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How on Earth is a tax deduction an expenditure?
It is what it is. Deductions and credits and exemptions are all lumped under "tax expenditures" in the budget. They cost $1.2 trillion a year.
It's called an expenditure because if those deductions and credits and exemptions did not exist, the government would take in an additional $1.2 trillion. Every year.
There would be no deficit.
But because they DO exist, they are a $1.2 trillion expense, and we have deficit spending and higher tax rates. Everyone has to pay higher tax rates to pay for those gifts that people take in the form of deductions, credits, and exemptions. And since no one would tolerate the even higher rates it would take to completely balance out that $1.2 trillion expense, we have to borrow a lot of it.
And every one of them is government behavioral engineering.
And every one of them is a penalty for those who do not behave way the government intends them to behave.
You didn't buy a house? You are going to pay higher taxes.
You didn't have kids? You are going to pay higher taxes.
You didn't buy this refrigerator? You are going to pay higher taxes.
You didn't buy health insurance? You are going to pay higher taxes.
Who do you think told the government to run their operation this way?I own a restaraunt.
Do you think I could explain to the IRS that my revenue would be higher if I charged $2 per meal, but that since I didn't actually charge that extra $2 per meal that I should get to deduct a loss of $2 for each meal from my taxes that they would buy that?
I'll say it again, if I ran my business the way the government runs their books, I'd be in jail.
One of my kids is lucky to make 30k a year. The cheapest health insurance he can find in the exchanges, even factoring "subsidies" will cost him about 200 bucks a month in premiums plus a lot of out-of-pocket expenses and deductibles. The fine/penalty/tax will cost him about 750 bucks. The math dictates that he's better off paying cash on-demand to the growing population of health professionals that are taking cash and shunning insurance, while refusing to participate in the government's latest income extraction scam.
$200 a month? Big fucking deal.
My parents will be paying $1200 a month beginning in January . Glad I got that TRICARE
If your parents are healthy, they might be better off doing what my kid is doing...at least till they get forced into Medicare.
It was called CHAMPUS in my day.
What do people who have no insurance do now?What will your kid do if he gets into an auto accident and requires a lot of medical care? Or if he gets really sick, or needs surgery?
Who do you think told the government to run their operation this way?I own a restaraunt.
Do you think I could explain to the IRS that my revenue would be higher if I charged $2 per meal, but that since I didn't actually charge that extra $2 per meal that I should get to deduct a loss of $2 for each meal from my taxes that they would buy that?
I'll say it again, if I ran my business the way the government runs their books, I'd be in jail.
WE DID!!!
This is my whole point. We demanded the government penalize people for not buying certain commmercial products. It was no leap at all to add another penalty for not buying health insurance.
Deductions, credits, and exemptions are a way to redistribute the cost of government from one group to another group. If you get a deduction, credit, or exemption, that cost has to be made up for by someone else. You are no different than someone who gets an Obamaphone. In fact, you are getting much, much, much more value than an Obamaphone from the government.
The guy who didn't get a mortgage has to pay more than you. That's who is paying for your mortgage interest deduction.
...
So where was I.
Ah, yes.
You insisted the government reward and punish certain behaviors. You get punished for not having a mortgage.
Nonsense.
You get punished for not having kids.
Nonsense...
You get punished for not buying the right car or the right refrigerator and many other consumer products. You get punished for not buying the right kind of electricity!
Nonsense...
This is the message you give the government when you demand behavioral engineering programs like mortgage interest deductions, child tax credits, equipment depreciation deductions, employer sponsored health insurance exemptions, and so forth.How on Earth is a tax deduction an expenditure?
It is what it is. Deductions and credits and exemptions are all lumped under "tax expenditures" in the budget. They cost $1.2 trillion a year.
It's called an expenditure because if those deductions and credits and exemptions did not exist, the government would take in an additional $1.2 trillion. Every year.
There would be no deficit.
But because they DO exist, they are a $1.2 trillion expense, and we have deficit spending and higher tax rates. Everyone has to pay higher tax rates to pay for those gifts that people take in the form of deductions, credits, and exemptions. And since no one would tolerate the even higher rates it would take to completely balance out that $1.2 trillion expense, we have to borrow a lot of it.
And every one of them is government behavioral engineering.
And every one of them is a penalty for those who do not behave in the intended way.
.....because ALL money belongs to the Government....
Yes. Where did you get that from?A tax break is a tax expenditure?
Yes. This is news to you?
Anticipated this bogus argument. See post 69. What you rubes fail to see is that gift comes at someone else's expense.Deductions, credits, and exemptions are a way to redistribute the cost of government from one group to another group. If you get a deduction, credit, or exemption, that cost has to be made up for by someone else. You are no different than someone who gets an Obamaphone. In fact, you are getting much, much, much more value than an Obamaphone from the government.
The guy who didn't get a mortgage has to pay more than you. That's who is paying for your mortgage interest deduction.
Oh boy, there it is.. the old "every dollar we don't take from you is a gift" mentality.
<facepalm>
Nope. I have not admitted that.This is the message you give the government when you demand behavioral engineering programs like mortgage interest deductions, child tax credits, equipment depreciation deductions, employer sponsored health insurance exemptions, and so forth.How on Earth is a tax deduction an expenditure?
It is what it is. Deductions and credits and exemptions are all lumped under "tax expenditures" in the budget. They cost $1.2 trillion a year.
It's called an expenditure because if those deductions and credits and exemptions did not exist, the government would take in an additional $1.2 trillion. Every year.
There would be no deficit.
But because they DO exist, they are a $1.2 trillion expense, and we have deficit spending and higher tax rates. Everyone has to pay higher tax rates to pay for those gifts that people take in the form of deductions, credits, and exemptions. And since no one would tolerate the even higher rates it would take to completely balance out that $1.2 trillion expense, we have to borrow a lot of it.
