Ohio rape case...a slippery slope?

[Quantum Windbag]

Something called "DUE PROCESS OF LAW", NOW

Show me how it was proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that they were guilty of a crime

Show me the reason they were deprived of their right to a jury trial.

There is NO FUCKING WAY THAT A JURY OF THEIR PEERS WAS GOING TO CONVICT ---- NO FUCKING WAY.

.

Given that they actually face the possibility of potential incarceration as adults if they violate their probation, they actually had to waive a right to a jury trial in Ohio. In other words, they were not denied anything.

Bullshit.

All they needed was ONE JUROR -ONE- to declare them not delinquent - one.

.

Their lawyers probably thought they had a better chance with the judge.

They were probably right.

 

[AmyNation]

Given that they actually face the possibility of potential incarceration as adults if they violate their probation, they actually had to waive a right to a jury trial in Ohio. In other words, they were not denied anything.

Bullshit.

All they needed was ONE JUROR -ONE- to declare them not delinquent - one.

.

Their lawyers probably thought they had a better chance with the judge.

They were probably right.

I agree.

Judges tend to be better at seperation the law from emotions, in cases like this that's essential.

 

[Contumacious]

Bullshit.

All they needed was ONE JUROR -ONE- to declare them not delinquent - one.

.

Their lawyers probably thought they had a better chance with the judge.

They were probably right.

I agree.

Judges tend to be better at seperation the law from emotions, in cases like this that's essential.

Well it appears that the defendants were presented fro havinng their day in court because key witnesses were not allowed to testify:




Wests Virginia judge blocks youth testimony in Ohio trial


COLUMBUS, Ohio — A West Virginia judge has rejected requests that three juveniles be called to testify at the Ohio trial of two high school football players charged with raping a 16-year-old girl, a decision one defense attorney says puts his client in “a tough situation.”

The juveniles’ testimony was expected to bolster the players’ defense against charges that they attacked the alleged victim, who is from West Virginia."

.

 

[hoosier88]

Show me how it was proven BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that they were guilty of a crime

Show me the reason they were deprived of their right to a jury trial.

There is NO FUCKING WAY THAT A JURY OF THEIR PEERS WAS GOING TO CONVICT ---- NO FUCKING WAY.

.

(My bold)

...

Bullshit.

The stupid Judge was supposed to provide Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law.

He just declared them delinquent and refused to provided the aforementioned documentation.

Without that information those two kids were subjected to a Kangaroo Court designed to appease the Femi-nazis, the Ohio Talibaners and the NY Times.

Here ya go: from Juvenile - Juvenile Rights in the Criminal Justice System - 5th topic:

"You have the right to a trial.

"At court you will be asked to admit or deny the charges against you. By admitting to the charges you are giving up your right to a trial. When you admit to the charges against you, you give up other rights such as presenting evidence (witnesses) in your favor and cross-examining witnesses against you. By denying the charges, you make the state prove its case. If you do not feel there is good evidence against you, deny the charges and ask for an attorney. You should tell your attorney what evidence is in your favor and what witnesses you have. You do not have the right to a jury trial if you are being charged as a juvenile."

(My bold)

But if you want to pursue an appeal, the perps have 30 days from the end of the trial to go for it. They can ask for attorneys to help file the appeal.

 

[varelse]

They could have requested a trial- it would have meant asking to be charged as adults.

I don't think they wanted that.

 

[Contumacious]

(My bold)

...

Bullshit.

The stupid Judge was supposed to provide Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law.

He just declared them delinquent and refused to provided the aforementioned documentation.

Without that information those two kids were subjected to a Kangaroo Court designed to appease the Femi-nazis, the Ohio Talibaners and the NY Times.

Here ya go: from Juvenile - Juvenile Rights in the Criminal Justice System - 5th topic:

"You have the right to a trial.

"At court you will be asked to admit or deny the charges against you. By admitting to the charges you are giving up your right to a trial. When you admit to the charges against you, you give up other rights such as presenting evidence (witnesses) in your favor and cross-examining witnesses against you. By denying the charges, you make the state prove its case. If you do not feel there is good evidence against you, deny the charges and ask for an attorney. You should tell your attorney what evidence is in your favor and what witnesses you have. You do not have the right to a jury trial if you are being charged as a juvenile."

