Obama moves to save the honey bees, targets pesticides

[Mustang]

European honeybees. An introduced species.

Here's a bag, breathe into it. We aren't all going to die because European honey bees in the US have mites.

Why is it that conservatives ALWAYS extrapolate to the point of ridiculousness?

Will we all die? No.

Will the abundance, and availability, and the affordability of our food supply be negatively affected? Yes.

Is that a good thing? No.

Do we WANT that to happen. Anybody with any damn sense wouldn't want it to happen and would try to prevent it from happening as opposed to just standing by and doing nothing to hopefully prevent it from happening.

Preventing disasters, like preventing illness, is just plain smart. That's one of the purposes of gov't. It's the collective action of people (communities) to work together to prevent damage from floods. That's why communities hopefully restrict building in traditional flood plains with building permits. That's why we build sewer systems and other places to collect rainfall and direct it away from population centers. That's why we do contingency planning, and provide vaccines to prevent illness, and put lightning rods on buildings, and mandate standards to prevent electrical shock when putting in electricity in newly constructed buildings. That's why we have fire suppression systems, and fire sprinklers, and fire alarms.

But people like you who hate gov't just for the sake of hating it can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Does the OP or GOP know.....if bees go extinct, WE go extinct???

Damn it, forgot, these are right wingers. If you told them a scientist said the sky is blue, they'd say hes a Democrat fraud and the sky is actually red, or it could be green, because who knows, the science isn't settled.


If all the bees die, all the people die.

Is that simple enough right wingers?

This is where you all government all the time nut jobs always come off the rails.

If the bee's die people die...it's all about the drama you feel the need to whip up and has absolutely nothing at all to do with science.

Science identifies the problem and sees a way to correct that problem. It identifies a group of pesticides that are potentually causing the issue and we can stop distribution on those until we can do further tests to determine if that is the cause or not.

That doesn't fit well with the left wing freak out narrative though does it? Hell no, what we need is a massive new government agency made up of if we're lucky a ten to one ratio of bureaucratic worthless fucks to scientists at a cost of several million dollars that will never fucking go away. Even if the problem is solved and the bee's blotted out the mid-day sun this agency will still exists and of course will need a 10% budget increase every fucking year until the end of time.

Bureaucracy isn't science, it isn't common sense and it's never an efficient way to go about problem solving. But that won't fit in the little hippie girl Moonbeam's tiny brain so you resort to "The bee's die! We die!"

I won't even get into how this helps Monsanto, you may need to digest that another time.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

European honeybees. An introduced species.

Here's a bag, breathe into it. We aren't all going to die because European honey bees in the US have mites.

Why is it that conservatives ALWAYS extrapolate to the point of ridiculousness?

Will we all die? No.

Will the abundance, and availability, and the affordability of our food supply be negatively affected? Yes.

Is that a good thing? No.

Do we WANT that to happen. Anybody with any damn sense wouldn't want it to happen and would try to prevent it from happening as opposed to just standing by and doing nothing to hopefully prevent it from happening.

Preventing disasters, like preventing illness, is just plain smart. That's one of the purposes of gov't. It's the collective action of people (communities) to work together to prevent damage from floods. That's why communities hopefully restrict building in traditional flood plains with building permits. That's why we build sewer systems and other places to collect rainfall and direct it away from population centers. That's why we do contingency planning, and provide vaccines to prevent illness, and put lightning rods on buildings, and mandate standards to prevent electrical shock when putting in electricity in newly constructed buildings. That's why we have fire suppression systems, and fire sprinklers, and fire alarms.

But people like you who hate gov't just for the sake of hating it can't see the forest for the trees.

You better read this whole thread. It's leftards screaming we are all going to die.

 

[eagle1462010]

World's population: growing

smart people: working their asses off to find ways to get safer, higher yields.

Some stupid Righties: drill baby, drill and btw get the fuck off my lawn and fuck the bees, they ain't indigenous! And yeah, it's all Obama's fault.


