OMG! I like Bernie's idea for free college, with a few tweeks...

[Mike Dwight]

For once in life, can only the third of the populace with a bachelor's education be qualified to speak. Nobody wants any sort of "free education", especially the universities. The universities will spin you, this is just some sum of money for you to take their campus seriously! They survive from rich research and donations and whatever.
For some of you, let me repeat, there was never one noninstitutional meeting, there was never comingling of anybody, there wasn't a college movie on the TV to go what the heck is this.
The country itself will not afford luxurious specialty, non-life specific education to Everybody. I never spent a day wanting an education. How about that. British Literature 2? History of Art? Consumer Behavior? And I signed up for accounting. Aren't most people there for the Chemical Engineering, zoom zoom money.
Its not about helping anybody grow as a person. I think that's ridiculous too. And how can you Measure these highschool counselors and statistical analysts Agenda to make these bell curves and line graphs that just shout, College, Success, Win, other way, Silence of the Lambs.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

How is it stealing? By not waiting for the stock to appreciate like the rest of the investors.

I can sell my stock 5 years after I buy it, 5 minutes after, 5 microseconds after.
None of those options steals a penny from you.

By using super-computers to do billions of buys/sells in nanoseconds and stealing $100's of millions of stock value from long term investors.

You still haven't shown how the speed of their computers steals a penny from me.
Or walked me through a typical trade. How do they "skim". Or don't you know?

A minimal tax would make that unprofitable.

And wouldn't do a thing to help me or my QQQs.
Yes they did steal from your shares, who the fuck do you think they took their profit from?

You're lying, because a soundbite is easier than proof.

Point being that Bernie's proposal kills two birds, it funds higher education and job training

You never said how much this tax would raise for the government.

and helps stock investors by stopping high speed computer traders

Since I'm not competing against these traders and held my position for years, they don't help or hurt me.​

How is it stealing? By not waiting for the stock to appreciate like the rest of the investors.
I can sell my stock 5 years after I buy it, 5 minutes after, 5 microseconds after. None of those options steals a penny from you.
I agree for the 5-years, but not the 5-minutes or 5-microseconds. The purpose of the stock market is to give capital to companies to grow and generate more profit. The short term high-speed traders don't add value, they steal investment capital.

By using super-computers to do billions of buys/sells in nanoseconds and stealing $100's of millions of stock value from long term investors. You still haven't shown how the speed of their computers steals a penny from me. Or walked me through a typical trade. How do they "skim". Or don't you know? If you don't understand the bold answer above, you need to do your own research on high-speed trading.

A minimal transaction tax would make high-speed trading unprofitable. And wouldn't do a thing to help me or my QQQs.
A minimal transaction tax would prevent the high-speed traders from robbing you blind. DUH.


Yes they did steal from your shares, who the fuck do you think they took their profit from? You're lying, because a soundbite is easier than proof. Denial is not a refutation. Who do you think they stole the money from? (ans: investors)


You never said how much this tax would raise for the government. The transaction tax should raise about $200b a year.
Bernie Sanders: I Will Cancel All $1.6 Trillion Of Your Student Loan Debt
"Sanders will fund his student loan forgiveness plan through a new tax on financial transactions, which he expects could raise more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years. The tax plan will include a 0.5% fee on all stock trades, a 0.1% fee on all bond trades and a 0.005% fee on all derivatives trades."


Since I'm not competing against these traders and held my position for years, they don't help or hurt me.
If they steal hundreds of millions of dollars in stock value, they are taking some of your money. They don't add value, they don't invest, they skim money using super-computers, DUH.​

The short term high-speed traders don't add value, they steal investment capital.

First they stole from me, now they steal from the stock issuer?

By using super-computers to do billions of buys/sells in nanoseconds and stealing $100's of millions of stock value from long term investors.

From your Mother Jones article.....

Designed by the physics nerds and math geniuses known as quants, these programs exploit minute movements and long-term patterns in the markets, buying a stock at $1.00 and selling it at $1.0001, for example.

How did the above example steal stock value from my long-term position?


If you don't understand the bold answer above

No info in your "answer".

A minimal transaction tax would prevent the high-speed traders from robbing you blind.

Still no evidence I've been robbed.

Denial is not a refutation.

Your soundbite isn't evidence

Who do you think they stole the money from?

Still waiting for proof they stole from anyone.

which he expects could raise more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years.

Expects? He expects $200 billion a year?
Expectations from someone who never held a private sector job? LOL!

Goldman made about $32 billion last year.
Morgan Stanley about $8 billion.
JPM about $104 billion.
Bank of America about $89 billion.
Blackstone Group about $6 billion

5 of the largest firms out there, feel free to add any I didn't list, and their combined profits
were about $240 billion. And this moronic tax is going to raise $200 billion? LOL!


