ObamaCare - $700 - $1,000 FINE for the little guy?

[dblack]

Why is all of this so hard to get right again I wonder?

Because everyone has a different idea of what "getting it right" means. That's why I prefer a government that protects our freedom to pursue our own vision of 'right', rather than deciding what the vision must be and pushing us toward it.

Yes, I agree.. Now what do you think of my safety net plan, in which is not government pushing us toward anything that it believes in as a vision or ideology, but is rather just providing us with a net to catch us in, if all else fails when we walk the high wire of life ?

It's vastly better than what's been proposed. Ultimately, I think we can care for each other as a society voluntarily (and it would be preferable to do so), but I don't find safety nets to be an egregious violation of limited government.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Nice that you spin the story into the Twilight Zone.

For those mandated to buy insurance that cannot afford it the feds will help you pay for it.

It's in the Bill that the IRS can't prosecute or otherwise enforce the "penalty."

You've got some learning to do.

Here's an article which says in part:

Income provisions

The financial tests to avoid a penalty include having family income that is too low to require filing a federal tax return. Using 2010 rules, this would be less than $9,350 for an individual and $18,700 for a family.

...... according to that, if Ms. Jane Doe makes a mere $9,351 per YEAR - she is deemed to be able to afford a monthly insurance premium.

Your second statement is incorrect too. The IRS will keep your tax return if you don't pay the penalty for not being able to afford a monthly insurance premium.

The biggest stick the agency may have is withholding tax refunds from those who owe penalties.

Read and weep and learn, grandma!

How Obamacare penalty will work - 1 - - MSN Money

 

[Greenbeard]

...... according to that, if Ms. Jane Doe makes a mere $9,351 per YEAR - she is deemed to be able to afford a monthly insurance premium.

Not quite. If she's below 138% of the poverty line (~$15,400 for a family size of one under the 2012 poverty thresholds), she wouldn't be expected to pay a monthly premium. If she were to get a little above that, she would be expected to buy insurance but her contribution to her premiums would be limited to a set percentage of her income. So in this instance (of her making say $15,500), she'd be asked to pay about $40 per month for insurance premiums.

 

[beagle9]

...... according to that, if Ms. Jane Doe makes a mere $9,351 per YEAR - she is deemed to be able to afford a monthly insurance premium.

Not quite. If she's below 138% of the poverty line (~$15,400 for a family size of one under the 2012 poverty thresholds), she wouldn't be expected to pay a monthly premium. If she were to get a little above that, she would be expected to buy insurance but her contribution to her premiums would be limited to a set percentage of her income. So in this instance (of her making say $15,500), she'd be asked to pay about $40 per month for insurance premiums.

Ok, but it still is just outright ludicris thinking for the feds to expect anyone to carry a policy by law or to be fined at all if they don't, because they can't garantee anyone the quality of the policy in which they are demanding for them to carry can they ? How people will vote this guy back into office, and this if and when they do but hopefully they won't, will be purely regrettable for America (imho).

 

[2ndAmendment]

...... according to that, if Ms. Jane Doe makes a mere $9,351 per YEAR - she is deemed to be able to afford a monthly insurance premium.

Not quite. If she's below 138% of the poverty line (~$15,400 for a family size of one under the 2012 poverty thresholds), she wouldn't be expected to pay a monthly premium. If she were to get a little above that, she would be expected to buy insurance but her contribution to her premiums would be limited to a set percentage of her income. So in this instance (of her making say $15,500), she'd be asked to pay about $40 per month for insurance premiums.

Greenbeard, I went back to look at the same article I linked and quoted .... later on in the article it says this: The guidelines for 2012 begin at $11,170 for one person ...

I'm appalled that the government believes someone making that little bit of chump change could possibly afford a mandated by law monthly insurance premium -- OR be fined AND have their tax return withheld. That's outrageous. That's not American, it's communism at the least.

 

[daveman]

Nice that you spin the story into the Twilight Zone.

For those mandated to buy insurance that cannot afford it the feds will help you pay for it.

It's in the Bill that the IRS can't prosecute or otherwise enforce the "penalty."

And where does the feds' money come from?

 

[Greenbeard]

Ok, but it still is just outright ludicris thinking for the feds to expect anyone to carry a policy by law or to be fined at all if they don't, because they can't garantee anyone the quality of the policy in which they are demanding for them to carry can they

I'm not sure what you mean by "they can't guarantee anyone the quality of the policy."

