Ohio passes Stand Your Ground bill

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh boo-fucking-hoo, Emelia. Leave it to a contemptible democrat like you to make such a racist and insulting remark implying that now white people are going to run rampant shooting innocent blacks and minorities. You don't give a FLYING CRAP about all of the innocent people harmed and killed every day because they were barred from defending themselves from the people you protect.

You know how Democrats are. Whenever the tide is against them and they want to get their way, throw the race card on the table.

Democrats made the same prediction when our CCW laws were first passed.
Democrats made the same prediction when they allowed us to be armed in our vehicles.
Democrats made the same prediction when they removed the law that your firearm must be holstered and in a compartment.

The problem is they just don't like any law that benefits the victim.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Andre Hill was complying with orders.

We have to wait until an investigation is complete to see the outcome. The officer was fired and will be brought up on charges if he did anything wrong. That's the way it's supposed to work. In that particular case, the officer thought he seen a gun in his other hand. Turns out he didn't have a gun. But again, I'll wait to pass judgement until the investigation is complete.

 

[pknopp]

Andre Hill was complying with orders.

We have to wait until an investigation is complete to see the outcome. The officer was fired and will be brought up on charges if he did anything wrong. That's the way it's supposed to work. In that particular case, the officer thought he seen a gun in his other hand. Turns out he didn't have a gun. But again, I'll wait to pass judgement until the investigation is complete.

He was where he legally allowed to be and he was following the officers orders. The officer murdered him.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

He was where he legally allowed to be and he was following the officers orders. The officer murdered him.

That could be, we don't know what happened exactly. But the case is an anomaly and happens very rarely.

 

[toobfreak]

You know how Democrats are.
Democrats made the same prediction when our CCW laws were first passed.
Democrats made the same prediction when they allowed us to be armed in our vehicles.
Democrats made the same prediction when they removed the law that your firearm must be holstered and in a compartment.

I know how democrats are. Democrats make lots of predictions. Not one of them have ever come true.

 

[Rigby5]

The police likely are the single most violent group in the whole country, and are the greatest source of crime.
All dictatorship take over through the use of police violence, and the US likely has always been at least partly a dictatorship, and most certainly is one now.
As evidence, all we have to do is look how minorities have been treated, like Blacks as slaves, natives massacred, kids drafted for illegal wars, Prohibition, the War on Drugs, parking tickets, 3 Strikes, etc.
None of it is remotely legal.
Police do not care, as long as they are paid.

You don't make the laws. If you think something is illegal, that's your opinion, not a fact. Laws are written by our representatives. You don't get to make your own laws in this country. They are written in stone.

What is "written in stone" is the Constitution, not mere legislation.
Legislators don't get to make any old laws they want either.
For example, the federal government has zero jurisdiction over weapons, drugs, or any of the thing the federal government is illegally taking over.
When government violates basics like that, it is time for torches and pitchforks.
Happens about ever 300 years in even the best of countries, so we should not be too embarrassed.

 

[Rigby5]

None, because when someone black kills someone white they are arrested and headed to prison.

History tells a different story, OJ.

Was OJ arrested? A racist tried to plant evidence on OJ, that is the only reason he isn't in prison.

Thats a lie----no one planted evidence on OJ.

Sure they did, did you even watch the trial?

OJ did the crime--and even the gloves were his. HIS racist PREJUDICE black jury allowed this violent criminal to get away with murdering two innocent people.

How many racist white juries have allowed whites to get away with raping, beating, lynching and murdering black folks? Btw the glove didn't fit.

His racist black inept attorney played on their racism and PREJUDICE and lack of morals and became a household name (it had nothing to do with if the gloves don't fit, you have to acquit nonsense.) I watched the trial -----and listen to the jurists comments after the trial. some of them a-holes are even admitting that they got OJ off because he was black and they did it in retaliation for a drunk black beligerent man who was being shown on the news at the time being knocked back down by cops when refusing to be arrested by cops--sorry famous case just don't remember his name right now. I watched the black male jurist give the black liberation fist pump to OJ and I watched the black jurists make up false nonsense about white jurists like the one nicknamed strawberry shortcake stepping on their toes in order to have them removed.

Stop playing the race card----------its dishonest.