And every one of them is government behavioral engineering.
And every one of them is a penalty for those who do not behave in the intended way.
.....because ALL money belongs to the Government....
Don't try and dodge it now, you already admitted YOU beleve all money is the Govs
I don't think there's any conservative alive that doesn't want the tax system overhauled. More like tossed out and starting over with a few sheets of paper.Take two next door neighbors who earn identical incomes.
Now divide up the cost of government and determine their equal share. You can move the cost of government up and down, but if they earn identical incomes, they should each be paying an equal amount in taxes.
But that is not the way it is in America. We have an insane system where two people earning identical incomes pay radically different amounts of tax.
So pick whatever arbitrary cost of government you like. Shrink government down to a teeny tiny size, it doesn't matter. There is still going to be a cost of government.
So let's say each neighbor's share of the cost is $500. The total bill for both neighbors is $1000.
But wait. Mr. Smith has a mortgage and Mr. Jones doesn't. Mr. Smith also has kids and bought an energy saving refrigerator. So Mr. Smith gets a big gift from the government. He does not have to pay his share of taxes. He only has to pay $200 in tax.
Well, that $1000 bill is still there. It doesn't magically get reduced when Smith gets his gift. So guess who is going to have to make up the difference?
That's right. Mr. Jones. His tax bill just went from $500 to $800.
How in the living fuck is that a fair system? How in the fuck does Mr Smith's argument, "I get to keep more of my own money" really work when his keeping of his money comes at Mr. Jones's expense?
Now, Mr. Jones is not going to tolerate a 60% jump in his taxes. No fucking way. He might tolerate a 10% jump. And so he will pay $550 in taxes while Mr Smith is only paying $200. That's pretty fucked up all by itself.
But we still need to come up with another $250.
So the government borrows it. From China. To pay for Mr. Smith's deductions, exemptions, and credits.
Wow! This is common knowledge among politicos.Yes. Where did you get that from?A tax break is a tax expenditure?
Yes. This is news to you?
Tax expenditures are revenue losses attributable to tax provisions that often result from the use of the tax system to promote social goals without incurring direct expenditures. How tax expenditures are structured affects both who will benefit from them and how much they will reduce federal revenues.
Tax expenditures can take many forms. Some result from tax provisions that reduce the present value of taxable income through deferral allowances, or special exclusions, exemptions, or deductions from gross income.
What you don't understand is that not everyone agrees that every program is necessary. Or even a good idea. You make it sound like it's written in stone and any reduction is a loss.Anticipated this bogus argument. See post 69. What you rubes fail to see is that gift comes at someone else's expense.Deductions, credits, and exemptions are a way to redistribute the cost of government from one group to another group. If you get a deduction, credit, or exemption, that cost has to be made up for by someone else. You are no different than someone who gets an Obamaphone. In fact, you are getting much, much, much more value than an Obamaphone from the government.
The guy who didn't get a mortgage has to pay more than you. That's who is paying for your mortgage interest deduction.
Oh boy, there it is.. the old "every dollar we don't take from you is a gift" mentality.
<facepalm>
If it was just a matter of getting to keep more of your own money, you would have a point. But someone else has to cough up more money to pay for you to keep more of your money. That is the other half of the equation you are kept in the dark about.
You want lower tax rates? Eliminate all tax expenditures. Then two miracles happen.
First, everyone earning identical incomes will be paying identical taxes at a lower tax rate than we have now.
Second, instant campaign finance reform. There is no point in giving incumbents campaign cash to put exemptions, deductions, and credits in the tax code if they are banned from doing so.
I don't think there's any conservative alive that doesn't want the tax system overhauled. More like tossed out and starting over with a few sheets of paper.
Wow! This is common knowledge among politicos.Yes. Where did you get that from?A tax break is a tax expenditure?
Yes. This is news to you?
At least I thought it was!
Tax Expenditures What are they and how are they structured
Yes, less taxes are less money coming in. Duh. The fact that the government isn't structured to spend less when income goes down is a HUGE problem. You either raise taxes or borrow more or both. It's fiscally irresponsible.Tax expenditures are revenue losses attributable to tax provisions that often result from the use of the tax system to promote social goals without incurring direct expenditures. How tax expenditures are structured affects both who will benefit from them and how much they will reduce federal revenues.
And yet the government does make the guy next door pay for your mortgage interest deduction and your child tax credits.What you don't understand is that not everyone agrees that every program is necessary. Or even a good idea. You make it sound like it's written in stone and any reduction is a loss.Anticipated this bogus argument. See post 69. What you rubes fail to see is that gift comes at someone else's expense.Deductions, credits, and exemptions are a way to redistribute the cost of government from one group to another group. If you get a deduction, credit, or exemption, that cost has to be made up for by someone else. You are no different than someone who gets an Obamaphone. In fact, you are getting much, much, much more value than an Obamaphone from the government.
The guy who didn't get a mortgage has to pay more than you. That's who is paying for your mortgage interest deduction.
Oh boy, there it is.. the old "every dollar we don't take from you is a gift" mentality.
<facepalm>
If it was just a matter of getting to keep more of your own money, you would have a point. But someone else has to cough up more money to pay for you to keep more of your money. That is the other half of the equation you are kept in the dark about.
You want lower tax rates? Eliminate all tax expenditures. Then two miracles happen.
First, everyone earning identical incomes will be paying identical taxes at a lower tax rate than we have now.
Second, instant campaign finance reform. There is no point in giving incumbents campaign cash to put exemptions, deductions, and credits in the tax code if they are banned from doing so.
If you ever ran your own business you'd understand that when you income goes down, your spending should go down. You can't make the guy next door pay your tool bills.