Not even to mention the medicinal value of bees and their by-products.

Strawman off an OP that turned political in nature. Common here and everywhere. Your side doesn't own the solutions and your ego doesn't fix a damn thing.

Your side throws stones and gets some back.

I don't want any of the bees dying off. So I'm open to solutions, but not the rhetoric of attacking pesticides which might not have viable solutions to prevent other problems.

Drill baby drill. Damn skippy. It creates jobs, which is something we need in this country. We don't need our power bills to double either in the attack against fossil fuels.

Finally, the continent survived without the bees back then so they aren't the only part in this equation. I don't want them dying off, but understand a mud slinging match was ongoing and part of the mud when some defended pesticides and the industry.

I do not accept blanket BS. One study does not mean it's the ultimate solution, and banning pesticides may not be the main solution.

Keep working on that. There is hope for you yet.

I too want solutions and never even once did I say that pesticides are the only cause of this mystery, now did I....


OH, and you are right: the continent survived without bees way back when. But will WE? Aye, that is the rub, indeed.

Hope from your superior mind. LOL

I'll never go to the Dark Side, which happens to be the liberals of this country.

And to the now did I comment............some throughout this thread were pushing that and not specifically you.

Nature has a way of evolving. To survive. Is this cyclic?

 

[koshergrl]

European honeybees. An introduced species.

Here's a bag, breathe into it. We aren't all going to die because European honey bees in the US have mites.

Why is it that conservatives ALWAYS extrapolate to the point of ridiculousness?

Will we all die? No.

Will the abundance, and availability, and the affordability of our food supply be negatively affected? Yes.

Is that a good thing? No.

Do we WANT that to happen. Anybody with any damn sense wouldn't want it to happen and would try to prevent it from happening as opposed to just standing by and doing nothing to hopefully prevent it from happening.

Preventing disasters, like preventing illness, is just plain smart. That's one of the purposes of gov't. It's the collective action of people (communities) to work together to prevent damage from floods. That's why communities hopefully restrict building in traditional flood plains with building permits. That's why we build sewer systems and other places to collect rainfall and direct it away from population centers. That's why we do contingency planning, and provide vaccines to prevent illness, and put lightning rods on buildings, and mandate standards to prevent electrical shock when putting in electricity in newly constructed buildings. That's why we have fire suppression systems, and fire sprinklers, and fire alarms.

But people like you who hate gov't just for the sake of hating it can't see the forest for the trees.

Uh huh.

I see a huge disaster around the corner if you loons have your way and eradicate pesticides.

I see no disaster if European honeybees (which are recovering nicely from their mite issue, thanks) are wiped out in the USA.

Hm. Disaster guaranteed, vs. no disaster at all...hm mmmmmm

 

[koshergrl]

This is where moonglow, winterborn, luds and the other human shit advocates pipe up about how healthy we would all be if we crapped on our vegetables. If we ate our own poop, then we wouldn't NEED huge farms!

Gads you guys are nuts.

 

[eagle1462010]

European honeybees. An introduced species.

Here's a bag, breathe into it. We aren't all going to die because European honey bees in the US have mites.

Why is it that conservatives ALWAYS extrapolate to the point of ridiculousness?

Will we all die? No.

Will the abundance, and availability, and the affordability of our food supply be negatively affected? Yes.

Is that a good thing? No.

Do we WANT that to happen. Anybody with any damn sense wouldn't want it to happen and would try to prevent it from happening as opposed to just standing by and doing nothing to hopefully prevent it from happening.

Preventing disasters, like preventing illness, is just plain smart. That's one of the purposes of gov't. It's the collective action of people (communities) to work together to prevent damage from floods. That's why communities hopefully restrict building in traditional flood plains with building permits. That's why we build sewer systems and other places to collect rainfall and direct it away from population centers. That's why we do contingency planning, and provide vaccines to prevent illness, and put lightning rods on buildings, and mandate standards to prevent electrical shock when putting in electricity in newly constructed buildings. That's why we have fire suppression systems, and fire sprinklers, and fire alarms.