Turtle Shit, you are just a racist, dishonest hag. Johnnie Cochran was world known before the OJ trial. Racist like you sit back when you see injustice bring done to black folks, take the Rodney King trial for instance i bet you claimed he deserved and made every excuse in the world to defend those cops. A person just like you sat on the jury in the Emmitt Till case and allowed JW Milam and Roy Bryant to walk free. So you can go to hell with that OJ bullshit.

OH boy, I'm racist for knowing the facts? Hun, you lie to yourself and others trying to justify blacks attacking cops and others. It's sick and sorry idiot, but this goes beyond just being racist on your part but so prejudice that you can't even see the truth.

I research idiot---everything. I researched the Oj trial--hell I watched most all of it. OJ's jury was like you racist, prejudice, and to stupid to see the long term consequence or care. Hell two of them admitted that they let OJ off because of Rodney KIng years later. Cochran was shit for attorney, but he figured out that STUPID PREJUDICE ( not to be confused with the term racist) would let off a violent celebrity murderer if he were the same color as they.

You want to talk KING? Violent habitual drug/druggy arrested both before and after for driving while intoxicated puttting everyone's life in danger (including other blacks)........he was arrested with two other people in the car. They compiled and the cops didn't have to hit them, King drunk and HIgh AGAIN, refused. The video that the media showed over and over and over had been altered by the media in order manipulate fools such as yourself. The real video was shown in court hence why the cops were cleared but I think you are to prejudice and ignorant to ever accept the truth.

You sit and you toss out the race card when confronted with the facts--there is nothing that I have said that isn't easily verifiable...and I have corrected you multiple time but all you do is cover your ears and scream racist and call me names so let me call you a few in return. You are a moron to stupid to grasp facts---you are just a PREDIJUCE idiot so wrapped in trying to justify attacking cops which puts everyone in danger that you will never admit any facts no matter how blatant.

You are tool and fool....and nothing more.

Oh you may want to try figure the differnece between being a racist and being predijuice is..I know that they have been rewritting these terms over the last few decades----but you may want to try to learn how stupid you have to be to allow your color to hide the truth from you.

It is always illegal to beat on people with clubs like they did to Rodney King.
Did you ever see images?
Anyone who could do that is a monster.

 

[Rigby5]

That is totally and completely wrong.
Police do not exist in the constitution or any legal document.
They are just ordinary people who are paid paid to do a job like anyone else.
Any law that some legislator would try to pass that would change that, would be totally against the constitution.

police have no authority to beat anyone except in defense if they are being attacked.
Beating people to force compliance is totally illegal and the cop then has NO protection under the law, at all. A cop is only a cop as long as they follow the law. Beating someone who has no weapon, makes the cop a criminal in commission of any armed felony and NEEDS to be shot.

Shooting a man on top of a woman would be murder because there is no evidence it is necessary.
But if you tell the man to get off the woman and instead they draw gun, then you can and do shoot them, even if they are a cop.

You seem to think a uniform is immunity, and it is not.
It is the other way around.
By accepting our tax money, police are required to be subservient to us.

Our US Constitution is for federal, not city or state. Cities decide they need a police force, and our representatives give them legal authority over all of us, so yes, they have immunity to things we as citizens would get arrested for.

Police do have the authority to beat a person for non-compliance. They are not ordinary people once they have that uniform and badge on. What do you want them to do with a suspect that is not complying to their orders, say "Okay, maybe you can comply next time we see you!"

Totally wrong.
Since the 14th amendment, the constitution has been reinterpreted to also prohibit state or local violations of the individual rights implied by the US constitution.
Our representatives do NOT at all have "legal authority over us".
The ONLY get their legal authority FROM us, with OUR permission.
So they have inferior delegated rights from us, and are not superior to us in any way.
Nor can they legally legislate how they want, and if they violate rights, it is our responsibility and duty to correct them. That is true of ALL the public employees were authorize to conduct OUR political business for US.
The only reason representatives have some legal immunity is because we did not want anyone trying to use prosecution of representatives to be used to intimidate them. But they are supposed to be held to even higher standards then by legislative internal policing.

Police do not have authority to beat anyone unless there is no other way to defend themselves.
Police most certainly ARE ordinary people. And like ordinary people, if someone tries to commit a crime against you, you do NOT beat them. You restrain them with as little harm as possible, so there is assurance they will get in front of a judge, who THEN decides if they need to be punished. It is illegal when police punish the person ahead of time.
Police can call for as much back as needed, so NEVER need to ever resort to beating anyone, ever.

