obama just committed political suicide.

'probable cause' means an officer cannot stop you or search you or your belongings without knowledge of an actual crime happening. An example one of my constitutional law instructors used was if you were looking for something the size of a tv you could not look in a night stand drawer and find drugs and arrest the person for having drugs.

'due process' in the context of the United States, refers to how and why laws are enforced. It applies to all persons making everybody equal, example you cannot try someone for murder because they said they wanted someone dead.

'speedy' trail means to have an even smooth flow, no unnecessary delays.

If you look up you might just glimpse my point sailing waaaayyy over your head - it's pretty high though so you probably won't see it.

You're attempt to throw some bullshit and hope it sticks is just plain stupid. What I posted is not above you, how would you know anything about American law if you never had to deal with it? Kind of reminds me, you never ask a person what a filet mignon taste like when all they eat is bologna.

...a bit like trying to have an intelligent discussion with someone that simply doesn't possess the tools.

If your argument is that you can't have any understanding of something without personal experience then that's going to limit your conversation even more isn't it - when was the the last time you were in Egypt?

Tell me, if the application of the constitution is so clear in all situations why the need for constitutional lawyers and courts?
 
But...how do you determine if those basic rights have been infringed upon?
By court interpretration of a law against the constitution.

At the moment smoking dope is unlawful, who's to say that it isn't a constitutional right?

On the other hand, maybe it has, at some time, already been ruled that it isn't a constitutional right and therefore laws prohibiting it are right and proper.
All good.
But, consider in 30 years time that decison could be over-ruled.

Can you see my point...laws are there partly to interpret the constitution, so, because interpretation is required, what is constitutional today may not be tomorrow.

Our rights are specifically stated in our bill of rights. There is no question on what those rights are. Amendments are not interpretation but amendments. They are not the same as you later try to allude to.

Interpretations of the laws are additions of specifics within the bill of rights and the constitution. The smoking dope thing is a matter of the common welfare of the general public since its a mind altering substance which is covered under the law. If they legalize weed its because they are deregulating it, there is nothing that could be found that could deem it a "right". You are free to smoke pot, not free to posses it.

I accept all that but there are thousands of examples where a law has been challenged under the constitution.
Sometimes the law will be deemed constitutional and sometimes not but the decision is made after testing against the constitution.
It can often seem to be a strange interpretation, even against what you might think is the intent of the applied amendment or article - consider my earlier example of allowing someone to fabricate a military record under the rights of free speech.

The dope smoking thing could be possibly challenged under the freedom of religion because of its use by religuious groups like Rastafarians...who knows?

My point is that you can't sit back and use the constitution as the law of the land.
Otherwise you wouldn't need laws at all, you would just get pulled over by the cops and told "I'm sorry sir, your driving contravenes the First Amendment".
It is intended to be the framework upon which the laws are based and no law can be passed that is contrary to the tenets of the constitution.
Whether a law adheres to the constitution or not requires interpretation.
How many times have you seen a ruling that a law is constitutional being overturned by a higher court - or vice versa?

Your rights are enshrined for sure, but when do you know when those rights have been contravened - when you are arrested for; smoking dope...speeding...sending threatening emails to the President...using frag grenades to hunt ducks...?
That's what laws do.
 
If you look up you might just glimpse my point sailing waaaayyy over your head - it's pretty high though so you probably won't see it.

You're attempt to throw some bullshit and hope it sticks is just plain stupid. What I posted is not above you, how would you know anything about American law if you never had to deal with it? Kind of reminds me, you never ask a person what a filet mignon taste like when all they eat is bologna.

...a bit like trying to have an intelligent discussion with someone that simply doesn't possess the tools.

If your argument is that you can't have any understanding of something without personal experience then that's going to limit your conversation even more isn't it - when was the the last time you were in Egypt?

Tell me, if the application of the constitution is so clear in all situations why the need for constitutional lawyers and courts?

...a bit like trying to have an intelligent discussion with someone that simply doesn't possess the tools.
Exactly how I was feeling about you.

If your argument is that you can't have any understanding of something without personal experience then that's going to limit your conversation even more isn't it - when was the the last time you were in Egypt?

