day and age is John Wayne. I would suggest Audie Murphy as a hero but Murphy was poor and supposedly a Democrat, so it looks like John Wayne is it.

 

[rightwinger]

The only hero that has a chance of remaining a hero in this day and age is John Wayne. I would suggest Audie Murphy as a hero but Murphy was poor and supposedly a Democrat, so it looks like John Wayne is it.

John Wayne. Like a true Republican

Ducked the war

 

[whitehall]

The only hero that has a chance of remaining a hero in this day and age is John Wayne. I would suggest Audie Murphy as a hero but Murphy was poor and supposedly a Democrat, so it looks like John Wayne is it.

Are we looking for examples of heroes or anti-heroes or freaking fake heroes or are we discussing a historic event on the history forum?

 

[Camp]

First of all nobody wants to second guess the heroism of WW2 Veterans or Veterans of any other conflict ....unless the heroism is the basis of a political career. Then it becomes a legitimate subject for dissection and discussion. After being busted out of a cushy job in Naval Intelligence for allegedly fraternizing with a female Nazi agent old Joe Kennedy pulled some strings and his son was reassigned to the PT Boats even though he suffered from a congenital painful back problem requiring constant medication. Apparently the young skipper ran a loose command. P.T. Boats were fast and maneuverable and built for quick hit and run attacks. While P.T. Boats suffered incredible casualties from daylight plane attack and gunfire JFK's boat was the only one to be run over by an enemy ship during the war while sitting idle in the shipping lanes in the middle of the night. The Navy wanted to Court Martial the young skipper for losing his boat until old Joe Kennedy pulled some more strings and hired a Hollywood script writer to romanticize the incident and publish it in some pop magazine and the Navy backed off.

Where does this story come from?

 

[whitehall]

First of all nobody wants to second guess the heroism of WW2 Veterans or Veterans of any other conflict ....unless the heroism is the basis of a political career. Then it becomes a legitimate subject for dissection and discussion. After being busted out of a cushy job in Naval Intelligence for allegedly fraternizing with a female Nazi agent old Joe Kennedy pulled some strings and his son was reassigned to the PT Boats even though he suffered from a congenital painful back problem requiring constant medication. Apparently the young skipper ran a loose command. P.T. Boats were fast and maneuverable and built for quick hit and run attacks. While P.T. Boats suffered incredible casualties from daylight plane attack and gunfire JFK's boat was the only one to be run over by an enemy ship during the war while sitting idle in the shipping lanes in the middle of the night. The Navy wanted to Court Martial the young skipper for losing his boat until old Joe Kennedy pulled some more strings and hired a Hollywood script writer to romanticize the incident and publish it in some pop magazine and the Navy backed off.

Where does this story come from?

The truth is easy to find but you have to get beyond the media spin.

 

[Camp]

First of all nobody wants to second guess the heroism of WW2 Veterans or Veterans of any other conflict ....unless the heroism is the basis of a political career. Then it becomes a legitimate subject for dissection and discussion. After being busted out of a cushy job in Naval Intelligence for allegedly fraternizing with a female Nazi agent old Joe Kennedy pulled some strings and his son was reassigned to the PT Boats even though he suffered from a congenital painful back problem requiring constant medication. Apparently the young skipper ran a loose command. P.T. Boats were fast and maneuverable and built for quick hit and run attacks. While P.T. Boats suffered incredible casualties from daylight plane attack and gunfire JFK's boat was the only one to be run over by an enemy ship during the war while sitting idle in the shipping lanes in the middle of the night. The Navy wanted to Court Martial the young skipper for losing his boat until old Joe Kennedy pulled some more strings and hired a Hollywood script writer to romanticize the incident and publish it in some pop magazine and the Navy backed off.

Where does this story come from?

The truth is easy to find but you have to get beyond the media spin.

I have an original PT 109 book from the early 60's that was a present and one of the first books I read. You either know where the story came from or not. You have a source or you don't. I grew up in a home and family dominated by WWII veterans of both theaters.

 

[regent]

First of all nobody wants to second guess the heroism of WW2 Veterans or Veterans of any other conflict ....unless the heroism is the basis of a political career. Then it becomes a legitimate subject for dissection and discussion. After being busted out of a cushy job in Naval Intelligence for allegedly fraternizing with a female Nazi agent old Joe Kennedy pulled some strings and his son was reassigned to the PT Boats even though he suffered from a congenital painful back problem requiring constant medication. Apparently the young skipper ran a loose command. P.T. Boats were fast and maneuverable and built for quick hit and run attacks. While P.T. Boats suffered incredible casualties from daylight plane attack and gunfire JFK's boat was the only one to be run over by an enemy ship during the war while sitting idle in the shipping lanes in the middle of the night. The Navy wanted to Court Martial the young skipper for losing his boat until old Joe Kennedy pulled some more strings and hired a Hollywood script writer to romanticize the incident and publish it in some pop magazine and the Navy backed off.

Where does this story come from?

The truth is easy to find but you have to get beyond the media spin.

The truth is difficult to find in a military situation. Only a few might be around to verify or attest to the act. The military tries but its not like a baseball player where the acts have been visible to many for some time. Until we find a better method maybe it is still best for the military to be the judge and their award as the best evidence. It is a shame for a serviceman to commit a brave act and have it shot down later by politicians because the act threatens their political ambitions.

 

[westwall]

I still don't know how he got hit in the first place, but his actions in saving his crew were heroic

JFK barely recovered after the ordeal

After a few months in the water there, the hulls were so covered in seaweed and barnacles, that the PT boats could only make a fraction of their top speed due to drag.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Bizarre, how any can question the heroism of Kennedy, McCain, Kerry, Dole.