 

[Rigby5]

Bullshit, there are only 3 streets in that little complex so that is some bullshit.

What difference does that make? It doesn't matter if there were two streets or twenty. He was behind the buildings and didn't know the address. So he continued to walk to the front of the building to get the address, walked back, and that's when the little hood attacked him.

So of he jumped out and attacked how did he exchange words with him before the attack?

In a hostile situation what person has a gun on them and when they come face to face with the person they are following pulls out their cellphone.

I don't even understand what you're asking here. What does the cellphone have to do with it. Zimmerman was going to this truck to drive to the store. As a CCW holder, he had his gun with him which was a common thing for him to do. He spotted Martin and called the police as a suspicious character who fit the description of suspects who were breaking into homes in that complex.

Totally wrong.
It is clear from the maps that Zimmerman ran to get in front of Martin, to cut him off.
Martin delayed once out of sight, by making a cellphone call to his girl friend.
Not something a person in ambush would have done.

Zimmerman could not have gotten an address where he went, between the back yards of the houses.

Zimmerman is lying with this "enactment".
The dispatcher never asked for him to tell them where Martin went, and he did not drive the SUV away as he claimed. We heard his heavy breathing, so he was running, not driving. Zimmerman is a liar. He is lying because it was illegal for him to run around in front of Martin and cut him off like he did.
We know where the SUV was left, and we know the shooting happened far away from it.
So Zimmerman was not going back to the SUV as he claimed.

 

[Rigby5]

And this law states that if someone is threatening you where you are legally permitted to be, you can shoot them in self defense.

Yes it does, but that doesn't apply to authority. When it comes to CCW's and authority, you must surrender to all demands by that authority.

Wrong.
In a democratic republic, the ONLY source of any legal authority comes from the defense of individual rights.
That is not police, if police are violating rights.
You must NEVER surrender to illegal demands by people violating rights.

 

[Rigby5]

Not when they are trying to kill you for being where you are legally permitted to be.

Nobody is going to kill you if you comply with their orders. If police approach you with a gun, you just do as they say and you have nothing to worry about. It may be a case of mistaken identity. You don't know. You just do as they say and let them figure it out once you are handcuffed.

While I agree it is best to be as compliant as possible since what was legal and what was abusive can more safely be determined later.
But in the case of Breonna Taylor, the police illegal shot her 7 times even though they had no probable cause to even conduct the raid, made no attempt to serve the warrant, and fired randomly at unarmed people.

 

[Rigby5]

Andre Hill was complying with orders.

We have to wait until an investigation is complete to see the outcome. The officer was fired and will be brought up on charges if he did anything wrong. That's the way it's supposed to work. In that particular case, the officer thought he seen a gun in his other hand. Turns out he didn't have a gun. But again, I'll wait to pass judgement until the investigation is complete.

That is where you argument for compliance breaks down totally.
Andre HIll was on his own property, and had violated no law, so bringing the cop up on charges accomplishes absolutely nothing for Andre Hill.
And even if he did have a gun, which he did not, that legally does not at all give any cop the right to shoot anyone.

The proof it was 1st degree murder is that after shooting him, they handcuffed the unconscious body and provided no first aid, to ensure he would die.

 

[Turtlesoup]

None, because when someone black kills someone white they are arrested and headed to prison.

History tells a different story, OJ.

Was OJ arrested? A racist tried to plant evidence on OJ, that is the only reason he isn't in prison.

Thats a lie----no one planted evidence on OJ.

Sure they did, did you even watch the trial?

OJ did the crime--and even the gloves were his. HIS racist PREJUDICE black jury allowed this violent criminal to get away with murdering two innocent people.

How many racist white juries have allowed whites to get away with raping, beating, lynching and murdering black folks? Btw the glove didn't fit.