The tax plan will include a 0.5% fee on all stock trades

Again, from your article.

buying a stock at $1.00 and selling it at $1.0001, for example.

Taxing the buy and the sale at $0.005 prevents either trade from occurring.
Total tax collected, zero.

If they steal hundreds of millions of dollars in stock value, they are taking some of your money.

Fucking prove it already. Repeating your fact free claim isn't proof.

From your Mother Jones article.....Designed by the physics nerds and math geniuses known as quants, these programs exploit minute movements and long-term patterns in the markets, buying a stock at $1.00 and selling it at $1.0001, for example.
How did the above example steal stock value from my long-term position? Any money that they skimmed lowered your stock's price/value. They did not provide any investment capital, yet took profit. That to me is equivalent to stealing from long term investors.


which Bernie expects to raise more than $2 trillion over the next 10 years.
5 of the largest firms out there, feel free to add any I didn't list, and their combined profits
were about $240 billion. And this moronic tax is going to raise $200 billion? LOL!
U.S. stock trading volume hit a three-year low in 2017 amid near-absent volatility
Average "low" trading volume per day is 6.5b shares x average stock price of $40/sh x 0.005 tax = $1.3b per day just for stocks
The transactions are measured on stocks, bonds, options contracts, futures contracts, derivatives, and commodities.
Lots of money generated even if the volume slows due to the tax.

The tax plan will include a 0.5% fee on all stock trades
Again, from your article. buying a stock at $1.00 and selling it at $1.0001, for example.
Taxing the buy and the sale at $0.005 prevents either trade from occurring.
Total tax collected, zero.
OMG, the $1.00 stock price was just an example. See tax calculation above.

Any money that they skimmed lowered your stock's price/value.

Ummm….the bid/ask spread was $0.999/$1.001
They traded at $1.00 and $1.0001 instead. How did they lower my stock price?

That to me is equivalent to stealing from long term investors.

Yes, I've noticed your ignorance of markets.

Average "low" trading volume per day is 6.5b shares x average stock price of $40/sh x 0.005 tax = $1.3b per day just for stocks

Because a $1.3 billion a day tax will have no impact on trading.....thanks, I was looking for proof of your idiocy.

OMG, the $1.00 stock price was just an example. See tax calculation above.

Ok. $40.00 per share times 100 shares a trade..... $20.00 per trade.
$20.00 per trade times zero trades.....yup, still zero tax collected.

How did they lower my stock price?
ANY money the High-Frequency traders skimmed off the stock market is money that should have added to the value of stocks. You're apparently to stupid to know when you're being scammed. I'm bummed that the SEC allows it, so the laws apparently need to be changed. A transaction tax is a good solution. Here is a list of high-frequency traders, their profit is your loss: An introduction to the HFT industry and its key players - Planet Compliance

Because a $1.3 billion a day tax will have no impact on trading.....thanks, I was looking for proof of your idiocy.
That tax will be offset by a reduction in high-frequency trading and better stock appreciation. If it didn't work all over the world you might have an argument. Financial transaction tax - Wikipedia
Revenue Estimate for US Financial Transaction Tax
Tax base Tax rate Revenue estimate (US$ billion)
US stocks/equities .5% 108–217
US bonds .02% 26–52
US forex spot .01% 8–16
US futures .02% 7–14
US options .5% 4–8
US swaps .015% 23–46
US total 177–354 (US$ billion)

$20.00 per trade times zero trades.....yup, still zero tax collected
Why times zero trades? A round trip buy/sell nets $40 in tax. For long term investors like you and me its nothing, but for those that buy/sell frequently it could affect their profit margin slightly. It would absolutely hammer high-frequency traders.

Thanks for the Wiki link. Any country's tax look good to you?
I loved this one, especially.

They expected 1,500 million Swedish kronor per year, from the fixed income tax, averaged 50 million. Raised about 3% of what they expected. LOL!

And did you see this?

Bond trading fell by 85% in the first week!! Futures trading fell 98% and options trading went away.
Wonder if any jobs were lost, eh?
It was such a success, the tax was eliminated in 1991.

 

[Mike Dwight]

Ugh, 8 replies on international taxes and trade mumbo jumbo? All I learned is that women make most of the money in stocks because they don't think they can throw money around. Whats this junk you guys are talking about, involves a lot of ties and hubris. I made 20 bucks on TD ameritrade. There's some of that.

 

[Rustic]

The governor of Rhode Island has a better plan 3rd and 4th years are free. To ensure you have serious people .

that is not a terrible idea. The downfall is it takes away from 2 year trade and tech schools.

True, far more young Americans are better suited to trade schools than a traditional “college”.
And trade schools put students into the workforce at a much quicker rate and higher paying occupations at a quicker rate also.