(My bold)

But if you want to pursue an appeal, the perps have 30 days from the end of the trial to go for it. They can ask for attorneys to help file the appeal.

Yo Hose, not in Ohio



The Ohio General Assembly decided, however, that a juvenile deserves the right to invoke a jury as a fact-finder. R.C. 2152.13(C)(1).


In the Matter of W.Z., 2011 -Ohio- 3238. (Ohio App. Dist.6 06/30/2011)




.

 

[Michelle420]

Bullshit.

The stupid Judge was supposed to provide Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law.

He just declared them delinquent and refused to provided the aforementioned documentation.

Without that information those two kids were subjected to a Kangaroo Court designed to appease the Femi-nazis, the Ohio Talibaners and the NY Times.

Here ya go: from Juvenile - Juvenile Rights in the Criminal Justice System - 5th topic:

"You have the right to a trial.

"At court you will be asked to admit or deny the charges against you. By admitting to the charges you are giving up your right to a trial. When you admit to the charges against you, you give up other rights such as presenting evidence (witnesses) in your favor and cross-examining witnesses against you. By denying the charges, you make the state prove its case. If you do not feel there is good evidence against you, deny the charges and ask for an attorney. You should tell your attorney what evidence is in your favor and what witnesses you have. You do not have the right to a jury trial if you are being charged as a juvenile."

(My bold)

But if you want to pursue an appeal, the perps have 30 days from the end of the trial to go for it. They can ask for attorneys to help file the appeal.

Yo Hose, not in Ohio



The Ohio General Assembly decided, however, that a juvenile deserves the right to invoke a jury as a fact-finder. R.C. 2152.13(C)(1).


In the Matter of W.Z., 2011 -Ohio- 3238. (Ohio App. Dist.6 06/30/2011)




.

They would have been found guilty either way.

 

[Contumacious]

Here ya go: from Juvenile - Juvenile Rights in the Criminal Justice System - 5th topic:

"You have the right to a trial.

"At court you will be asked to admit or deny the charges against you. By admitting to the charges you are giving up your right to a trial. When you admit to the charges against you, you give up other rights such as presenting evidence (witnesses) in your favor and cross-examining witnesses against you. By denying the charges, you make the state prove its case. If you do not feel there is good evidence against you, deny the charges and ask for an attorney. You should tell your attorney what evidence is in your favor and what witnesses you have. You do not have the right to a jury trial if you are being charged as a juvenile."

(My bold)

But if you want to pursue an appeal, the perps have 30 days from the end of the trial to go for it. They can ask for attorneys to help file the appeal.

Yo Hose, not in Ohio



The Ohio General Assembly decided, however, that a juvenile deserves the right to invoke a jury as a fact-finder. R.C. 2152.13(C)(1).


In the Matter of W.Z., 2011 -Ohio- 3238. (Ohio App. Dist.6 06/30/2011)




.

They would have been found guilty either way.

So says an individual who is very prejudiced.

.

 

[Michelle420]

Yo Hose, not in Ohio



The Ohio General Assembly decided, however, that a juvenile deserves the right to invoke a jury as a fact-finder. R.C. 2152.13(C)(1).


In the Matter of W.Z., 2011 -Ohio- 3238. (Ohio App. Dist.6 06/30/2011)




.

They would have been found guilty either way.

So says an individual who is very prejudiced.

.

If by that you mean I don't believe in rape....ok.

 

[hoosier88]

...

Here ya go: from Juvenile - Juvenile Rights in the Criminal Justice System - 5th topic:

"You have the right to a trial.

"At court you will be asked to admit or deny the charges against you. By admitting to the charges you are giving up your right to a trial. When you admit to the charges against you, you give up other rights such as presenting evidence (witnesses) in your favor and cross-examining witnesses against you. By denying the charges, you make the state prove its case. If you do not feel there is good evidence against you, deny the charges and ask for an attorney. You should tell your attorney what evidence is in your favor and what witnesses you have. You do not have the right to a jury trial if you are being charged as a juvenile."

