Obamacare fines and penalties about to kick in for those who didn't join

[Iceweasel]

I don't think there's any conservative alive that doesn't want the tax system overhauled. More like tossed out and starting over with a few sheets of paper.

So here's the problem. You ask someone if they want "the tax system overhauled", and they will say, "OH HELLZ YEAH!"

That's a throwaway phrase that is absolutely meaningless. It is used by the propagandists for their brainless audience.

But ask "any conservative alive" if they want to get rid of the mortgage interest deduction or child tax credit, and see what happens.

That wouldn't exactly be an overhaul but ask them if they would consider lower taxes for all and shrinking the size and scope of government.

 

[g5000]

Yes, less taxes are less money coming in. Duh. The fact that the government isn't structured to spend less when income goes down is a HUGE problem. You either raise taxes or borrow more or both. It's fiscally irresponsible.

You are almost there, but you still don't quite get it.

As I said in post 69, even if the government is trimmed down to the bare essentials, we would still have people of identical incomes paying different amounts of tax.

Understand?

Your mortgage interest deduction would mean you were not paying your full tax burden, and that means someone else would have to pay more to make up the difference.

 

[Iceweasel]

And yet the government does make the guy next door pay for your mortgage interest deduction and your child tax credits.

We demand it do that. We scream like hippies when someone suggests we stop this extortion.

Speak for yourself. I'm not the one demanding to have a bloated overgrown government.

 

[Iceweasel]

Yes, less taxes are less money coming in. Duh. The fact that the government isn't structured to spend less when income goes down is a HUGE problem. You either raise taxes or borrow more or both. It's fiscally irresponsible.

You are almost there, but you still don't quite get it.

As I said in post 69, even if the government is trimmed down to the bare essentials, we would still have people of identical incomes paying different amounts of tax.

Understand?

Your mortgage interest deduction would mean you were not paying your full tax burden, and that means someone else would have to pay more to make up the difference.

No, you don't get it. First of all, I payed my house off 22 years ahead of time when all those we going upside down and getting foreclosed on. No one is paying shit for me. But I said earlier we need a simpler system. Understand?

 

[g5000]

I don't think there's any conservative alive that doesn't want the tax system overhauled. More like tossed out and starting over with a few sheets of paper.

So here's the problem. You ask someone if they want "the tax system overhauled", and they will say, "OH HELLZ YEAH!"

That's a throwaway phrase that is absolutely meaningless. It is used by the propagandists for their brainless audience.

But ask "any conservative alive" if they want to get rid of the mortgage interest deduction or child tax credit, and see what happens.

That wouldn't exactly be an overhaul but ask them if they would consider lower taxes for all and shrinking the size and scope of government.

Again, "lower taxes" is an utterly meaningless phrase unless you get specific. "Lower taxes" can mean "a huge fucking deficit", which is what Bush gave us with his "lower taxes".

You have inhaled a metric ton of smoke which has concealed the plain fact that people of identical incomes are not paying equal taxes. We have an incredibly unlevel playing field.

Ban all tax expenditures, and we would have $1.2 trillion in revenues we currently do not have. That would not only wipe out the deficit, it would provide a half trillion dollar surplus.

THEN you could lower taxes without running up a deficit. Understand?

And the playing field would be level.

 

[Antares]

Nww I'm laughing, you did indeed, you even went so far as to say most major economists believed the very same thing.

 

[g5000]

And yet the government does make the guy next door pay for your mortgage interest deduction and your child tax credits.

We demand it do that. We scream like hippies when someone suggests we stop this extortion.

Speak for yourself. I'm not the one demanding to have a bloated overgrown government.

You are going to have a very difficult time proving I am demanding a bloated overgrown government.

 

[g5000]

Yes, less taxes are less money coming in. Duh. The fact that the government isn't structured to spend less when income goes down is a HUGE problem. You either raise taxes or borrow more or both. It's fiscally irresponsible.

You are almost there, but you still don't quite get it.

As I said in post 69, even if the government is trimmed down to the bare essentials, we would still have people of identical incomes paying different amounts of tax.

Understand?

Your mortgage interest deduction would mean you were not paying your full tax burden, and that means someone else would have to pay more to make up the difference.

No, you don't get it. First of all, I payed my house off 22 years ahead of time when all those we going upside down and getting foreclosed on. No one is paying shit for me. But I said earlier we need a simpler system. Understand?

There is no simpler system than one which bans tax expenditures (deductions, exemptions, credits, etc.).

 

[SwimExpert]

That's exactly 8% of yearly income...which is almost perfectly the amount that the government expects you to pay for health insurance unless you're on entitlement programs.

Who the fuck is the government to expect me to pour 8% of my money down the drain on something useless to me?

 

[Stephanie]

That's exactly 8% of yearly income...which is almost perfectly the amount that the government expects you to pay for health insurance unless you're on entitlement programs.

wow, he speaks of the Guberment as a separate UNIT of people in the country.

And here I always thought is WE THE PEOPLE

people thinking that is where we are Screwed and just might well start calling the elected asses, yes Master

 

[SwimExpert]

What if I wanted to save that 8% and put it into my retirement? What if I wanted to use that 8% of income to buy a car to get me back and forth to work? What if I wanted to donate it to St. Jude's to help fund treatment of sick children whose families still can't afford the expensive Obamacare cancer treatments?