Greenbeard, I went back to look at the same article I linked and quoted .... later on in the article it says this: The guidelines for 2012 begin at $11,170 for one person ...

That's the poverty threshold for one person. But as I said, since Medicaid eligibility was expanded to 138% of the poverty threshold, no one below that amount has to pay private insurance premiums. Those above that threshold (up to 400% of poverty) have their income protected, as the amount they spend on insurance premiums is limited to a set percentage of their income, along a sliding scale.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Nice that you spin the story into the Twilight Zone.

For those mandated to buy insurance that cannot afford it the feds will help you pay for it.

It's in the Bill that the IRS can't prosecute or otherwise enforce the "penalty."

And where does the feds' money come from?

uhh ohhh ....

 

[daveman]

Nice that you spin the story into the Twilight Zone.

For those mandated to buy insurance that cannot afford it the feds will help you pay for it.

It's in the Bill that the IRS can't prosecute or otherwise enforce the "penalty."

And where does the feds' money come from?

uhh ohhh ....

Her answer will be quite revealing.

So will a refusal to answer.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Ok, but it still is just outright ludicris thinking for the feds to expect anyone to carry a policy by law or to be fined at all if they don't, because they can't garantee anyone the quality of the policy in which they are demanding for them to carry can they

I'm not sure what you mean by "they can't guarantee anyone the quality of the policy."

Greenbeard, I went back to look at the same article I linked and quoted .... later on in the article it says this: The guidelines for 2012 begin at $11,170 for one person ...

That's the poverty threshold for one person. But as I said, since Medicaid eligibility was expanded to 138% of the poverty threshold, no one below that amount has to pay private insurance premiums. Those above that threshold (up to 400% of poverty) have their income protected, as the amount they spend on insurance premiums is limited to a set percentage of their income, along a sliding scale.

So, the government really thinks that someone making $11,171 per YEAR has ANY extra funds to pay for monthly mandated insurance - on some sliding scale? Really? I can't even begin to imagine how one person could live on those crumbs -- then be FORCED to pay for insurance OR get a fine AND their tax returns withheld. Do you really think punishing the poor working class is the American way?

If nothing else, Obamacare would probably make welfare look enticing. Do nothing, get everything. And that's what it all about anyway -- getting everyone on government assistance and damn the working man. Sucks!

 

[Greenbeard]

So, the government really thinks that someone making $11,171 per YEAR has ANY extra funds to pay for monthly mandated insurance - on some sliding scale? Really?

I'm puzzled because I feel like I'm being very clear and yet you're not getting this. Someone making $11,171 would not have to go buy private insurance.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So, the government really thinks that someone making $11,171 per YEAR has ANY extra funds to pay for monthly mandated insurance - on some sliding scale? Really?

I'm puzzled because I feel like I'm being very clear and yet you're not getting this. Someone making $11,171 would not have to go buy private insurance.

So MSN Money mag is wrong? I'm puzzled too because you were the one who mentioned a sliding scale payment for the poor who actually work. And I intentionally said $11,171 -- one dollar over the amount stated in the article for one person. Even with your $15,400 yearly income figure - that's a pitiful amount of money for one person to live on AND be subjected to the mandate, fines, and no tax returns. Sounds like a punishment for not going on welfare and food stamps.

(And then I have that memory of Pelosi saying to just pass it so we can find out what's in it. )

 

[Luddly Neddite]

As a read more and more about ObamaCare... I just have to say "I don't know if it's a good thing."

I am a entrepreneur and I had a conversation with a group of my associates and they explained the tax ramifications and penalties associated with the plan. Is this nonsense true?

Can someone help break down the fine print in this policy for me?

No.

I've posted so many links and you idiot rw's just ignore them and keep right on lying.

When are you going to take responsibility for EDUCATING YOURSELF?

No, I don't mean reading more ignorant rw's complaining about things they have not bothered to EDUCATE THEMSELVES about.

You have no way of knowing this but right now, this very moment, you are on the internet. You have fast and easy information at your fingertips.

For christs sake, quit whining and lying and USE IT.

 

[2ndAmendment]

As a read more and more about ObamaCare... I just have to say "I don't know if it's a good thing."