(My bold)

But if you want to pursue an appeal, the perps have 30 days from the end of the trial to go for it. They can ask for attorneys to help file the appeal.

Yo Hose, not in Ohio



The Ohio General Assembly decided, however, that a juvenile deserves the right to invoke a jury as a fact-finder. R.C. 2152.13(C)(1).

In the Matter of W.Z., 2011 -Ohio- 3238. (Ohio App. Dist.6 06/30/2011)



.

You can read through the above finding @ In re W.Z., (Ohio 2011) - Ohio Supreme Court - Status: 2011-Ohio-3238 - Docket Number: S-09-036 - July 02, 2011 - June 30, 2011 - Partes: Handwork - vLex. What I see is that the case was returned to the lower court for retrial. In the particular case, the objection was that automatic finding of sexual predator needed a trial by jury first, which means as an adult.

Good luck with that - I think that if these perps go into adult court, they will be crucified. & a lot of the testimony will become public record. (Juvenile proceedings are usually sealed.) The young woman will get to suffer some more. But their counsel - for the two young men - may want to pursue that.

 

[Contumacious]

Here ya go: from Juvenile - Juvenile Rights in the Criminal Justice System - 5th topic:

"You have the right to a trial.

"At court you will be asked to admit or deny the charges against you. By admitting to the charges you are giving up your right to a trial. When you admit to the charges against you, you give up other rights such as presenting evidence (witnesses) in your favor and cross-examining witnesses against you. By denying the charges, you make the state prove its case. If you do not feel there is good evidence against you, deny the charges and ask for an attorney. You should tell your attorney what evidence is in your favor and what witnesses you have. You do not have the right to a jury trial if you are being charged as a juvenile."

(My bold)

But if you want to pursue an appeal, the perps have 30 days from the end of the trial to go for it. They can ask for attorneys to help file the appeal.

Yo Hose, not in Ohio



The Ohio General Assembly decided, however, that a juvenile deserves the right to invoke a jury as a fact-finder. R.C. 2152.13(C)(1).

In the Matter of W.Z., 2011 -Ohio- 3238. (Ohio App. Dist.6 06/30/2011)



.

You can read through the above finding @ In re W.Z., (Ohio 2011) - Ohio Supreme Court - Status: 2011-Ohio-3238 - Docket Number: S-09-036 - July 02, 2011 - June 30, 2011 - Partes: Handwork - vLex. What I see is that the case was returned to the lower court for retrial. In the particular case, the objection was that automatic finding of sexual predator needed a trial by jury first, which means as an adult.

Good luck with that - I think that if these perps go into adult court, they will be crucified. & a lot of the testimony will become public record. (Juvenile proceedings are usually sealed.) The young woman will get to suffer some more. But their counsel - for the two young men - may want to pursue that.

yes, indeed. The West Virginia Court refused to compel Key Defense Witnesses to appear, So the defendants were denied the right to present a defense.

.

 

[hoosier88]

From #191 above:

"yes, indeed. The West Virginia Court refused to compel Key Defense Witnesses to appear, So the defendants were denied the right to present a defense."

W VA? What does the W VA court have to do with an appeal to the OH Supreme Court?

 

[Jarlaxle]

This case is really about sadism and what constitutes sadistic pleasure. r.

Yes, I concur.

Guys that have been banging that girl for years now needed a notary public present and working to confirm her consent.

The song has come true! Relevant verse from Meat Loaf's Where The Rubber Meets The Road (Music & lyrics written by Sarah Durkee & Paul Jacobs, performed by Meat Loaf & the Neverland Express, recorded on album Welcome To The Neighborhood.)

Ya say "girl, you're a beauty".
But I'm no beast.
I got a little contract right here...
See, you can slam on the brakes.
Anytime you got the stick.
Even if we're in 4th gear.
Cop in the front seat.
Lawyer in the back seat.
Gettin' it on videotape.
Got a shrink in the bed, lord.
Sittin' on the headboard.
Swearin' that we both got raped.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Their lawyers probably thought they had a better chance with the judge.