You were the one who was questioning what probable cause, due process and speedy trail means. If you don't have any of that within your own countries law you will not know what they actually mean.


Tell me, if the application of the constitution is so clear in all situations why the need for constitutional lawyers and courts?

If everybody know's how to paint why do we have professional painters? If eveybody can plumb why do we have professional plumbers?
 
I know the military, I know posse comitatus, and I know what Congress did. You gotta grow up and get over it. Don't ever think you can mess with the military.
So you just agreed with the law yet you still think it can be used as a police force? The Military wouldn't be an issue, most members of the military happen to be "Right wing" to begin with and they wouldn't fallow an unlawful order knowing that it affected them as much as any private citizen. Odds are that the Joint Chief's would have him thrown out or even jailed for such an order depending on how detrimental the order was.

I served faithfully for almost 12 years active duty as army airborne is a variety of assignments. The army personnel will follow their leaders, and they will not tolerate their peers picking which orders are lawful or not. Don't ever think the Army will permit soldiers to pick and choose.

Jake I also served and know plenty in the military and I know a few LEO's on a personal level I go shooting with them. They will never disarm the people and they will be the one that will do it not the U.S. Military.

Are you confused again? No sane Republican or Democrat wants to disarm the people in violation of their 2nd Amendment rights. As a codacil: the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee you the right to have the same weapons as the military: no, you are not going to get your own gunship.

What the LEOs do? Obey the law.

What will the military do? Obey the law, and heaven help those members who try to pick and choose. Military LEO I do know, and I know they have no trouble arresting superiors in grade to them.
 
bigreb, I can't keep you on ignore. You are too much entertainment. Answer the guy's questions, because if you think that is what you are doing . . .? :dig:
 
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So you just agreed with the law yet you still think it can be used as a police force? The Military wouldn't be an issue, most members of the military happen to be "Right wing" to begin with and they wouldn't fallow an unlawful order knowing that it affected them as much as any private citizen. Odds are that the Joint Chief's would have him thrown out or even jailed for such an order depending on how detrimental the order was.

I served faithfully for almost 12 years active duty as army airborne is a variety of assignments. The army personnel will follow their leaders, and they will not tolerate their peers picking which orders are lawful or not. Don't ever think the Army will permit soldiers to pick and choose.

Jake I also served and know plenty in the military and I know a few LEO's on a personal level I go shooting with them. They will never disarm the people and they will be the one that will do it not the U.S. Military.

Are you confused again? No sane Republican or Democrat wants to disarm the people in violation of their 2nd Amendment rights. As a codacil: the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee you the right to have the same weapons as the military: no, you are not going to get your own gunship.

While I agree we do not need the same weapons as the Military. Part of the Reason for the Second Amendment was so we could protect ourselves from a government gone out of control. Which would most likely use the military against us. So we probably should have something good enough to at least put up a fight against the Military. There was a time when each state controlled it's own Militia. That was intentional. A defense against an out of Control Fed. The Civil war ended all of that. Now if the Fed wanted to turn the Military on us, and could get them to do it. We would stand little chance. In effect they could take our Freedom and control us at anytime if they wanted. Me and my 9mm and 12guage are not going to be able to stop em.

The other part of your claim is very Naive if you ask me. There are Many Democrats and far lefties, who would like nothing more, but to ban gun ownership all together.

However we all know they will not do it through an actual Ban. They will do things like they are already trying to do. Tax Bullets so high it is unpractical to own guns in the first place.
 
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There are some wacks on the left, indeed, as there are militia wacks on the right. You know it, I know it, and all of them on both sides know it so they yell at the other side. What the Founders' intentions were then and their being unable to foresee technology today, the Founders would probably suggest is that civic virtue is a better shield than bigreb having a gunship.
 
There are some wacks on the left, indeed, as there are militia wacks on the right. You know it, I know it, and all of them on both sides know it so they yell at the other side. What the Founders' intentions were then and their being unable to foresee technology today, the Founders would probably suggest is that civic virtue is a better shield than bigreb having a gunship.

No, I bet the founders, if they saw how powerful the Fed has become, and the Technology the Military has, would be asking why the hell we took independent control of State militias away from the states.
 
