Obama calls for up/Down vote on health care

[boedicca]

Really, then perhaps you can explain this:

YouTube - Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill

Video doesn't lie.

Compromising with something that is inherently evil is generally a bad strategy.

Just sayin'.

 

[Zona]

This guy still doesn't get it. We want comprehensive bipartisan healthcare reform....NOT HIS ONE-SIDED SPECIAL DEAL FOR UNIONS.

Thats just funny stuff right there. Nicely done sir. Funny, funny stuff.

 

[DiamondDave]

No... THAT is the biggest line of BS I have ever heard.... most conservatives do want reforms to happen without larger government, more entitlements, and the mistaken mantra that everyone is owed things for their personal care at the expense of someone else

Really, then perhaps you can explain this:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5AmhI9g7o]YouTube - Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill[/ame]

Video doesn't lie.

Video not considering all the reasons behind it is indeed a lie... try and understand when something gets bastardized and other things are thrown in to make even one's own portion or addition unpalatable, it is indeed right to vote against the whole package... even if the portion you wanted suffers...

 

[Zona]

No... THAT is the biggest line of BS I have ever heard.... most conservatives do want reforms to happen without larger government, more entitlements, and the mistaken mantra that everyone is owed things for their personal care at the expense of someone else

Really, then perhaps you can explain this:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5AmhI9g7o]YouTube - Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill[/ame]

Video doesn't lie.

There are so many examples of this.

Remember, this will be his Waterloo!

 

[slackjawed]

I am still asking how this improves the situation where if I pay cash for services recieved, it cost roughly the same as the deductable or copay I would be responsible for with insurance.
See my previous post in this thread, and the other thread I made;
http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...are/107413-nogales-dialysis-this-evening.html
I see this bill, by requiring insurance for everyone, only making healthcare more expensive for everyone.

So far, nobody has shown that to be addressed anywhere in the current HC bill.

This simply looks to me to be government support for insurance companies.
This also looks to me to be a way to give more control to the federal government.
If that is not the case, what am i missing?

 

[DiamondDave]

If in 10 years you don't think you can afford coverage for your child and/or yourself, I suggest you start advancing your skills and worth to ensure you can afford it.. instead of thinking government and society exists to do it for you

I won't be able to afford it because the average cost for health insurance in 2020 is estimated to be $30,000 per family.

Now, I don't know about you, but that seems like a lot to me.

I guess it doesn't seem like a lot to people who think that $200 K a year is an "average salary".

I make quite a comfortable living, but $200 k is still an exceptional salary to me.

Call me crazy...

And if it is, then it is still my responsibility to provide for it... not someone else's responsibility to provide it for me... my personal need for my personal situation is my personal responsibility

Am I for changing things to increase competition (and NO, having the governing entity get its hands in as an insurer or provider is NOT competition), ensure there is legislation concerning pre-existing conditions, and making the market more expansive in choices of coverage purchasing?? Hell yes.. Am I for reforms to tort law?? Hell yes... Am I for punishments to people committing fraud and abusing the system out of monies?? Hell yes.... but I am in no way for this anal baby of an abomination that the entitlement junkie lefties want

 

[Vast LWC]

No... THAT is the biggest line of BS I have ever heard.... most conservatives do want reforms to happen without larger government, more entitlements, and the mistaken mantra that everyone is owed things for their personal care at the expense of someone else

Really, then perhaps you can explain this:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz5AmhI9g7o]YouTube - Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill[/ame]

Video doesn't lie.

Video not considering all the reasons behind it is indeed a lie... try and understand when something gets bastardized and other things are thrown in to make even one's own portion or addition unpalatable, it is indeed right to vote against the whole package... even if the portion you wanted suffers...

They weren't trying to finish passing the legislation in that video. They were trying to accept several amendments that Republicans had made. And the Republicans decided that they no longer wanted the amendments. That's called obstructionism.

 

[DiamondDave]

Really, then perhaps you can explain this:

YouTube - Senate Republicans Block Own Amendments on Health Care Bill

Video doesn't lie.

Video not considering all the reasons behind it is indeed a lie... try and understand when something gets bastardized and other things are thrown in to make even one's own portion or addition unpalatable, it is indeed right to vote against the whole package... even if the portion you wanted suffers...

They weren't trying to finish passing the legislation in that video. They were trying to accept several amendments that Republicans had made. And the Republicans decided that they no longer wanted the amendments. That's called obstructionism.

