ObamaCare- Mandate is Constitutional as a Tax, etc.

[KissMy]

In 1986, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor law, which requires hospitals to admit all who arrive at the emergency room and treat them without regard for their ability to pay.

In essence, we had federally mandated national health care signed into law in 1986. What we did not have is a rational way to pay for the mandated health care. We should seek to repeal the federally mandated EMTAL[A], a deeply immoral proposition if I ever heard one.

How is it constitutional for someone to be able to demand services & then legally not pay for them? That is like allowing people to come into your store & take what they want & not have to pay. You would only collect from the ones who were willing to pay. You prices would have to be way higher for those willing to pay in order to stay in business.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Americans are evenly divided, 46 percent to 46 percent, on whether they support the Supreme Court's decision to uphold President Barack Obama's health care reform on Thursday, according to a new Gallup poll. Nearly 80 percent of Democrats agree with the court, compared to 45 percent of independents and only 13 percent of Republicans. Americans evenly divided on court

 

[Flopper]

If that is what you are saying you should be able to explain how Obamacare is going to accomplish what you are advocating for.

That's easy. The Congressional Budget Office projects that 32 million more people will have insurance by 2019. ACA requires that a number of prevent services be provide free of charge such as Colonoscopies and mammograms.

One more time.

How does Obamacare accomplish removing financial roadblocks that make it hard for people to access relatively inexpensive healthcare? Since the CBO esitmates that insurance premiums will go up under Obamacare pointing out that people will be covered, even if the numbers actually work in the long run, is not going to count toward what you you claim to want. IOn fact, it is directly opposed to what you claim you want, which is why I oppose it.



By the way, the ACA doesn't require preventative care of any type.

For starters the expanded Medicaid will provide coverage for millions that have no coverage now.

Premiums may be higher but tax credits will make the cost of insurance lower for millions. For a family of 4 with spouses age 45 and a $60,000 income, a policy will cost just over $14,000. Tax credits of $9300 will lower the yearly premium cost to $4700. The family can also take a tax deduction for the premium which lowers the cost even further and this does not include any contribution from the employer.

You're wrong about ACA not requiring preventive care.
Covered Preventive Services for Adults
Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm one-time screening for men of specified ages who have ever smoked
Alcohol Misuse screening and counseling
Aspirin use for men and women of certain ages
Blood Pressure screening for all adults
Cholesterol screening for adults of certain ages or at higher risk
Colorectal Cancer screening for adults over 50
Depression screening for adults
Type 2 Diabetes screening for adults with high blood pressure
Diet counseling for adults at higher risk for chronic disease
HIV screening for all adults at higher risk
Immunization vaccines for adults--doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Herpes Zoster
Human Papillomavirus
Influenza (Flu Shot)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Meningococcal
Pneumococcal
Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis
Varicella
Learn more about immunizations and see the latest vaccine schedules.
Obesity screening and counseling for all adults
Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling for adults at higher risk
Tobacco Use screening for all adults and cessation interventions for tobacco users
Syphilis screening for all adults at higher risk

Covered Preventive Services for Children
Alcohol and Drug Use assessments for adolescents
Autism screening for children at 18 and 24 months
Behavioral assessments for children of all ages
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Blood Pressure screening for children
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Cervical Dysplasia screening for sexually active females
Congenital Hypothyroidism screening for newborns
Depression screening for adolescents
Developmental screening for children under age 3, and surveillance throughout childhood
Dyslipidemia screening for children at higher risk of lipid disorders
Ages: 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Fluoride Chemoprevention supplements for children without fluoride in their water source
Gonorrhea preventive medication for the eyes of all newborns
Hearing screening for all newborns
Height, Weight and Body Mass Index measurements for children
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Hematocrit or Hemoglobin screening for children
Hemoglobinopathies or sickle cell screening for newborns
HIV screening for adolescents at higher risk
Immunization vaccines for children from birth to age 18 —doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:
Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis
Haemophilus influenzae type b
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Human Papillomavirus
Inactivated Poliovirus
Influenza (Flu Shot)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Meningococcal
Pneumococcal
Rotavirus
Varicella
Learn more about immunizations and see the latest vaccine schedules.
Iron supplements for children ages 6 to 12 months at risk for anemia
Lead screening for children at risk of exposure
Medical History for all children throughout development
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Obesity screening and counseling
Oral Health risk assessment for young children
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years.
Phenylketonuria (PKU) screening for this genetic disorder in newborns
Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling and screening for adolescents at higher risk
Tuberculin testing for children at higher risk of tuberculosis
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Vision screening for all children

Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov

 

[dblack]

In 1986, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor law, which requires hospitals to admit all who arrive at the emergency room and treat them without regard for their ability to pay.

