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All these situations were kicked down the road to make them election issues and it isn't even being talked about by either party, a sure sign that they are going to deal with it quietly in the lame duck session.
It does boggle the mind that these issues haven't been brought up in the debates.
well if obama loses i guess you won,t have to worry about thatBullshit!
That is the GOP plan, Obama's plan is:
33% tax rate jumps to 36%
35% tax rate jumps to 39.6%
Wrong, Obama wants to raise taxes to pay off the deficit, you can't do that by only taxing 1 group and lowering taxes on everyone else while spending more and more and more and more.
Obama can't say getting the budget under control is his goal then spend more and not tax the vast majority of Americans.
well that true and it shame they did. But liberals at same time would not helpful to obama when trying to deal with conservatives on debt celing. It a promblem on both sides.to be fair neither side cover themselves in glory over debt celing crisis. Neither wanted to find a middle way and that sad overall.
The deal offered to republicans would have been pretty sweet for them except for the Bush tax cuts being allowed to expire for the rich, that one point and only that point was why they walked away and we are now faced with this mess.
well that true and it shame they did. But liberals at same time would not helpful to obama when trying to deal with conservatives on debt celing. It a promblem on both sides.The deal offered to republicans would have been pretty sweet for them except for the Bush tax cuts being allowed to expire for the rich, that one point and only that point was why they walked away and we are now faced with this mess.
Not really since the whole fight was a manufactured crisis where republicans ended up overplaying their hand the result being no budget and this cliff. Had it been a real crisis things might have been different but some were just not going to be played for suckers and give without getting something at least equally valuable in return. There is not a single person in congress, R or D, that did not know that the whole situation was economic terrorism on the part of republicans and they acted accordingly.
well that maybe true but we have to look to future now and i hope whoever is president is able to get congress to work together for the american peopleThe nail was first driven by the republican controlled congress that made the tax cuts temporary with an expiration date.
well that true and it shame they did. But liberals at same time would not helpful to obama when trying to deal with conservatives on debt celing. It a promblem on both sides.
Not really since the whole fight was a manufactured crisis where republicans ended up overplaying their hand the result being no budget and this cliff. Had it been a real crisis things might have been different but some were just not going to be played for suckers and give without getting something at least equally valuable in return. There is not a single person in congress, R or D, that did not know that the whole situation was economic terrorism on the part of republicans and they acted accordingly.
Do you want me to get the video of when Obama did it to Bush? Was Obama doing "economic terrorism" or was it different because Obama would have caved in if his vote were put to the test?
And for the record we were downgraded now multiple times due to Obama's spending, not the debt ceiling being held up. That’s right, the issue is how will the US pay off its debts.
The nail was first driven by the republican controlled congress that made the tax cuts temporary with an expiration date.
Not really since the whole fight was a manufactured crisis where republicans ended up overplaying their hand the result being no budget and this cliff. Had it been a real crisis things might have been different but some were just not going to be played for suckers and give without getting something at least equally valuable in return. There is not a single person in congress, R or D, that did not know that the whole situation was economic terrorism on the part of republicans and they acted accordingly.
Do you want me to get the video of when Obama did it to Bush? Was Obama doing "economic terrorism" or was it different because Obama would have caved in if his vote were put to the test?
And for the record we were downgraded now multiple times due to Obama's spending, not the debt ceiling being held up. Thats right, the issue is how will the US pay off its debts.
Every time the debt ceiling came up to be raised there was symbolic opposition from both parties but no one ever actually tried to hold it hostage until 2011. The downgrade was explained not by simple spending but by our political inability to deal with serious fiscal issues in a timely and rational manner.
Do you want me to get the video of when Obama did it to Bush? Was Obama doing "economic terrorism" or was it different because Obama would have caved in if his vote were put to the test?
And for the record we were downgraded now multiple times due to Obama's spending, not the debt ceiling being held up. Thats right, the issue is how will the US pay off its debts.
Every time the debt ceiling came up to be raised there was symbolic opposition from both parties but no one ever actually tried to hold it hostage until 2011. The downgrade was explained not by simple spending but by our political inability to deal with serious fiscal issues in a timely and rational manner.
Correct, hence the fiscal cliff... We were downgraded not because of the hold up on the debt ceiling but because even with the hold up a crap budget was still passed... Do you understand yet?
It's really basic stuff... Try not spinning it for a second.
Every time the debt ceiling came up to be raised there was symbolic opposition from both parties but no one ever actually tried to hold it hostage until 2011. The downgrade was explained not by simple spending but by our political inability to deal with serious fiscal issues in a timely and rational manner.
Correct, hence the fiscal cliff... We were downgraded not because of the hold up on the debt ceiling but because even with the hold up a crap budget was still passed... Do you understand yet?
It's really basic stuff... Try not spinning it for a second.
A budget was passed? When?