And if I want to do a bathroom improvement by redoing the tile and floor, and the contractor states the only way it will happen is if I also do the paint, the plumbing, a complete kitchen remodel, and also pay for my neighbor's basement remodeling, then I would obstruct that as well... no matter how bad I want my bathroom tile and floor done

 

[Claudette]

If this bill passes they don't have the money to pay for it. We are broke folks. Catch a damned clue. There is no money.

They are talking about taking 500 billion from medicare to put toward this boondogle. They are slso using the 500 millioin somewhere else. Spending it twice. Doctors are only receiving 60% of cost per medicare patient now. They pass the cost onto those with insurance. Prices will go up for everyone who has insurance. Those that don't have it will be treated at the expense of those that do. The Doctors will either do that or refuse to treat Medicare patients at all.

I think it sucks. If I'm going to give to charity. I'll pick and chose my own. I sure don't need the Govt, those out of touch assholes, to chose for me.

Anyone who thinks this bill isn't going to cost you big time is living in la la land.

Scrap it and start over with REAL REFORM.

 

[Vast LWC]

And if it is, then it is still my responsibility to provide for it... not someone else's responsibility to provide it for me... my personal need for my personal situation is my personal responsibility

I'm not asking you or anyone else to provide it. I'm asking that these costs be kept down to acceptable levels, not that someone else pay for it.

I am asking that corporations not be allowed to rip me off, along with the rest of our population, because they have us over a barrel.

It's not like we can do without health care. $30,000 a year is downright extortion.

Am I for changing things to increase competition (and NO, having the governing entity get its hands in as an insurer or provider is NOT competition)

Yes, it is.

, ensure there is legislation concerning pre-existing conditions, and making the market more expansive in choices of coverage purchasing??

Both of which are included in this legislation.

Hell yes.. Am I for reforms to tort law?? Hell yes... Am I for punishments to people committing fraud and abusing the system out of monies?? Hell yes.... but I am in no way for this anal baby of an abomination that the entitlement junkie lefties want

And Tort Law reform is something the Republicans can make legislation about when they have the majority.

I personally think it should be included, and Obama has actually made some concessions on this point, including a program to look into fixing Tort law.

However, the cost savings from Tort Reform will be minimal at best. Maybe it'll knock about $20.00 off that $30,000.00 yearly bill. Great.

 

[Vast LWC]

And if I want to do a bathroom improvement by redoing the tile and floor, and the contractor states the only way it will happen is if I also do the paint, the plumbing, a complete kitchen remodel, and also pay for my neighbor's basement remodeling, then I would obstruct that as well... no matter how bad I want my bathroom tile and floor done

And there you have it. My point is made. I guess it wasn't "BS" after all was it? It's obstructionism, pure and simple.

 

[slackjawed]

If this bill passes they don't have the money to pay for it. We are broke foks. Catch a damned clue. There is no money.

They are talking about taking 500 billion from medicare. Doctors are only receiving 60% of cost per medicare patient now. They pass the cost onto those with insurance. Prices will go up for everyone who has insurance. Those that don't have it will be treated at the expense of those that do. The Doctors will either do that or refuse to treat Medicare patients at all.

I think it sucks. If I'm going to give to charity. I'll pick and chose my own. I sure don't need the Govt, those out of touch assholes, to chose for me.

Anyone who thinks this bill isn't going to cost you big time, is living in la la land.

Scrap it and start over with REAL REFORM.

My own experience, as stated on this board, has been that when I used insurance the co-pays and deductibles cost me roughly the same as the providers charged me when I have no insurance.
I agree with you, I think it will make health care more expensive than it is now. I also think it gives that money to insurance companies, and gives the federal government more power. That seems to be the real intent of the current bill.

I am retired, have a minimal income, refuse to sign up for medicaid or medicare. I won't sign up for social security, and I go to Mexico for medical care. I don't see anything changing for me. I would like to see a better way for my kids though.

 

[DiamondDave]

And if I want to do a bathroom improvement by redoing the tile and floor, and the contractor states the only way it will happen is if I also do the paint, the plumbing, a complete kitchen remodel, and also pay for my neighbor's basement remodeling, then I would obstruct that as well... no matter how bad I want my bathroom tile and floor done

And there you have it. My point is made. I guess it wasn't "BS" after all was it? It's obstructionism, pure and simple.

And you act as if obstructing something that is wrong, is wrong in itself... I would do anything in my power to ensure the DEM plan is thrown to the curb and puked on.. in order to get to real reform that does not increase government, coddle with more entitlements, and put personal responsibility in the hands of others

Again, fool.. just because they put a tidbit in for 'the opposition' does not mean they should inherently support the whole thing

 

[Vast LWC]

Compromising with something that is inherently evil is generally a bad strategy.