What part of "he was in a tiny PT boat that was run over by a Jap destroyer during WW2 in the slot in the Solomons" sounds like a cakewalk? This is the exact same spot the Black Sheep Squadron fought in and this entire area was hotly contested for more than two years.

Honestly, wtf has con media done to people's minds.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I still don't know how he got hit in the first place, but his actions in saving his crew were heroic

JFK barely recovered after the ordeal

I just read a write up and it mentions no injuries other then maybe his back. It makes no mention of him barely recovering.

he had his bad back prior to his gig in the navy

 

[jon_berzerk]

I still don't know how he got hit in the first place, but his actions in saving his crew were heroic

JFK barely recovered after the ordeal

After a few months in the water there, the hulls were so covered in seaweed and barnacles, that the PT boats could only make a fraction of their top speed due to drag.

routine maintenance must have been unheard of back then

--LOL

 

[westwall]

I still don't know how he got hit in the first place, but his actions in saving his crew were heroic

JFK barely recovered after the ordeal

After a few months in the water there, the hulls were so covered in seaweed and barnacles, that the PT boats could only make a fraction of their top speed due to drag.

routine maintenance must have been unheard of back then

--LOL

Without a drydock there is no way to clean the hull.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I still don't know how he got hit in the first place, but his actions in saving his crew were heroic

JFK barely recovered after the ordeal

After a few months in the water there, the hulls were so covered in seaweed and barnacles, that the PT boats could only make a fraction of their top speed due to drag.

routine maintenance must have been unheard of back then

--LOL

Without a drydock there is no way to clean the hull.

indeed there certainly is

 

[westwall]

I still don't know how he got hit in the first place, but his actions in saving his crew were heroic

JFK barely recovered after the ordeal

After a few months in the water there, the hulls were so covered in seaweed and barnacles, that the PT boats could only make a fraction of their top speed due to drag.

routine maintenance must have been unheard of back then

--LOL

Without a drydock there is no way to clean the hull.

indeed there certainly is

In a warzone With no support? Do tell.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I still don't know how he got hit in the first place, but his actions in saving his crew were heroic

JFK barely recovered after the ordeal

After a few months in the water there, the hulls were so covered in seaweed and barnacles, that the PT boats could only make a fraction of their top speed due to drag.

routine maintenance must have been unheard of back then

--LOL

Without a drydock there is no way to clean the hull.

indeed there certainly is

In a warzone With no support? Do tell.

it was in the water less then a year since it was built

and it was in port

at Tulagi at the end of April

when JFK took command

it had been under JFK barely more then a couple of months

 

[Camp]

I still don't know how he got hit in the first place, but his actions in saving his crew were heroic

JFK barely recovered after the ordeal

After a few months in the water there, the hulls were so covered in seaweed and barnacles, that the PT boats could only make a fraction of their top speed due to drag.

routine maintenance must have been unheard of back then

--LOL

Without a drydock there is no way to clean the hull.

indeed there certainly is

Even the smallest PT Boat ports had maintenance capabilities. Tulagi and Rendova were not small Ports. Rendova had multiple side by side dry docks. I have seen video of the Rendova docks. Not sure about Tulagi, but since the docks were prefabed for on site assembly and portable there is no reason to think they would not have them there.

 

[jon_berzerk]

I still don't know how he got hit in the first place, but his actions in saving his crew were heroic

JFK barely recovered after the ordeal

After a few months in the water there, the hulls were so covered in seaweed and barnacles, that the PT boats could only make a fraction of their top speed due to drag.

routine maintenance must have been unheard of back then

--LOL

Without a drydock there is no way to clean the hull.

indeed there certainly is

Even the smallest PT Boat ports had maintenance capabilities. Tulagi and Rendova were not small Ports. Rendova had multiple side by side dry docks. I have seen video of the Rendova docks. Not sure about Tulagi, but since the docks were prefabed for on site assembly and portable there is no reason to think they would not have them there.

yup

 

[whitehall]

First of all nobody wants to second guess the heroism of WW2 Veterans or Veterans of any other conflict ....unless the heroism is the basis of a political career. Then it becomes a legitimate subject for dissection and discussion. After being busted out of a cushy job in Naval Intelligence for allegedly fraternizing with a female Nazi agent old Joe Kennedy pulled some strings and his son was reassigned to the PT Boats even though he suffered from a congenital painful back problem requiring constant medication. Apparently the young skipper ran a loose command. P.T. Boats were fast and maneuverable and built for quick hit and run attacks. While P.T. Boats suffered incredible casualties from daylight plane attack and gunfire JFK's boat was the only one to be run over by an enemy ship during the war while sitting idle in the shipping lanes in the middle of the night. The Navy wanted to Court Martial the young skipper for losing his boat until old Joe Kennedy pulled some more strings and hired a Hollywood script writer to romanticize the incident and publish it in some pop magazine and the Navy backed off.

Where does this story come from?

The truth is easy to find but you have to get beyond the media spin.

The truth is difficult to find in a military situation. Only a few might be around to verify or attest to the act. The military tries but its not like a baseball player where the acts have been visible to many for some time. Until we find a better method maybe it is still best for the military to be the judge and their award as the best evidence. It is a shame for a serviceman to commit a brave act and have it shot down later by politicians because the act threatens their political ambitions.

It wasn't the Military that promoted the myth of PT 109, it was old Joe Kennedy and his Hollywood connections and later the "Camelot" infatuated media.