In essence, we had federally mandated national health care signed into law in 1986. What we did not have is a rational way to pay for the mandated health care. We should seek to repeal the federally mandated EMTAL[A], a deeply immoral proposition if I ever heard one.

How is it constitutional for someone to be able to demand services & then legally not pay for them? That is like allowing people to come into your store & take what they want & not have to pay. You would only collect from the ones who were willing to pay. You prices would have to be way higher for those willing to pay in order to stay in business.

Absolutely, and well said. Reagan was the last Republican I ever voted for and I came to deeply regret it - for this reason, among others. EMTALA was the writing on the while for nationalized health care and ultimately led to where we are now.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

is windbagh still holding a personal hijack thread?


sigh

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

In 1986, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor law, which requires hospitals to admit all who arrive at the emergency room and treat them without regard for their ability to pay.

In essence, we had federally mandated national health care signed into law in 1986. What we did not have is a rational way to pay for the mandated health care. We should seek to repeal the federally mandated EMTAL[A], a deeply immoral proposition if I ever heard one.

How is it constitutional for someone to be able to demand services & then legally not pay for them? That is like allowing people to come into your store & take what they want & not have to pay. You would only collect from the ones who were willing to pay. You prices would have to be way higher for those willing to pay in order to stay in business.

No sane, compassionate, and reasonable person wants to live in a society you have anything to do with forming.

 

[KissMy]

In 1986, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor law, which requires hospitals to admit all who arrive at the emergency room and treat them without regard for their ability to pay.

In essence, we had federally mandated national health care signed into law in 1986. What we did not have is a rational way to pay for the mandated health care. We should seek to repeal the federally mandated EMTAL[A], a deeply immoral proposition if I ever heard one.

How is it constitutional for someone to be able to demand services & then legally not pay for them? That is like allowing people to come into your store & take what they want & not have to pay. You would only collect from the ones who were willing to pay. You prices would have to be way higher for those willing to pay in order to stay in business.

No sane, compassionate, and reasonable person wants to live in a society you have anything to do with forming.

If you believe people calling 911 to take a $400 ambulance ride to the $600 Emergency Room visit for an aspirin or pregnancy test because it's free to them instead of spending their $5 at the store is a great society then you are TRULY FUCKING INSANE!!!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

QWB then agrees with the Roberts' decision.

End of story.

Wow, wrong again.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How can a Supreme Court decision not be constitutional?

If it doesn't follow the constitution.

He did not ask if I agreed with the decision, he asked if the decision of the court was constitutional. As far as I know it is impossible for the Supreme Court to make a ruling that is not constitutional, even if it is wrong.

This was wrong, but the decision was constitutional.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For starters the expanded Medicaid will provide coverage for millions that have no coverage now.

For starters, that only applies if the states opt in to the new program. Did you miss that in all the excitement yesterday?

Premiums may be higher but tax credits will make the cost of insurance lower for millions. For a family of 4 with spouses age 45 and a $60,000 income, a policy will cost just over $14,000. Tax credits of $9300 will lower the yearly premium cost to $4700. The family can also take a tax deduction for the premium which lowers the cost even further and this does not include any contribution from the employer.

If the cost of health care goes up it is not more affordable. Government subsidies do not make something affordable, it just makes it look affordable to the uninformed.

Are you uninformed?

