Obama, an Independent's View

[Stephanie]

Ah. A ConservaRepub drone who has all his thinking done for him by FOX. So I say Obama sucks and really hasn't done much but because I give him credit for ANYTHING at all, the extreme whackjobs assume I must be "One of them!". After all, if you don't agree with an extreme ConservaRepub on EVERYTHING, you're a Liberal. Got it.
Bush did catastrophic damage to the economy. You don't remember the GOP candidates flying back and forth to DC to help "save the country" so Bush could do his bailouts? Of course not. You don't remember the DOW being less than half of what it is now BEFORE Obama took office? Of course not. So yes, I blame Bush & The GOP for damaging the economy. I would cite specifically, their legislation that eliminated the penalties for shipping white collar jobs overseas (2001) and their legislation that deregulated the CMBS market (2004). I also blame Bush for ruining the party that I cast my first, second, third and 4th presidential votes for (Still amazed that Clinton beat Bush - the good one, not the idiot).
But I don't blame only Bush and the GOP. I blame Obama as well.
The difference between you and me is while you insult my intelligence and call me a Liberal because I don't drink the FOX kool-aid, hold the GOP Perfect in all ways and see Obama as so magically all-powerful, that you blame him for all of our problems. I see things objectively.
All presidents have their strengths and weakneses. This one has had mostly weaknesses.

You may now continue calling me a dumb liberal. It is expected of you.

Ok, I stopped taking you serious with the Fox news bullshit. and if it walks like a liberal, talks like a liberal, it IS a liberal.

LOL! Well that's 15 "You're a Liberal"s now.
Nice job of dodging the verifiable points. Very easy to see here: I blame Obama. But I don't blame ONLY Obama. I don't find every single thing about ConservaRepubs to be perfect and correct in every way.
So since you had your ass handed to you on the above points, you do what is ever so predicitble. (See signature about how to spot weak debaters, whackjobs etc...)

LOL, and I take you think yourself a STRONG debater.??
Lets see in this post ALONE I see..
ConservaRepubs
whackjobs
I don't care what you post, BUT it was only YOUR opinion, nothing more.
now carry on dear.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Ok, I stopped taking you serious with the Fox news bullshit. and if it walks like a liberal, talks like a liberal, it IS a liberal.

LOL! Well that's 15 "You're a Liberal"s now.
Nice job of dodging the verifiable points. Very easy to see here: I blame Obama. But I don't blame ONLY Obama. I don't find every single thing about ConservaRepubs to be perfect and correct in every way.
So since you had your ass handed to you on the above points, you do what is ever so predicitble. (See signature about how to spot weak debaters, whackjobs etc...)

LOL, and I take you think yourself a STRONG debater.??
Lets see in this post ALONE I see..
ConservaRepubs
whackjobs
I don't care what you post, BUT it was only YOUR opinion, nothing more.
now carry on dear.

I use LibDems too. They don't seem to get their panties in a bunch about it. Do you conider the phrase somehow demeaning? That I would imply that you are both Conservative and Republican? If so, didn't mean to insult you.
Whackjobs applies to both parties equally.
But I'm sure you've never used any kind of derogotory monikers for others. OkeyDokey.

I'm sorry but you offered nothing in the way of points, once you made your bullsh1t claim that Bush didn't contribute heavily to our current condition. Zero. You made a few feeble attempts to prove that everything on planet earth is the fault of Obama and I blew you out of the water with facts. But perhaps you'd like to take another try. Let's start with just the two, very basic and easy points:
Did Bush NOT pass the legislation I cited?
Were the credit swaps and the dergulation of the CMBS market, NOT contributing factors to the crash in the economy?

You may now dodge, change the subject, throw out a couple bumper sticker phrases or call me a Liberal and use that as an excuse to Cut & Run (because you know, facts have been brought up!).

 

[Stephanie]

LOL! Well that's 15 "You're a Liberal"s now.
Nice job of dodging the verifiable points. Very easy to see here: I blame Obama. But I don't blame ONLY Obama. I don't find every single thing about ConservaRepubs to be perfect and correct in every way.
So since you had your ass handed to you on the above points, you do what is ever so predicitble. (See signature about how to spot weak debaters, whackjobs etc...)

LOL, and I take you think yourself a STRONG debater.??
Lets see in this post ALONE I see..
ConservaRepubs
whackjobs
I don't care what you post, BUT it was only YOUR opinion, nothing more.
now carry on dear.