But people like you who hate gov't just for the sake of hating it can't see the forest for the trees.

Forest for the trees. We've seen them waste money through their stupidity for a long time, so pardon me when I want to know where every cent spent goes.

 

[koshergrl]

Let the bugs eat the grain...grow your own tomatoes directly in your own poo!

Progressive heaven!

BTW...european honeybees don't pollinate your tomatoes. Or your zucchini.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Really, it isn't that important.

European honeybees aren't indiginous. If they are wiped out on this continent, it's no big deal. We have indiginous bees that will pick up the slack.

Just waiting backstage for their chance to step up and show their stuff?

They already show their stuff.

Retards like you don't even know they exist. You thought that the EUROPEAN honey bee was native to North America.

It's not. It's an introduced species, the "white man's fly". And like most introduced species, it goes through times when it is struggling.
But it doesn't pollinate many of our native crops anyway. Like tomatoes and squash, for example. Beans. Etc.

What you have are a bunch of gentleman farmers who like to keep bees, who are upset that people who actually produce the lion's share of the world's food use pesticides that may..or may not...affect their little pitiful hobby hives.

As always. It's the elitists attempting to control industries they know absolutely nothing about.

Kosh you were doing ok until you said this...
.
What you have are a bunch of gentleman farmers who like to keep bees, who are upset that people who actually produce the lion's share of the world's food use pesticides that may..or may not...affect their little pitiful hobby hives.

you do realize that those "hobby" Bees are responsible for something like 30% of the food crops ...and if 1 or 2 of those insecticides is fucking with them it could very easily affect the wild bees as well as the other Pollinators....

 

[Harry Dresden]

And the far left can not admit they are part of the problem and that Obama is a failure.

Once the far left grows up then we will be able to move forward in all areas of politics.

hey Kosh answer a question......are the far right part of the problem too?...

 

[rdean]

The only scientists Republicans trust are Republican scientists. And Republicans put both of their scientists on the House Science committee. To make sure those "liberal" scientists don't tell people the earth is billions of years old. They hate that. And don't tell me how the Chinese have a written history older than the earth. That's something for Republican scientists to figure out.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Why is everyone trying to kill my dreams?

oh man, I'm sorry

That's alright, I know FOR SURE I'm gonna win the Super Lotto this weekend. Then all you suckers can kiss my ass!

your State lotto or one of the big ones,power or mega?....

 

[koshergrl]

Just waiting backstage for their chance to step up and show their stuff?

They already show their stuff.

Retards like you don't even know they exist. You thought that the EUROPEAN honey bee was native to North America.

It's not. It's an introduced species, the "white man's fly". And like most introduced species, it goes through times when it is struggling.
But it doesn't pollinate many of our native crops anyway. Like tomatoes and squash, for example. Beans. Etc.

What you have are a bunch of gentleman farmers who like to keep bees, who are upset that people who actually produce the lion's share of the world's food use pesticides that may..or may not...affect their little pitiful hobby hives.

As always. It's the elitists attempting to control industries they know absolutely nothing about.

Kosh you were doing ok until you said this...
.
What you have are a bunch of gentleman farmers who like to keep bees, who are upset that people who actually produce the lion's share of the world's food use pesticides that may..or may not...affect their little pitiful hobby hives.

you do realize that those "hobby" Bees are responsible for something like 30% of the food crops ...and if 1 or 2 of those insecticides is fucking with them it could very easily affect the wild bees as well as the other Pollinators....

Except...

it's not the insecticides that's fucking with them..it's a type of mite.

And it's not affecting the native populations.

And the 30 percent figure is what I think that Statist was trying to wrap his mouth around when he made the ridiculous claim that we imported bees because they would increase crops by that amount..it's an iffy figure, really hard to calculate, really hard to determine if the crops WOULD truly fail, or not.

Whereas..we know they will fail without insecticides. There is absolutely no doubt about it....