There are some wacks on the left, indeed, as there are militia wacks on the right. You know it, I know it, and all of them on both sides know it so they yell at the other side. What the Founders' intentions were then and their being unable to foresee technology today, the Founders would probably suggest is that civic virtue is a better shield than bigreb having a gunship.

Maybe the citizens should be limited to black powder muskets and sail-powered gunships as intended by the Founders?
 
There are some wacks on the left, indeed, as there are militia wacks on the right. You know it, I know it, and all of them on both sides know it so they yell at the other side. What the Founders' intentions were then and their being unable to foresee technology today, the Founders would probably suggest is that civic virtue is a better shield than bigreb having a gunship.

No, I bet the founders, if they saw how powerful the Fed has become, and the Technology the Military has, would be asking why the hell we took independent control of State militias away from the states.

Talk to the secessionists, not us. Those bozos 150 years ago could not accept constitutional electoral process, pissed in their pants, and then tipped over the apple cart. The morons were very lucky the rads did not have their way: they would have put the Confed leaders and generals against the wall.
 
There are some wacks on the left, indeed, as there are militia wacks on the right. You know it, I know it, and all of them on both sides know it so they yell at the other side. What the Founders' intentions were then and their being unable to foresee technology today, the Founders would probably suggest is that civic virtue is a better shield than bigreb having a gunship.

No, I bet the founders, if they saw how powerful the Fed has become, and the Technology the Military has, would be asking why the hell we took independent control of State militias away from the states.

Talk to the secessionists, not us. Those bozos 150 years ago could not accept constitutional electoral process, pissed in their pants, and then tipped over the apple cart. The morons were very lucky the rads did not have their way: they would have put the Confed leaders and generals against the wall.

once again wack-o-jake is talking out of his ass.
 
So you just agreed with the law yet you still think it can be used as a police force? The Military wouldn't be an issue, most members of the military happen to be "Right wing" to begin with and they wouldn't fallow an unlawful order knowing that it affected them as much as any private citizen. Odds are that the Joint Chief's would have him thrown out or even jailed for such an order depending on how detrimental the order was.

I served faithfully for almost 12 years active duty as army airborne is a variety of assignments. The army personnel will follow their leaders, and they will not tolerate their peers picking which orders are lawful or not. Don't ever think the Army will permit soldiers to pick and choose.

Jake I also served and know plenty in the military and I know a few LEO's on a personal level I go shooting with them. They will never disarm the people and they will be the one that will do it not the U.S. Military.

Are you confused again? No sane Republican or Democrat wants to disarm the people in violation of their 2nd Amendment rights. As a codacil: the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee you the right to have the same weapons as the military: no, you are not going to get your own gunship.

What the LEOs do? Obey the law.

What will the military do? Obey the law, and heaven help those members who try to pick and choose. Military LEO I do know, and I know they have no trouble arresting superiors in grade to them.

No sane Republican or Democrat wants to disarm the people in violation of their 2nd Amendment rights.
Well let's start with the big chesse himself


Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions. (Aug 2008)
Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008) April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist. (Apr 2008)
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
Barack Obama on the Issues
 
There are some wacks on the left, indeed, as there are militia wacks on the right. You know it, I know it, and all of them on both sides know it so they yell at the other side. What the Founders' intentions were then and their being unable to foresee technology today, the Founders would probably suggest is that civic virtue is a better shield than bigreb having a gunship.

Maybe the citizens should be limited to black powder muskets and sail-powered gunships as intended by the Founders?

No, what they meant was weapons as modern as the times. But what the hell they never thought we would have computer so should we go back to writing on parchment and with quail and do away with the cell phones and computers and TV’s. No more texting or email. no more message boards to voice our first amendment rights
 