 

[Rustic]

I hope to God the President gets to debate these clowns if they are running on this free college stuff. Lets see how middle class people respond to their 401K's and 403B's being robbed by the like of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren. All Trump has to say is, "Well folks.......better plan on working well into your 70's!!"

Yep
That is basically stealing, Why take money from people that have earned it to those that do not deserve it?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Not relevant unless you are going to challenge 18 as a reasonable place to start adulthood and that is an underlying reason to adjust our K-12 system.

seems that is already happening. Being 18 ain't what it used to be. Right now all being 18 gives you is the right to vote and sign contracts legally. Some states are now moving the "smoking age" to 21. There has been talk of moving the voting age to 21.

Clearly we as a society do not really think that 18 year olds are adults, since we limit so much of what they can do legally

There has been talk of moving the voting age to 21.

Dems would never amend the Constitution to raise the voting age.

They are not the ones taking about it.

But as normal the point is a mile above your head.

The line of when someone is an adult is getting more blurry all the time.

We need to choose and age and make all “adult” things effective at that age


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[Toddsterpatriot]

Not relevant unless you are going to challenge 18 as a reasonable place to start adulthood and that is an underlying reason to adjust our K-12 system.

seems that is already happening. Being 18 ain't what it used to be. Right now all being 18 gives you is the right to vote and sign contracts legally. Some states are now moving the "smoking age" to 21. There has been talk of moving the voting age to 21.

Clearly we as a society do not really think that 18 year olds are adults, since we limit so much of what they can do legally

There has been talk of moving the voting age to 21.

Dems would never amend the Constitution to raise the voting age.

They are not the ones taking about it.

But as normal the point is a mile above your head.

The line of when someone is an adult is getting more blurry all the time.

We need to choose and age and make all “adult” things effective at that age


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

They are not the ones taking about it.

Because they don't want to reduce the number of their voters.
So it will never happen.

 

[Rustic]

There is actually a 5th flaw in all of their plans...

They all keep telling folks they will eliminate student debt and make college tuition free. I just want to know who is going to foot the
bill for books, room and board?

The same people that foot the bill for roads, police, fire department, k-12 education...etc...etc...

Other people's kid's education isn't my responsibility

and yet you pay for it anyhow. how do you think the schools in your local area are funded..you are paying for them like everyone else.

Dipshit the thread is on college. Stick your straw man up your ass

what difference does it make, you are still paying for other people's kid's education

It depends on the area, I own a bit over 2200 acres of “Agricultural land” And I pay somewhere between 440~450 dollars a year taxes on that thanks to my accountant.
That might pay for a desk at the school… Maybe. LOL

 

[Rustic]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

How about everyone be responsible adults and pay for their own education?

Bingo!!!
People paying for other people shit is always a bad investment

 

[Rustic]

I want my mortgage paid off Bernie!!! why can't we do that too? I mean fk all debt, why stop at fking college! the most immature man in america.

Because we need more educated people in this country that are productive and less people who post 69,000+ times on an internet messageboard about their freedom being taken away by gay and brown people.

Lol
It has nothing to do with race you fucking retard

 

[RealDave]

What about people who don't go to College?

Can they borrow $100k and not pay it back?

Can they attend a 2 year fuck-fest, all expenses paid?

dimocrap scum are doing a fantastic job of creating even more division in this Country.

Trade schools included.

 

[Rustic]

The issue, in my personal opinion, is that when it comes to education in our country it’s so focused on individualism that the thought of the country coming together to ensure a great education for all people seems foreign and is even regarded as foreign. Saying that we should make quality education a right and that we should try and make education accessible and affordable to all is instantly blasted as being communistic and evil. Why? Trust in government is obviously a big issue and corruption runs deep and so I can understand not wanting it to oversee education on a nationwide level but if we know this is an issue then why do most incumbents get re-elected? There’s no quick fix in my opinion but understanding that an educated society is better for this country than an educated individual is a good first step in my opinion.

Lol
The federal government is completely corrupted, the deep state is proven that for a century plus...

 

[RDD_1210]

I want my mortgage paid off Bernie!!! why can't we do that too? I mean fk all debt, why stop at fking college! the most immature man in america.

Because we need more educated people in this country that are productive and less people who post 69,000+ times on an internet messageboard about their freedom being taken away by gay and brown people.

Lol
It has nothing to do with race you fucking retard

Of course it does. Your entire belief system is based upon it.

 

[Rustic]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

How about everyone be responsible adults and pay for their own education?

It must be nice able to contain your viewpoints to statements that can fit on a bumper sticker.

It must be nice to just nonchalantly pass your personal responsibilities off on others and expect everyone else to take care of you like you're still in diapers.