You're wrong about ACA not requiring preventive care.
Covered Preventive Services for Adults
Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm one-time screening for men of specified ages who have ever smoked
Alcohol Misuse screening and counseling
Aspirin use for men and women of certain ages
Blood Pressure screening for all adults
Cholesterol screening for adults of certain ages or at higher risk
Colorectal Cancer screening for adults over 50
Depression screening for adults
Type 2 Diabetes screening for adults with high blood pressure
Diet counseling for adults at higher risk for chronic disease
HIV screening for all adults at higher risk
Immunization vaccines for adults--doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Herpes Zoster
Human Papillomavirus
Influenza (Flu Shot)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Meningococcal
Pneumococcal
Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis
Varicella
Learn more about immunizations and see the latest vaccine schedules.
Obesity screening and counseling for all adults
Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling for adults at higher risk
Tobacco Use screening for all adults and cessation interventions for tobacco users
Syphilis screening for all adults at higher risk

Covered Preventive Services for Children
Alcohol and Drug Use assessments for adolescents
Autism screening for children at 18 and 24 months
Behavioral assessments for children of all ages
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Blood Pressure screening for children
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Cervical Dysplasia screening for sexually active females
Congenital Hypothyroidism screening for newborns
Depression screening for adolescents
Developmental screening for children under age 3, and surveillance throughout childhood
Dyslipidemia screening for children at higher risk of lipid disorders
Ages: 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Fluoride Chemoprevention supplements for children without fluoride in their water source
Gonorrhea preventive medication for the eyes of all newborns
Hearing screening for all newborns
Height, Weight and Body Mass Index measurements for children
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Hematocrit or Hemoglobin screening for children
Hemoglobinopathies or sickle cell screening for newborns
HIV screening for adolescents at higher risk
Immunization vaccines for children from birth to age 18 —doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:
Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis
Haemophilus influenzae type b
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Human Papillomavirus
Inactivated Poliovirus
Influenza (Flu Shot)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Meningococcal
Pneumococcal
Rotavirus
Varicella
Learn more about immunizations and see the latest vaccine schedules.
Iron supplements for children ages 6 to 12 months at risk for anemia
Lead screening for children at risk of exposure
Medical History for all children throughout development
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Obesity screening and counseling
Oral Health risk assessment for young children
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years.
Phenylketonuria (PKU) screening for this genetic disorder in newborns
Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling and screening for adolescents at higher risk
Tuberculin testing for children at higher risk of tuberculosis
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Vision screening for all children

Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov

Those are not covered by the ACA, the government is lying to you. You can search every single page of the ACA and not see a single one of those things mentioned anywhere.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

For starters the expanded Medicaid will provide coverage for millions that have no coverage now.

For starters, that only applies if the states opt in to the new program. Did you miss that in all the excitement yesterday?

Premiums may be higher but tax credits will make the cost of insurance lower for millions. For a family of 4 with spouses age 45 and a $60,000 income, a policy will cost just over $14,000. Tax credits of $9300 will lower the yearly premium cost to $4700. The family can also take a tax deduction for the premium which lowers the cost even further and this does not include any contribution from the employer.

If the cost of health care goes up it is not more affordable. Government subsidies do not make something affordable, it just makes it look affordable to the uninformed.

Are you uninformed?

You're wrong about ACA not requiring preventive care.
Covered Preventive Services for Adults
Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm one-time screening for men of specified ages who have ever smoked
Alcohol Misuse screening and counseling
Aspirin use for men and women of certain ages
Blood Pressure screening for all adults
Cholesterol screening for adults of certain ages or at higher risk
Colorectal Cancer screening for adults over 50
Depression screening for adults
Type 2 Diabetes screening for adults with high blood pressure
Diet counseling for adults at higher risk for chronic disease
HIV screening for all adults at higher risk
Immunization vaccines for adults--doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Herpes Zoster
Human Papillomavirus
Influenza (Flu Shot)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Meningococcal
Pneumococcal
Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis
Varicella
Learn more about immunizations and see the latest vaccine schedules.
Obesity screening and counseling for all adults
Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling for adults at higher risk
Tobacco Use screening for all adults and cessation interventions for tobacco users
Syphilis screening for all adults at higher risk