Barack Obama on the Issues

Let's see the President on most of the issues

* No litmus test; nominate to Court based on their fairness. (Oct 2008)
* 1990: Wrote law article that that fetus cannot sue mother. (Aug 2008)
* FactCheck: Abortions HAVE gone down under Pres. Bush. (Aug 2008)
* 1997: opposed bill preventing partial-birth abortion. (Aug 2008)
* Opposed legislation protecting born-alive failed abortions. (Aug 2008)
* Ok for state to restrict late-term partial birth abortion. (Apr 2008)
* We can find common ground between pro-choice and pro-life. (Apr 2008)
* Undecided on whether life begins at conception. (Apr 2008)
* Teach teens about abstinence and also about contraception. (Apr 2008)
* GovWatch: Obama’s “present” votes were a requested strategy. (Feb 2008)
* Expand access to contraception; reduce unintended pregnancy. (Feb 2008)
* Rated 100% by NARAL on pro-choice votes in 2005, 2006 & 2007. (Jan 2008)
* Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)
* Stem cells hold promise to cure 70 major diseases. (Aug 2007)
* Trust women to make own decisions on partial-birth abortion. (Apr 2007)
* Extend presumption of good faith to abortion protesters. (Oct 2006)
* Constitution is a living document; no strict constructionism. (Oct 2006)
* Moral accusations from pro-lifers are counterproductive. (Oct 2004)
* Pass the Stem Cell Research Bill. (Jun 2004)
* Protect a woman’s right to choose. (May 2004)
Voting Record
* Opposed born-alive treatment law because it was already law. (Oct 2008)
* Supports Roe v. Wade. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
* Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
* Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
* Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
* Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
* Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women. (May 2006)
* Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
* Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)

Barack Obama on Budget & Economy
Click here for 47 full quotes on Budget & Economy OR 20 older headlines OR other political leaders on Budget & Economy.

Please don't post an entire article jake, It breaks the rules of this board...Care
 
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There are some wacks on the left, indeed, as there are militia wacks on the right. You know it, I know it, and all of them on both sides know it so they yell at the other side. What the Founders' intentions were then and their being unable to foresee technology today, the Founders would probably suggest is that civic virtue is a better shield than bigreb having a gunship.

Maybe the citizens should be limited to black powder muskets and sail-powered gunships as intended by the Founders?

No, what they meant was weapons as modern as the times. But what the hell they never thought we would have computer so should we go back to writing on parchment and with quail and do away with the cell phones and computers and TV’s. No more texting or email. no more message boards to voice our first amendment rights

Aaaaaaa...*sigh*...the good old days........
 
Barack Obama on the Issues

Let's see the President on most of the issues

* No litmus test; nominate to Court based on their fairness. (Oct 2008)
* 1990: Wrote law article that that fetus cannot sue mother. (Aug 2008)
* FactCheck: Abortions HAVE gone down under Pres. Bush. (Aug 2008)
* 1997: opposed bill preventing partial-birth abortion. (Aug 2008)
* Opposed legislation protecting born-alive failed abortions. (Aug 2008)
* Ok for state to restrict late-term partial birth abortion. (Apr 2008)
* We can find common ground between pro-choice and pro-life. (Apr 2008)
* Undecided on whether life begins at conception. (Apr 2008)
* Teach teens about abstinence and also about contraception. (Apr 2008)
* GovWatch: Obama’s “present” votes were a requested strategy. (Feb 2008)
* Expand access to contraception; reduce unintended pregnancy. (Feb 2008)
* Rated 100% by NARAL on pro-choice votes in 2005, 2006 & 2007. (Jan 2008)
* Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)
* Stem cells hold promise to cure 70 major diseases. (Aug 2007)
* Trust women to make own decisions on partial-birth abortion. (Apr 2007)
* Extend presumption of good faith to abortion protesters. (Oct 2006)
* Constitution is a living document; no strict constructionism. (Oct 2006)
* Moral accusations from pro-lifers are counterproductive. (Oct 2004)
* Pass the Stem Cell Research Bill. (Jun 2004)
* Protect a woman’s right to choose. (May 2004)
Voting Record
* Opposed born-alive treatment law because it was already law. (Oct 2008)
* Supports Roe v. Wade. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
* Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
* Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
* Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
* Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
* Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women. (May 2006)
* Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
* Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)
edited short

Hang on, I'll get my reading glasses...
 
Maybe the citizens should be limited to black powder muskets and sail-powered gunships as intended by the Founders?

No, what they meant was weapons as modern as the times. But what the hell they never thought we would have computer so should we go back to writing on parchment and with quail and do away with the cell phones and computers and TV’s. No more texting or email. no more message boards to voice our first amendment rights

Aaaaaaa...*sigh*...the good old days........

You want it one way but not the other I understand.
 

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