His racist black inept attorney played on their racism and PREJUDICE and lack of morals and became a household name (it had nothing to do with if the gloves don't fit, you have to acquit nonsense.) I watched the trial -----and listen to the jurists comments after the trial. some of them a-holes are even admitting that they got OJ off because he was black and they did it in retaliation for a drunk black beligerent man who was being shown on the news at the time being knocked back down by cops when refusing to be arrested by cops--sorry famous case just don't remember his name right now. I watched the black male jurist give the black liberation fist pump to OJ and I watched the black jurists make up false nonsense about white jurists like the one nicknamed strawberry shortcake stepping on their toes in order to have them removed.

Stop playing the race card----------its dishonest.

Turtle Shit, you are just a racist, dishonest hag. Johnnie Cochran was world known before the OJ trial. Racist like you sit back when you see injustice bring done to black folks, take the Rodney King trial for instance i bet you claimed he deserved and made every excuse in the world to defend those cops. A person just like you sat on the jury in the Emmitt Till case and allowed JW Milam and Roy Bryant to walk free. So you can go to hell with that OJ bullshit.

Of course I watched the trial.............I played hooky from school so much that year that I beat the school record and I still passed and there was nothing they could do to prevent it. I had a doctors note for migraines and I am a really good test taker so when they demanded that only my test scores would count for my grades, I was in nirvana. I watched as OJ and his lawyers lied repeatedly about everything from the cut on OJs hand, to the fake show with the gloves, to his lying about owning that pair of shoes--it was all lies and not even good lies. The prosecutors lost the case when they allowed Cochrain and crew to chose a racist idiotic pro-black jury that was never ever going to convict one of their own celebrities. It was the first really public case where using a psychologist for the defense really cost a huge trail and set a blatantly guilty man free. It was the second point that I realized that blacks could be and often are the biggest moronic prejudice (not to be confused with racist ) pieces of shit out there. I watched them set a murderer free just because he was black and his victims were white...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That is where you argument for compliance breaks down totally.
Andre HIll was on his own property, and had violated no law, so bringing the cop up on charges accomplishes absolutely nothing for Andre Hill.
And even if he did have a gun, which he did not, that legally does not at all give any cop the right to shoot anyone.

If he had a gun in his hand, sure it does. I'm sure a guy doesn't walk around with a gun in his hand. If he had a gun when approached by police, they would mean he pulled it out when police addressed him which you cannot do; at least if you want to live.

He was not on his property. He was on the property of a friend. As for any law he violated, we still don't know that. Police don't walk up to random strangers and harass them for no reason.

 

[pknopp]

That is where you argument for compliance breaks down totally.
Andre HIll was on his own property, and had violated no law, so bringing the cop up on charges accomplishes absolutely nothing for Andre Hill.
And even if he did have a gun, which he did not, that legally does not at all give any cop the right to shoot anyone.

If he had a gun in his hand, sure it does. I'm sure a guy doesn't walk around with a gun in his hand. If he had a gun when approached by police, they would mean he pulled it out when police addressed him which you cannot do; at least if you want to live.

He was not on his property. He was on the property of a friend. As for any law he violated, we still don't know that. Police don't walk up to random strangers and harass them for no reason.

And yet they did.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

While I agree it is best to be as compliant as possible since what was legal and what was abusive can more safely be determined later.
But in the case of Breonna Taylor, the police illegal shot her 7 times even though they had no probable cause to even conduct the raid, made no attempt to serve the warrant, and fired randomly at unarmed people.

They had a no-knock warrant. To me (as far as we know) it seemed like police trying too hard to make a bust. A guy she was associated with was a known drug dealer, and they believed he was using her address to get drugs through mail. I also read where two of the detectives in that case were fired today.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wrong.
In a democratic republic, the ONLY source of any legal authority comes from the defense of individual rights.
That is not police, if police are violating rights.
You must NEVER surrender to illegal demands by people violating rights.

Trust me, I had to go through a ten hour class of this, much of it discussing laws of being in possession of a CCW. Police do have authority over citizens whether you like it or not, or whether you agree with it or not. If you believe a police officer is violating your rights, you comply, and take up the issue after everything is settled with his superiors. Anytime you challenge the police on the street, you're going to end up hurt or dead, and there is no judge or jury in the world that will convict an officer for using deadly force when you threatened his life.

 

[Rigby5]

None, because when someone black kills someone white they are arrested and headed to prison.

History tells a different story, OJ.

Was OJ arrested? A racist tried to plant evidence on OJ, that is the only reason he isn't in prison.

Thats a lie----no one planted evidence on OJ.