Covered Preventive Services for Children
Alcohol and Drug Use assessments for adolescents
Autism screening for children at 18 and 24 months
Behavioral assessments for children of all ages
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Blood Pressure screening for children
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Cervical Dysplasia screening for sexually active females
Congenital Hypothyroidism screening for newborns
Depression screening for adolescents
Developmental screening for children under age 3, and surveillance throughout childhood
Dyslipidemia screening for children at higher risk of lipid disorders
Ages: 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Fluoride Chemoprevention supplements for children without fluoride in their water source
Gonorrhea preventive medication for the eyes of all newborns
Hearing screening for all newborns
Height, Weight and Body Mass Index measurements for children
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Hematocrit or Hemoglobin screening for children
Hemoglobinopathies or sickle cell screening for newborns
HIV screening for adolescents at higher risk
Immunization vaccines for children from birth to age 18 —doses, recommended ages, and recommended populations vary:
Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertussis
Haemophilus influenzae type b
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis B
Human Papillomavirus
Inactivated Poliovirus
Influenza (Flu Shot)
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Meningococcal
Pneumococcal
Rotavirus
Varicella
Learn more about immunizations and see the latest vaccine schedules.
Iron supplements for children ages 6 to 12 months at risk for anemia
Lead screening for children at risk of exposure
Medical History for all children throughout development
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Obesity screening and counseling
Oral Health risk assessment for young children
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years.
Phenylketonuria (PKU) screening for this genetic disorder in newborns
Sexually Transmitted Infection (STI) prevention counseling and screening for adolescents at higher risk
Tuberculin testing for children at higher risk of tuberculosis
Ages: 0 to 11 months, 1 to 4 years, 5 to 10 years, 11 to 14 years, 15 to 17 years.
Vision screening for all children

Preventive Services Covered Under the Affordable Care Act | HealthCare.gov

Those are not covered by the ACA, the government is lying to you. You can search every single page of the ACA and not see a single one of those things mentioned anywhere.

states will be in charge.

end of story

 

[Inthemiddle]

How can a Supreme Court decision not be constitutional?

If it doesn't follow the constitution.

The Supreme Court is granted the power by the constitution to be the final arbiter of questions federal law. This makes Supreme Court decisions constitutionally inerrant.

 

[Liability]

How can a Supreme Court decision not be constitutional?

If it doesn't follow the constitution.

The Supreme Court is granted the power by the constitution to be the final arbiter of questions federal law. This makes Supreme Court decisions constitutionally inerrant.

Quote it.

You are in fact incorrect.

That is not what the Constitution says.

It is a power claimed by the SCOTUS and arguably implied by the Constitution. But the Constitution absolutely doesn't say that.

And it wouldn't be true anyway.

Jut as each branch has checks on it, so too the Judicial Branch can be overridden via appropriate legislation or by the Amendment of the Constitution itself.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

How can a Supreme Court decision not be constitutional?

If it doesn't follow the constitution.

The Supreme Court is granted the power by the constitution to be the final arbiter of questions federal law. This makes Supreme Court decisions constitutionally inerrant.

I almost agree with you.

SCOTUS decisions are not inerrant, if they were Dred Scott would still be the law of the land. They are not even the final arbiter, if they were we would not have an income tax. They are, however, by default, constitutional.

 

[NYcarbineer]

How can a Supreme Court decision not be constitutional?

If it doesn't follow the constitution.

That's nonsensical. The Supreme Court decides constitutionality.

 

[novasteve]

So according to the "logic" of the majority, otherwise unconstitutional things could in effect be banned or mandated so long as the consequences are a "tax".

The Supreme court overturned the federal gun free school law under the commerce clause, now all congress has to do is say that if you bring a gun to a school zone, you will face a million dollar tax, and if they don't pay the tax, they will be jailed just like as if there were a criminal penalty for violating the law. So the result will be the same. Jail.

I wonder if liberals think this over. Because conservatives could "Tax" gay men to discourage unhealthy homosexual behaviors that have health and financial consequences. So long as it's a "Tax" it will be constitutional.

 

[NYcarbineer]

TAx increase for all except the leeches. Yay team.

Which of your taxes go up under the bill?

 

[Stephanie]

TAx increase for all except the leeches. Yay team.

Which of your taxes go up under the bill?

you people are going to play this game

 

[NYcarbineer]

And don't forget. This takes 500 bilion dollars out of medicare for the elderly. The people who need the most health care are going to get less. And, this health care has a 15 member death panel.

Hands off Willow's Medicare!!! lol, you can't make this shit up.

 

[NYcarbineer]

TAx increase for all except the leeches. Yay team.

Which of your taxes go up under the bill?

you people are going to play this game

I want you or willow or anyone to specifically name the tax of YOURS that is going to go up.

For once why don't you people be honest?