 

[Roadrunner]

- You pay a heavy tax fine if you don't have kids.

- You pay another heavy tax fine if you don't have a mortgage.

- You pay another tax fine if you don't buy the right kind of refrigerator, or the right car, or get your electricity from the right source.

False on every single point. What you're referring to, is tax incentives, wherein one receives a deduction from their tax liability, if one has kids, a mortgage or buys an energy efficient car.

There is no increase in tax liability is one does NOT. One's tax liability is determined by the tax bracket which is realized by one's income level. At that point, one's tax liability is established.

Deductions from such are merely incentives.


obamaScare, literally INCREASES one's tax liability BEYOND their bracketed liability for having failed to purchase health insurance.

You're merely attempting to deceitfully rationalize that fact, through fraudulent means in an attempt to influence the ignorant.

"Incentives" are welfare too.

Any government subsidy or payment to any corporation or person, for anything other than goods or services received, should be illegal.

 

[Roadrunner]

- You pay a heavy tax fine if you don't have kids.

- You pay another heavy tax fine if you don't have a mortgage.

- You pay another tax fine if you don't buy the right kind of refrigerator, or the right car, or get your electricity from the right source.

False on every single point. ABSOLUTELY FALSE... .

Nope, it is all true. I guess you have never paid taxes.

If you don't have a mortgage, you pay considerably more taxes than someone who earns an identical income who does have a mortgage. You are punished for not having a mortgage.

Simple fact.

Sorry about that!

I paid cash for my house, and it cost me out the ass.

 

[g5000]

How on Earth is a tax deduction an expenditure?

G5000 has developed some kind of hair brained idea that all money belongs to the government and that by not taxing it away from you, the government is spending money and giving you a handout.

Straw man fallacy.

See post 69. The "I get to keep more of my money" argument fails because that money you are keeping actually comes out of someone else's pocket. It is socialist wealth redistribution.

 

[g5000]

I think it would be awesome that instead of automatically getting a deduction if we had to go to our neighbors and ask them to write a check to subsidize our mortgage interest deduction and our child tax credit.

Let's see how far you would get then.

Instead, we have a system where that subsidy is taken from your neighbors by force.

 

[SwimExpert]

How on Earth is a tax deduction an expenditure?

G5000 has developed some kind of hair brained idea that all money belongs to the government and that by not taxing it away from you, the government is spending money and giving you a handout.

Straw man fallacy.

See post 69. The "I get to keep more of my money" argument fails because that money you are keeping actually comes out of someone else's pocket. It is socialist wealth redistribution.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Anticipated this bogus argument. See post 69. What you rubes fail to see is that gift comes at someone else's expense.

If it was just a matter of getting to keep more of your own money, you would have a point. But someone else has to cough up more money to pay for you to keep more of your money. That is the other half of the equation you are kept in the dark about.

You want lower tax rates? Eliminate all tax expenditures. Then two miracles happen.

First, everyone earning identical incomes will be paying identical taxes at a lower tax rate than we have now.

Second, instant campaign finance reform. There is no point in giving incumbents campaign cash to put exemptions, deductions, and credits in the tax code if they are banned from doing so.

Comrade Jake5000, I once walked down an allley, The vato down a ways looked shady, so I took the $50 in my wallet and stuck it in my sock. Sure enough, the bastard pulled a gun and demanded my wallet. I gave it to him and he ran.

NOW, according to your "logic," the $50 in my sock was a gift given to me by the thief. His failure to take it made it an expenditure by him, to me.

And THIS folks, is actually how Communists think.

 

[Antares]

How on Earth is a tax deduction an expenditure?

G5000 has developed some kind of hair brained idea that all money belongs to the government and that by not taxing it away from you, the government is spending money and giving you a handout.

Straw man fallacy.

See post 69. The "I get to keep more of my money" argument fails because that money you are keeping actually comes out of someone else's pocket. It is socialist wealth redistribution.

No it doesn't, the money I get to keep is money I earned.

It came out of my boss's pocket and into my bank account.

The money the Gov takes from me is coming put of my pocket.

I have no idea how you got such a high opinion of yourself....

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

...

So where was I.

Ah, yes.

You insisted the government reward and punish certain behaviors. You get punished for not having a mortgage.

Nonsense.

You get punished for not having kids.

Nonsense...

You get punished for not buying the right car or the right refrigerator and many other consumer products. You get punished for not buying the right kind of electricity!

Nonsense...

I can't believe they even came up with that one. scary individual there

we tried to WARN them but they poo pooed it like some are now.

Such is the nature of evil... .

 

[Nyvin]

That's exactly 8% of yearly income...which is almost perfectly the amount that the government expects you to pay for health insurance unless you're on entitlement programs.

Who the fuck is the government to expect me to pour 8% of my money down the drain on something useless to me?

It's only "useless" until you break an arm or develop cancer or have a kidney stone. If you take a gamble and wait until those things happen and then rely on ER care for whatever you can get you basically become an expense for other tax payers to handle. If you're going to take that gamble then, under ACA, you pre-pay a SMALL portion of what could be the results of your gamble.