Just sayin'.

Ridiculous hyperbole, as usual.

Tell me, how is trying to lower health care costs "inherently evil"?

Just because you may disagree with the method, doesn't mean you need to get all crazy about it.

While I may disagree with aspects of corporate control of the health care system, I don't go around calling corporations "inherently evil". Sheesh.

 

[boedicca]

My own experience, as stated on this board, has been that when I used insurance the co-pays and deductibles cost me roughly the same as the providers charged me when I have no insurance.
I agree with you, I think it will make health care more expensive than it is now. I also think it gives that money to insurance companies, and gives the federal government more power. That seems to be the real intent of the current bill.

I am retired, have a minimal income, refuse to sign up for medicaid or medicare. I won't sign up for social security, and I go to Mexico for medical care. I don't see anything changing for me. I would like to see a better way for my kids though.

Expensive non-taxed health insurance benefits have done for the cost of medical care what student loans have done to education: driven up costs far beyond what would be indicated in a normal supply vs. demand environment - with the cost increases going to politicians' cronies.

 

[Vast LWC]

And you act as if obstructing something that is wrong, is wrong in itself... I would do anything in my power to ensure the DEM plan is thrown to the curb and puked on.. in order to get to real reform that does not increase government, coddle with more entitlements, and put personal responsibility in the hands of others

You're not even defining what, specifically is "wrong" here, except that you feel that corporations are inherently better at looking out for people's welfare than Government, which is just wrong.

Corporations don't look out for anyone's welfare but their shareholders.

That is their purpose. It doesn't make them evil, but it sure as hell doesn't make them the best people to be in charge of pricing in the health care industry.

 

[DiamondDave]

And you act as if obstructing something that is wrong, is wrong in itself... I would do anything in my power to ensure the DEM plan is thrown to the curb and puked on.. in order to get to real reform that does not increase government, coddle with more entitlements, and put personal responsibility in the hands of others

You're not even defining what, specifically is "wrong" here, except that you feel that corporations are inherently better at looking out for people's welfare than Government, which is just wrong.

Corporations don't look out for anyone's welfare but their shareholders.

The corporation NOR the government is there to look out for your personal welfare or the paying for it... YOU ARE, MOTHERFUCKER

 

[boedicca]

You're not even defining what, specifically is "wrong" here, except that you feel that corporations are inherently better at looking out for people's welfare than Government, which is just wrong.

Corporations don't look out for anyone's welfare but their shareholders.

That is their purpose. It doesn't make them evil, but it sure as hell doesn't make them the best people to be in charge of pricing in the health care industry.

And the purpose of politicians is to accrue power; they don't look out for anyone's welfare but their own and their crony-donors.

That's why we have The Constitution - to limit their power. Even with it, they seek ways around it to expand the scope of government. If you think a corporate bureaucrat is heartless and profit-seeking, you ain't seen nothing until you have to deal with Dr. DMV.

 

[Nonelitist]

And you act as if obstructing something that is wrong, is wrong in itself... I would do anything in my power to ensure the DEM plan is thrown to the curb and puked on.. in order to get to real reform that does not increase government, coddle with more entitlements, and put personal responsibility in the hands of others

You're not even defining what, specifically is "wrong" here, except that you feel that corporations are inherently better at looking out for people's welfare than Government, which is just wrong.

Corporations don't look out for anyone's welfare but their shareholders.

That is their purpose. It doesn't make them evil, but it sure as hell doesn't make them the best people to be in charge of pricing in the health care industry.

Give us an idea of what you do for work... you don't have to get specific, but just say what field and such.

 

[Vast LWC]

And you act as if obstructing something that is wrong, is wrong in itself... I would do anything in my power to ensure the DEM plan is thrown to the curb and puked on.. in order to get to real reform that does not increase government, coddle with more entitlements, and put personal responsibility in the hands of others

You're not even defining what, specifically is "wrong" here, except that you feel that corporations are inherently better at looking out for people's welfare than Government, which is just wrong.

Corporations don't look out for anyone's welfare but their shareholders.

(Edit)

That is their purpose. It doesn't make them evil, but it sure as hell doesn't make them the best people to be in charge of pricing in the health care industry..

The corporation NOR the government is there to look out for your personal welfare or the paying for it... YOU ARE, MOTHERFUCKER

OK, first of all, I edited my post after you quoted it, as defined above.

Secondly, calling someone a "fool" or a "motherfucker" only serves to weaken your point. But hey, you can go ahead and look foolish if you want by casting dispersions with no apparent purpose, it's a free country.