I use LibDems too. They don't seem to get their panties in a bunch about it. Do you conider the phrase somehow demeaning? That I would imply that you are both Conservative and Republican? If so, didn't mean to insult you.
Whackjobs applies to both parties equally.
But I'm sure you've never used any kind of derogotory monikers for others. OkeyDokey.

I'm sorry but you offered nothing in the way of points, once you made your bullsh1t claim that Bush didn't contribute heavily to our current condition. Zero. You made a few feeble attempts to prove that everything on planet earth is the fault of Obama and I blew you out of the water with facts. But perhaps you'd like to take another try. Let's start with just the two, very basic and easy points:
Did Bush NOT pass the legislation I cited?
Were the credit swaps and the dergulation of the CMBS market, NOT contributing factors to the crash in the economy?

You may now dodge, change the subject, throw out a couple bumper sticker phrases or call me a Liberal and use that as an excuse to Cut & Run (because you know, facts have been brought up!).

here's a dodge for you...Show where I ONCE claimed Bush didn't contribute to the situation we are in today?
As for you blowing me out of the water, KEEP DREAMING dear. never hurts. I don't know what it is with you people needing to feel, you blew people out of the water and then brag about it.. something really weird there.

 

[IndependntLogic]

here's a dodge for you...Show where I ONCE claimed Bush didn't contribute to the situation we are in today?
As for you blowing me out of the water, KEEP DREAMING dear. never hurts. I don't know what it is with you people needing to feel, you blew people out of the water and then brag about it.. something really weird there.

1. here's a dodge for you...Show where I ONCE claimed Bush didn't contribute to the situation we are in today?

You blamed things on the 2006 Congress, that Bush was a Lame duck etc... in response to my post that Bush contributed. I'm sorry did I miss the part where, while you were so busy explaining why it WASN'T Bush's fault in any way, you actually acknowed that he DID contribute? Nope I didn't.

But sometimes I say something and it doesn't come out the way I meant it. So perhaps in all that rhetoric about how everything was the fault of the Dem Congress, Bush being a lame duck and of course, everything being Obama's fault, maybe you just forgot the part where you were going to say "However I do acknowledge that Bush contributed to our current problems in these ways:..."

So let'e just go with a straightforward quetion. What would you say Bush and the GOP House and Senate contributed to our current problems?

 

[theHawk]

What has he done? Well, he won a Nobel peace prize just before starting a bunch of wars. Okay that's nice.
He inherited the worst economic mess ever handed over to a president. Bummer dude. You wanted the job. Bush F-cked everything up and you had a chance to be a hero and fix it - even a little bit.
So what did he do to help the worst economic crisis ever transfered from one president to another? He spent eighteen months working on and then passing a health care bill that way SO bad, the only democrats who mentioned it in the mid-terms, were the ones who say "Hey, I didn't vote for that pice of sh-t!"
Brilliant.
Positives? Passed the repeal of DADT and got OBL. Kudos. But seriously, I would rather you had taken care of our country's economic crisis first. SO now we're all screwed. Thanks buddy.

If the GOP isn't stupid enough to put Bachmann, Paul or Eskimo Barbie on the ticket, I'm voting against you. You're just another suit...

Obama didn't "inherit" the worst economic mess ever, he contributed to it. People love to blame Bush for the 2008 and beyond collapse, but they seem to forget that by then he was a lame duck with a Democrat Congress calling the shots. Spending and the national debt went up tremendously those last two years....and guess who was voting to spend in the Senate....the one and only Hussein.

Obama has no one but himself and his progressive friends to blame for "the mess he inherited".

His own track record proves that progressives have no intention of ever cutting spending.

Well I was the one who started this by making it clear how unimpressed I am with Obama. So it's odd that I disagree with you on this but I do.
Bush had the WH, Senate and House and let's take a look at what happened. He spent like a drunken sailor his first year in office. That's right his first year. He also signed the legislation that eliminated the taxes / penalties for sending white collar jobs overseas (remember it was right about ten years ago, when you heard Raja on the other end of tech support). The he signed the act deregulating the Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities market and allowing credit swaps. So what Clinton made bad, Bush made "nukuler". A bank can survive a foreclosure or even a dozen of them. But ten thousand of them bundled together as "fully insured" (the term that was now legally given to sub-prime mortgage bundles)? That brought the roof down.
Obama was less than two months away from the election, when he was given these little gems of news. Oops! So what should he have done? Say "Well folks, let's just let the guys who set all this up, keep doing what they're doing!". Turn down the presidency? I mean, JEEZUS.
Buuut as an Independent, do I hold Obama harmless? Of course not. He's screwed up big time. But that doesn't mean he didn't inherit a clusterfvck. He did. He knew the sh1t had hit the fan and that he should have focused on one thing and one thing only, the moment he got into office: The Economy. Screw Iraq. Screw the disaster called Obamacare. We didn't need a healthcare bill then. We needed someone who would take decisive action to help the economy. We didn't get it. We got another suit. No change.