Leftist environmentalist know-nothings. They like to mess with the flora and fauna, then complain when things go wrong.

The EUROPEAN HONEYBEE is not native to this country. We have other honey bees that ARE native to this country..however they don't produce as much HONEY.

This is all about HONEY. HONEY producers are trying to create a panic because their INVASIVE, non-native bees are difficult to keep going.

Too bad. We aren't going to eliminate pesticides because you guys didn't make a killing off your farmer's market honey last year. Buck up. Get a real job.

 

[Harry Dresden]

You aren't making any sense.

No? What parts don't you comprehend? I'll be glad to put it in more simple, easy to understand, terms.

I worked with a guy who was a beekeeper. Interesting profession. He can remove honey bees from your house without killing them, and in the process use another hive to get all the honey from the walls using the bees. So you don't have to destroy your walls to get the honey combs and honey out of it.

The new hive robs the hive in the wall. Then the workers from the wall hive join the colony on the outside and steal everything from the hive you are trying to get rid of.

Pretty cool actually as if you just kill them all of that honey is still in the walls.

i know what you mean....on my old route out here i watched ( for a bit) a Bee Keeper remove a huge nest found in a guys attic....he was telling all the onlookers how he was going to do it....pretty interesting...

 

[Harry Dresden]

And where did I say it wasn't all a problem.........It stated that mites were the major problem. And then cited Pesticide resistance being the major cause as the pesticides are no longer working to prevent the mites from killing the bees.

I glanced through this thread and saw the Major topic being pesticides and banning them. Yet this study does not cite it as the major problem.

Ball returned to your court.

well whats the point of using them if they don't work? from what i read we bred them to not groom each other, and thats why the mites have become such a problem. We dont even need pesticides for this. Just need to fix the breeding, which we are. Thats why domestic bee's are coming back.

If something doesn't work then using them would be stupid of course. We either find something that works or the problem continues.

The pesticides that don't work on mites may work on field insects. So banning might not be the solution either.

as long as they let the Scientist sort this out and not the insecticide companies and the Govt.....they will get to the bottom of it....right now lots of Bee Keepers and their Hives are in California as they do every year to pollinate,something like 1.6 million bees.....and this year a bunch of Scientist from around the Country and world will are with them....the Bee Keeper on the news said they should be able to find out a lot about whats going on...

 

[JoeB131]

[

No link.

And "bees" is not what we're talking about. I maintain that our native bees are doing okay.

It's the introduced EUROPEAN honey bees that are at risk.

Statist claims that we imported them because they increased crop yields..however, they were imported in 1622 and there is absolutely no evidence that their importation increased crop yields. The use of pesticides did more to increase crop yields than the EUROPEAN HONEYBEE.

Except that the European Honeybee has displaced most native species of bee. Also, bee frequently tend to be species specific. Because many crops in this country were also introduced from Europe, they require European bees to pollinate them.

Conversely, some native American plants (like tomatoes) need native bees to pollinate them.

Native Bees of North America - BugGuide.Net

This really is a big deal.

Of course, unfortunately, when dealing with splenetic Obama haters, Bees have suddenly become a commie invader species that needs to die!!!!

 

[Harry Dresden]

A self-pollinating crop like soybeans shouldn’t have a need for bees. But recent research into the little-understood relationships between the two indicates there could be big bean yield benefits from bees.

Three examples of earlier research include:

• A short-term Canadian study found bees’ presence was associated with much higher yields in food-grade soybeans.
• Australian researchers demonstrated yield increases of 10-40% in honey bee-pollinated soybeans, compared to self-pollinated beans.
• In 2005, a Brazilian research project compared soybean seed production with and without honey bee colonies by raising plants in cages, and reported 50% higher yields when bees were present.

No link.

And "bees" is not what we're talking about. I maintain that our native bees are doing okay.

It's the introduced EUROPEAN honey bees that are at risk.