They were probably right.

I agree.

Judges tend to be better at seperation the law from emotions, in cases like this that's essential.

Well it appears that the defendants were presented fro havinng their day in court because key witnesses were not allowed to testify:




Wests Virginia judge blocks youth testimony in Ohio trial


COLUMBUS, Ohio — A West Virginia judge has rejected requests that three juveniles be called to testify at the Ohio trial of two high school football players charged with raping a 16-year-old girl, a decision one defense attorney says puts his client in “a tough situation.”

The juveniles’ testimony was expected to bolster the players’ defense against charges that they attacked the alleged victim, who is from West Virginia."

.

I like your link.

No legal case was cited from anywhere in the country to support the argument that the three West Virginia juveniles can be compelled to testify in Ohio, Hancock County Judge Ronald Wilson ruled Wednesday in an order obtained by The Associated Press.

You really need to get over your paranoid conspiracy theory.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Bullshit.

The stupid Judge was supposed to provide Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law.

He just declared them delinquent and refused to provided the aforementioned documentation.

Without that information those two kids were subjected to a Kangaroo Court designed to appease the Femi-nazis, the Ohio Talibaners and the NY Times.

Here ya go: from Juvenile - Juvenile Rights in the Criminal Justice System - 5th topic:

"You have the right to a trial.

"At court you will be asked to admit or deny the charges against you. By admitting to the charges you are giving up your right to a trial. When you admit to the charges against you, you give up other rights such as presenting evidence (witnesses) in your favor and cross-examining witnesses against you. By denying the charges, you make the state prove its case. If you do not feel there is good evidence against you, deny the charges and ask for an attorney. You should tell your attorney what evidence is in your favor and what witnesses you have. You do not have the right to a jury trial if you are being charged as a juvenile."

(My bold)

But if you want to pursue an appeal, the perps have 30 days from the end of the trial to go for it. They can ask for attorneys to help file the appeal.

Yo Hose, not in Ohio



The Ohio General Assembly decided, however, that a juvenile deserves the right to invoke a jury as a fact-finder. R.C. 2152.13(C)(1).


In the Matter of W.Z., 2011 -Ohio- 3238. (Ohio App. Dist.6 06/30/2011)




.

Which just proves what I said, they had to waive that right, and the judge had to be satisfied that they were doing it for the right reasons.

 

[Contumacious]

From #191 above:

"yes, indeed. The West Virginia Court refused to compel Key Defense Witnesses to appear, So the defendants were denied the right to present a defense."

W VA? What does the W VA court have to do with an appeal to the OH Supreme Court?

Three defense witnesses reside in WVa . They were subject to subpoena pursuant to WV RCP 28(d).

Depositions for Use in Foreign Jurisdictions

Whenever the deposition of any person is to be taken in this State pursuant to the laws of another state or of the United States or of another country for use in proceedings there, any court having general civil jurisdiction in the county wherein the deponent resides or is employed or transacts his business in person may, upon petition, make an order directing issuance of a subpoena as provided in Rule 45, in aid of the taking of the deposition."

.

 

[Contumacious]

My bad sex wasn’t rape

The outcry over a recent "Girls" episode startled me. What happened to a woman's sexual agency?

BY ANNA MARCH

The outcry about the “Girls” episode truly startled me. I was surprised when several bright writers whose work I admire labeled the scene rape, because to me and to so many other bright writers whose work I admire, it so clearly was not rape. Categorizing it as such is an intellectually unsound discrediting of women’s power. Natalia was not raped and to call the sex she consented to rape is to demean actual victims of sexual assault and devalue the crime. Further, it is paternalistic in its approach to women, as though women are helpless beings incapable of voicing their wants, and, absent violence and/or threats of violence, can’t or won’t say no. If we want to argue that women are so limited by the patriarchy that they can’t say no, how do we counter the arguments that women can’t handle jobs in the military or working as police officers? If they can’t escape the narrow roles that a male-dominated society allows them (which some offer as a reason why a woman can’t say no in bed), how will they be able to embrace their power as a soldier or law enforcement officer?

.