I am a entrepreneur and I had a conversation with a group of my associates and they explained the tax ramifications and penalties associated with the plan. Is this nonsense true?

Can someone help break down the fine print in this policy for me?

No.

I've posted so many links and you idiot rw's just ignore them and keep right on lying.

When are you going to take responsibility for EDUCATING YOURSELF?

No, I don't mean reading more ignorant rw's complaining about things they have not bothered to EDUCATE THEMSELVES about.

You have no way of knowing this but right now, this very moment, you are on the internet. You have fast and easy information at your fingertips.

For christs sake, quit whining and lying and USE IT.

Oh thanks. I trust you read the article I posted.

 

[alan1]

I think ObamaCare works on a number of levels.

I'm a supporter of the individual mandate, have been supporting it since Republicans put it forward 20 years ago.

When Gov. Romney said a week or so ago that uninsured people can go to the emergency room for care, that made me scratch my head because we all know that's the most expensive way to deal with this problem. Why would we want to go back to that?

The costs of uninsured folks to insured folks can be felt on a number of levels. With the mandate, tens of millions of people will be forced to take responsibility for themselves. Now, some of the people in that pool will be people that my taxpayer money will be going to, but answer me this: Doesn't it save me money to have some of my pocket change going to insurance policies rather than the huge bills that uninsured folks rack up on the backs of hospitals and the rest of us?

I think the next step is to divorce employers from individual healthcare coverage of employees altogether. A person's healthcare should be their own thing, and it benefits someone's life directly to make sure they're insured even if they're in between jobs.

The first step is to allow doctors and hospitals to decide if they want to give treatment to people that can't afford it (via their bank account or insurance). We don't force farmers to give away food for free, we don't force lawyers to give away legal advice for free, so why do we force doctors/hospitals to give away their services for free?
No where in the US constitution does it say that a person can be forced to give the fruits of their labor for free.
No where in the US constitution does it say the government can force people to engage in commerce.
No where in the US constitution does it say that medical care is a right.

 

[Care4all]

For those mandated to buy insurance that cannot afford it the feds will help you pay for it.

And who will decide whether you can afford it? The person who knows and deals with your family's budget? Or, someone else?

It's in the Bill that the IRS can't prosecute or otherwise enforce the "penalty."

If you believe that, if you believe Congress would bother specifying a penalty for a law that won't be enforced, well.... I know of a lucrative real estate opportunity we should really talk about. IM me right away!

If you are at poverty level or below, then you qualify for Medicaid, where you pay nothing for your health care coverage....Why would these people owe a penalty if they are or can, get their healthcare through Medicaid?

What does the Supreme Court's health-care ruling mean for me? - The Washington Post

http://coverageforall.org/pdf/FHCE_FedPovertyLevel.pdf

 

[midcan5]

America is going to have change its mottoes and symbols, we are now the nation of 'whiners' and 'can't do'. What the hell happened to the leader of the world that every two bit country now does things we find impossible?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...care/235883-a-moral-question.html#post5665900

"America, Land of the Whiner, Home of the Incompetent"

OPs like this negative BS from the imbeciles on the right is so tiring and so useless. Check out where we rank in a number of areas below. Poverty and freedom of the press are telling.

Ranking America

 

[2ndAmendment]

Care4all - someone has been feeding you some bull about Medicaid.


Medicaid serves low-income parents, children, seniors, and people with disabilities. Period.

That excludes millions and millions who Obama wants to force into monthly payments or fines, penalties and no tax refunds.

Read up!

 

[2ndAmendment]

midcan5 - your avatar should come with a warning. So much ugly in such a tiny space. ack!

 

[WillowTree]

Really? Disguised as a tax?

Those who aren't blessed enough to have health insurance will be MANDATED to purchase it OR face a yearly fine of $700 - $1,000 FINE? (Collectable by the 10,000 new IRS agents hired?)

Is that true? So I heard.

PS -- funny when the muslim-in-chief said that everyone would have insurance. Oh, OK -- they are forced to buy it at the price of a new car or face a fine by the IRS? And we know the IRS is the pitbull of collectors.

Well, maybe new jobs will be created to build extra federal prison space for those who don't pay the new fine/tax.

Pitiful.

Just remember it was the fucking democrats who did it to you,, and go vote for Mitt Romney.