Socialism 101

 

[rightwinger]

I support a small tax on stock and real estate transactions
Maybe one percent

How is this any different than any other sales tax?

If would cost jobs and raise a small fraction of what you predict.

Typical Conservative dodge on everything

<sob>. But, but.....it will cost jobs

 

[Rustic]

I want my mortgage paid off Bernie!!! why can't we do that too? I mean fk all debt, why stop at fking college! the most immature man in america.

Because we need more educated people in this country that are productive and less people who post 69,000+ times on an internet messageboard about their freedom being taken away by gay and brown people.

Lol
It has nothing to do with race you fucking retard

Of course it does. Your entire belief system is based upon it.

Lol
As a minority I see no racism from day to day.
The divide in this country is not race or financial, it’s urban and rural

 

[rightwinger]

The issue, in my personal opinion, is that when it comes to education in our country it’s so focused on individualism that the thought of the country coming together to ensure a great education for all people seems foreign and is even regarded as foreign. Saying that we should make quality education a right and that we should try and make education accessible and affordable to all is instantly blasted as being communistic and evil. Why? Trust in government is obviously a big issue and corruption runs deep and so I can understand not wanting it to oversee education on a nationwide level but if we know this is an issue then why do most incumbents get re-elected? There’s no quick fix in my opinion but understanding that an educated society is better for this country than an educated individual is a good first step in my opinion.

Lol
The federal government is completely corrupted, the deep state is proven that for a century plus...

DEEP STATE!

 

[Rustic]

There is actually a 5th flaw in all of their plans...

They all keep telling folks they will eliminate student debt and make college tuition free. I just want to know who is going to foot the
bill for books, room and board?

The same people that foot the bill for roads, police, fire department, k-12 education...etc...etc...

They shouldn't be paying for someones education. You know that.

So, you are against all public education including k-12?

This thread is about more free trinkets being offerwd by idiots and I owe your kid nothing and you owe my kid nothing. Odd for a libertarian, you sure do seem to be insinuating a free horse ride.

I am playing the devils advocate here because the claim "I owe your kid nothing and you owe my kid nothing" fails when it comes to K-12 public education. Wherever you live, if you have kids or not, you are paying the for education of other's peoples kids. I have not seen a single person on this forum argue against public K-12 education.

So, the only discussion is really at what point do we stop doing so.

That is why it’s a failure

 

[RealDave]

I actually like the funding mechanism for Bernie's "free college" plan, but with a few tweaks...
Sanders Panders: Four Flaws In Bernie Sanders' Higher Education Plan

1. Lets say that the 1st 2-years of college, including community colleges and trade schools are free, with an emphasis on job training for filling real jobs that need workers.

2. The 2nd 2-years funding are "means tested" and also "grade tested" so that marginal students are weeded out and the wealthy don't need help. Also, "careers that are needed" get more funding than careers that have poor job prospects.

3. Grad school funding is for the brightest and filling needed jobs, such as doctors.

4. The colleges need to control costs and do not get funding for any students that flunk out. Price controls may need to be imposed so that colleges use their "endowment funds" to help students.

What's the downside? Hopefully stopping the high speed traders that don't "invest" but simply skim money from our 401k's and IRA's.

First Two years free at community colleges only.

Last two years by financial need (like now) & schiolarship with a work requirement

Grad school - you are on your own. Doctors make enough to pay off their loans. Many first employments include paying off loans.

I went to school on a National Defense loan (2% interest rate) , Scholarships, some parental help, and I worked a board job. I paid back my loans over a 15 year period.

I went to grad school as a teaching assistance. It cost me nothing & I was paid a little bit.

As for those with loans now, reduce them to 2% but make them pay it back or attached their wages.

 

[Rustic]

The issue, in my personal opinion, is that when it comes to education in our country it’s so focused on individualism that the thought of the country coming together to ensure a great education for all people seems foreign and is even regarded as foreign. Saying that we should make quality education a right and that we should try and make education accessible and affordable to all is instantly blasted as being communistic and evil. Why? Trust in government is obviously a big issue and corruption runs deep and so I can understand not wanting it to oversee education on a nationwide level but if we know this is an issue then why do most incumbents get re-elected? There’s no quick fix in my opinion but understanding that an educated society is better for this country than an educated individual is a good first step in my opinion.

Lol
The federal government is completely corrupted, the deep state is proven that for a century plus...

DEEP STATE!

Yep,
High level civilian federal employees, Accountable To no one.

 

[Mike Dwight]

Ya isn't this junk headed the Other way you guys? It is practically worth nothing to this country to be a Student who wants to be a Doctor. So when Students Plan to spend 8 years of money they don't have to be Medical Doctors and then declare bankruptcy, we created the exempt student loans we know today. De Facto they're not giving you government educations.