Statist claims that we imported them because they increased crop yields..however, they were imported in 1622 and there is absolutely no evidence that their importation increased crop yields. The use of pesticides did more to increase crop yields than the EUROPEAN HONEYBEE.

i have seen a lot that dont back that up Kosh........the Biologist on the news talking about all the Bees here right now said the Native Bees dont seem to be getting hit by CCD but they are are also experiencing population declines and range reductions and are being affected by at least some of the same factors affecting honeybees such as habitat loss and fragmentation as well as the use of some pesticides.......

 

[ClosedCaption]

What does "the native populations are doing fine" supposed to mean exactly?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

The only scientists Republicans trust are Republican scientists. And Republicans put both of their scientists on the House Science committee. To make sure those "liberal" scientists don't tell people the earth is billions of years old. They hate that. And don't tell me how the Chinese have a written history older than the earth. That's something for Republican scientists to figure out.

Maybe you need to figure out why liberal's are so distrusted as opposed to why we look for more informed people to follow.

Liberals never tell the truth. Even if the honest truth is the best option they will choose to lie and exaggerate instead.

It has nothing to do with the earth's age or anything else other than the constant lie's you people spew. You can't even hold on to a proven truth without twisting it into a lie for the advancement of your agenda.

You people are liars and therefore not trustworthy in anything you say. That's your problem not ours.

 

[Harry Dresden]

They already show their stuff.

Retards like you don't even know they exist. You thought that the EUROPEAN honey bee was native to North America.

It's not. It's an introduced species, the "white man's fly". And like most introduced species, it goes through times when it is struggling.
But it doesn't pollinate many of our native crops anyway. Like tomatoes and squash, for example. Beans. Etc.

What you have are a bunch of gentleman farmers who like to keep bees, who are upset that people who actually produce the lion's share of the world's food use pesticides that may..or may not...affect their little pitiful hobby hives.

As always. It's the elitists attempting to control industries they know absolutely nothing about.

Kosh you were doing ok until you said this...
.
What you have are a bunch of gentleman farmers who like to keep bees, who are upset that people who actually produce the lion's share of the world's food use pesticides that may..or may not...affect their little pitiful hobby hives.

you do realize that those "hobby" Bees are responsible for something like 30% of the food crops ...and if 1 or 2 of those insecticides is fucking with them it could very easily affect the wild bees as well as the other Pollinators....

Except...

it's not the insecticides that's fucking with them..it's a type of mite.

And it's not affecting the native populations.

And the 30 percent figure is what I think that Statist was trying to wrap his mouth around when he made the ridiculous claim that we imported bees because they would increase crops by that amount..it's an iffy figure, really hard to calculate, really hard to determine if the crops WOULD truly fail, or not.

Whereas..we know they will fail without insecticides. There is absolutely no doubt about it....

Leftist environmentalist know-nothings. They like to mess with the flora and fauna, then complain when things go wrong.

The EUROPEAN HONEYBEE is not native to this country. We have other honey bees that ARE native to this country..however they don't produce as much HONEY.

This is all about HONEY. HONEY producers are trying to create a panic because their INVASIVE, non-native bees are difficult to keep going.

Too bad. We aren't going to eliminate pesticides because you guys didn't make a killing off your farmer's market honey last year. Buck up. Get a real job.

and for everything you have just said there are articles saying the opposite....

it's not the insecticides that's fucking with them

they dont know that yet.....

.it's a type of mite.

one of the things they found....

And it's not affecting the native populations.

i read a few things saying it is.....and few things saying insecticides and habitat loss is affecting them more....the Natl Geo show i saw the Biologist on there have spent the last 5 years out in the wild with these Bees and they said the population is declining....but they havent figured out exactly why yet....

the 30 percent figure

i saw a link that said that the Domestic Bee is responsible for about 1/3 of our Vegetation crops.....

This is all about HONEY.

its a 300 million dollar a year industry .....thats not a big industry .....but the crops they pollinate are a 15-20 billion dollar a year industry...so yea its all about the Honey....