10% tax rate jumps to 15%
25% tax rate jumps to 28%
28% tax rate jumps to 31%
33% tax rate jumps to 36%
35% tax rate jumps to 39.6%
55 billion cut from domestic programs
55 billion cut from defense programs
Social Security payroll tax goes from 4.2% to 6.2%
Estate tax top rate jumps from 35% to 55%
Capital gains top rate jumps from 15% to 20%
Dividends will be taxed at regular income tax rates
Child tax credit is cut by 50% to 500.00
Marriage penalty tax returns
Alternative minimum tax hits many more
Extended UE benefits expire
Medicare payments to Dr's to be cut by 30%
All kick in at midnight December 31st. This is a disaster in the making. Some economists have speculated that this will kill growth by 1%. Since we're barely growing at 1% now this may very well stall the economy completely and send us spiraling back.
"All the representatives and senators who voted for the tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 also voted for their expiration.
That's how they were designed."
"In early 2001, Paul ONeill, the new secretary of the Treasury for a new president, began work on a plan for radical tax reform. He wanted simpler forms and fewer deductions, which would make it easy for people to prepare their taxes and cost the government less to process them. He presented a 5-inch-thick binder of research to a senior White House official. Dont ever let that see the light of day, ONeill says he was told. George W. Bush didnt want to deliver tax reform. He wanted to deliver the tax cuts hed promised as a candidate.
He did, in 2001 and then again in 2003. But the kinds of cuts hed promisedlarge oneswould create unsustainable deficits after 10 years, the Congressional Budget Office projected. So they were designed to expire in a decade, at least on paper. It was baloney, says ONeill, who publicly supported them at the time. Republicans never intended to let the cuts lapse. It was put in there so they could make a fiscal claim that it wouldnt damage us. It had nothing to do with reality.
Economists expect a 5% contraction in the economy once we go off the fiscal cliff. We have an economy that's contracting to begin with and is down to 1.3%. We can't absorb a 5% contraction.
Obama's fault? I bet Boehner laughs every single time he hears someone blame his can kicking on the president.
He certainly is part of this situation as is Reid but this disaster is in part on the horizion because this country has no leadership.
All these situations were kicked down the road to make them election issues and it isn't even being talked about by either party, a sure sign that they are going to deal with it quietly in the lame duck session.
It does boggle the mind that these issues haven't been brought up in the debates.
to be fair neither side cover themselves in glory over debt celing crisis. Neither wanted to find a middle way and that sad overall.
The deal offered to republicans would have been pretty sweet for them except for the Bush tax cuts being allowed to expire for the rich, that one point and only that point was why they walked away and we are now faced with this mess.
Correct, hence the fiscal cliff... We were downgraded not because of the hold up on the debt ceiling but because even with the hold up a crap budget was still passed... Do you understand yet?
It's really basic stuff... Try not spinning it for a second.
A budget was passed? When?
Sorry, not a budget... Spending occurred.
In the end it's amazing to watch people defend Obama as if he really just wanted to raise taxes on the very group of people he gave tens of billions of dollars to in his stimulus, the rich. Obama and Dems not agreeing to re-pass the Bush era tax cuts over the rich retaining their tax rate was holding the country "hostage" just as much as it was for Republicans.
The rich paying more would cover no meaningful amount of the deficit, like none... Yet Obama/Dems felt it was important enough to downgrade us over it only to cave in moments before.
Obama lied when he said he would cut the deficit in half back in 2007 and he is lying today when he claims he will cut the deficit. Just like Republicans are lying about it.
Every time the debt ceiling came up to be raised there was symbolic opposition from both parties but no one ever actually tried to hold it hostage until 2011. The downgrade was explained not by simple spending but by our political inability to deal with serious fiscal issues in a timely and rational manner.
Correct, hence the fiscal cliff... We were downgraded not because of the hold up on the debt ceiling but because even with the hold up a crap budget was still passed... Do you understand yet?
It's really basic stuff... Try not spinning it for a second.
A budget was passed? When?
The nail was first driven by the republican controlled congress that made the tax cuts temporary with an expiration date.
A budget was passed? When?
Sorry, not a budget... Spending occurred.
In the end it's amazing to watch people defend Obama as if he really just wanted to raise taxes on the very group of people he gave tens of billions of dollars to in his stimulus, the rich. Obama and Dems not agreeing to re-pass the Bush era tax cuts over the rich retaining their tax rate was holding the country "hostage" just as much as it was for Republicans.
The rich paying more would cover no meaningful amount of the deficit, like none... Yet Obama/Dems felt it was important enough to downgrade us over it only to cave in moments before.
Obama lied when he said he would cut the deficit in half back in 2007 and he is lying today when he claims he will cut the deficit. Just like Republicans are lying about it.
Quit trying to deflect, this entire cliff situation was the direct result of the new teabagger congress thinking that they could run roughshod over the entire budget process, a process that usually occurred quietly because even in the best of years it involved a lot of good faith negotiation and compromise between the parties and both houses. Republicans have turned it into a very public and ideologically bound quagmire doomed to failure year after year. We got downgraded because we are not able to vote for water when our collective asses are on fire, not because of some idea that Obama is big spender which he is definitely not.