You are right that the Republican Congress spent way too much, and thats why they were voted out. Unfortunately instead of libertarians being voted in a bunch of liberals did, and they made the problems ten times worse. I am not a fan of Republican's love for "free trade", I support putting tariffs on imported goods/services, but unfortunately neither party supports that idea.

Seems to me the new crop of Republicans with 'Tea Party' backing get the message of "cut cut cut". Although I don't really care if the tax rates are raised a few percent I think they should be across the board to include all those that don't pay any tax at all instead of just the high income earners. However Obama, Reid and Nancy had their big chance to raise taxes and refused to do it so I can understand that Republicans aren't going to take the blame for raising taxes at this point.

 

[IndependntLogic]

Obama didn't "inherit" the worst economic mess ever, he contributed to it. People love to blame Bush for the 2008 and beyond collapse, but they seem to forget that by then he was a lame duck with a Democrat Congress calling the shots. Spending and the national debt went up tremendously those last two years....and guess who was voting to spend in the Senate....the one and only Hussein.

Obama has no one but himself and his progressive friends to blame for "the mess he inherited".

His own track record proves that progressives have no intention of ever cutting spending.

Well I was the one who started this by making it clear how unimpressed I am with Obama. So it's odd that I disagree with you on this but I do.
Bush had the WH, Senate and House and let's take a look at what happened. He spent like a drunken sailor his first year in office. That's right his first year. He also signed the legislation that eliminated the taxes / penalties for sending white collar jobs overseas (remember it was right about ten years ago, when you heard Raja on the other end of tech support). The he signed the act deregulating the Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities market and allowing credit swaps. So what Clinton made bad, Bush made "nukuler". A bank can survive a foreclosure or even a dozen of them. But ten thousand of them bundled together as "fully insured" (the term that was now legally given to sub-prime mortgage bundles)? That brought the roof down.
Obama was less than two months away from the election, when he was given these little gems of news. Oops! So what should he have done? Say "Well folks, let's just let the guys who set all this up, keep doing what they're doing!". Turn down the presidency? I mean, JEEZUS.
Buuut as an Independent, do I hold Obama harmless? Of course not. He's screwed up big time. But that doesn't mean he didn't inherit a clusterfvck. He did. He knew the sh1t had hit the fan and that he should have focused on one thing and one thing only, the moment he got into office: The Economy. Screw Iraq. Screw the disaster called Obamacare. We didn't need a healthcare bill then. We needed someone who would take decisive action to help the economy. We didn't get it. We got another suit. No change.

You are right that the Republican Congress spent way too much, and thats why they were voted out. Unfortunately instead of libertarians being voted in a bunch of liberals did, and they made the problems ten times worse. I am not a fan of Republican's love for "free trade", I support putting tariffs on imported goods/services, but unfortunately neither party supports that idea.

Seems to me the new crop of Republicans with 'Tea Party' backing get the message of "cut cut cut". Although I don't really care if the tax rates are raised a few percent I think they should be across the board to include all those that don't pay any tax at all instead of just the high income earners. However Obama, Reid and Nancy had their big chance to raise taxes and refused to do it so I can understand that Republicans aren't going to take the blame for raising taxes at this point.

Well, Obviously you're a danm Liberal!!!! I agree with you completely. Bush passed the legislation the eliminated the penalties for shipping White Collar jobs overseas in 2001. He spent like a drunken sailor from his first day in office - with the help of a GOP House and Senate. He deregulated the Commercial Mortgage Backed Securities market. Well I must be a danm Liberal for finding those things to be contributing factors!
Then exactly as you said, the Dems got in and made a bad situation even worse. Then Obama got in and yes, he inherited a truckload but no one made him run. And what did he do about the economy? Passed Obamacare. CHucked out even more money to the banks. What a dick (that would be another of my liberal opinions