Sure they did, did you even watch the trial?

OJ did the crime--and even the gloves were his. HIS racist PREJUDICE black jury allowed this violent criminal to get away with murdering two innocent people.

How many racist white juries have allowed whites to get away with raping, beating, lynching and murdering black folks? Btw the glove didn't fit.

His racist black inept attorney played on their racism and PREJUDICE and lack of morals and became a household name (it had nothing to do with if the gloves don't fit, you have to acquit nonsense.) I watched the trial -----and listen to the jurists comments after the trial. some of them a-holes are even admitting that they got OJ off because he was black and they did it in retaliation for a drunk black beligerent man who was being shown on the news at the time being knocked back down by cops when refusing to be arrested by cops--sorry famous case just don't remember his name right now. I watched the black male jurist give the black liberation fist pump to OJ and I watched the black jurists make up false nonsense about white jurists like the one nicknamed strawberry shortcake stepping on their toes in order to have them removed.

Stop playing the race card----------its dishonest.

Turtle Shit, you are just a racist, dishonest hag. Johnnie Cochran was world known before the OJ trial. Racist like you sit back when you see injustice bring done to black folks, take the Rodney King trial for instance i bet you claimed he deserved and made every excuse in the world to defend those cops. A person just like you sat on the jury in the Emmitt Till case and allowed JW Milam and Roy Bryant to walk free. So you can go to hell with that OJ bullshit.

Of course I watched the trial.............I played hooky from school so much that year that I beat the school record and I still passed and there was nothing they could do to prevent it. I had a doctors note for migraines and I am a really good test taker so when they demanded that only my test scores would count for my grades, I was in nirvana. I watched as OJ and his lawyers lied repeatedly about everything from the cut on OJs hand, to the fake show with the gloves, to his lying about owning that pair of shoes--it was all lies and not even good lies. The prosecutors lost the case when they allowed Cochrain and crew to chose a racist idiotic pro-black jury that was never ever going to convict one of their own celebrities. It was the first really public case where using a psychologist for the defense really cost a huge trail and set a blatantly guilty man free. It was the second point that I realized that blacks could be and often are the biggest moronic prejudice (not to be confused with racist ) pieces of shit out there. I watched them set a murderer free just because he was black and his victims were white...

How does a cut on OJ's hand increase guilt in any way?
The gloves were not found inside OJ's house or on his person, so there is no way to connect them to him.
Whether or not OJ lied about the shoes, we only saw evidence he may have owned the pair until long after the trial was over, so there was no evidence.
There was not a shred of evidence presented by the prosecution.

 

[Rigby5]

That is where you argument for compliance breaks down totally.
Andre HIll was on his own property, and had violated no law, so bringing the cop up on charges accomplishes absolutely nothing for Andre Hill.
And even if he did have a gun, which he did not, that legally does not at all give any cop the right to shoot anyone.

If he had a gun in his hand, sure it does. I'm sure a guy doesn't walk around with a gun in his hand. If he had a gun when approached by police, they would mean he pulled it out when police addressed him which you cannot do; at least if you want to live.

He was not on his property. He was on the property of a friend. As for any law he violated, we still don't know that. Police don't walk up to random strangers and harass them for no reason.

He was on private property, with permission.
Which is more than the police had.
And so far only one cop ever claimed he had a gun, so it is doubtful.
But if he had a gun, it would still be illegal for the police to have shot him.
He could have had a valid reason for having the gun out, such as chasing away a burglar.

 

[Rigby5]

While I agree it is best to be as compliant as possible since what was legal and what was abusive can more safely be determined later.
But in the case of Breonna Taylor, the police illegal shot her 7 times even though they had no probable cause to even conduct the raid, made no attempt to serve the warrant, and fired randomly at unarmed people.

They had a no-knock warrant. To me (as far as we know) it seemed like police trying too hard to make a bust. A guy she was associated with was a known drug dealer, and they believed he was using her address to get drugs through mail. I also read where two of the detectives in that case were fired today.

The warrant and the way is was served was bogus, but also when there is a single shot through the door, the legal response is not to shoot everyone in sight.
They deliberately fired at Breonna Taylor even though she was unarmed and had done nothing illegal.
That is impossible to justify. They also kept firing, and then offered no first aid.