NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

[Annie]

You don't consider privacy a personal freedom?

No names, addresses, phone numbers. You gave more information to Chase to get your Visa/Mastercard.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Lawyers advised our government to NOT kill bin laden because it MIGHT have been illegal.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

No names, addresses, phone numbers. You gave more information to Chase to get your Visa/Mastercard.

Chase doesn't record my phone conversations.

 

[dilloduck]

We've been over and over our opportunites to get bin laden. google it if you dont believe me.

 

[Annie]

Not speaking for Dillo, but there's this. Links at site:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_08_14-2005_08_20.shtml#1124584469

[Jim Lindgren, August 20, 2005 at 8:34pm] 1 Trackbacks / Possibly More Trackbacks
Did Lawyers Hinder Bin Laden Capture?--

It is quite depressing to read descriptions of how investigations or captures of Osama Bin Laden or other Al Qaeda were hindered by lawyers, rules developed by lawyers, or fears of lawyers. For example, there were the FBI lawyers who wouldn't allow seeking a search warrant to look into Zacarias Moussaoui's laptop computer in Minnesota just before 9/11/2001.

The latest set of lawyers' restrictions to be alleged grew out of a plan to capture Bin Laden. So great was the lawyers' concern for Bin Laden's comfort that a special chair was built to hold him and they were concerned whether the tape used to hold him would hurt his beard. This latest nonsense was revealed by the man who for 10 years headed the CIA's desk tracking Bin Laden, Michael Scheuer, interviewed by Nora O'Donnell on Hardball.

O‘DONNELL: But many people have made the impression that something in the Bush administration was done wrong. But there‘s evidence that the Clinton administration knew full well that bin Laden had the wherewithal and was planning to attack the United States. Who is to blame and did the president, Clinton, get this information?

SCHEUER: Certainly the president got the information. And most certainly his closest adviser, Sandy Berger and Mr. Clarke—Richard Clarke, had the information from 1996 forward that bin Laden intended to attack the United States. There‘s no question of that. And in terms of which administration had more chances, Mr. Clinton‘s administration had far more chances to kill Osama bin Laden than Mr. Bush has until this day.

O‘DONNELL: . . . From what we know now and what you know, how many missed opportunities were there to prevent the 9/11 attacks?

SCHEUER: Well, we had—the question of whether or not we could have prevented the attacks is one you could debate forever. But we had at least eight to 10 chances to capture or kill Osama bin Laden in 1998 and 1999. And the government on all occasions decided that the information was not good enough to act. . . .

O‘DONNELL: Let me ask you what you know about what we‘ve read recently about a secret military operation known as Able Danger. There are people involved in that that say that the United States knew about Mohammed Atta a year before the 9/11 attacks. Is that true? And was there a massive failure by our government?

SCHEUER: I don‘t know firsthand information about Able Danger, ma‘am, but from what I‘ve read in the media, that the lawyers prevented them from passing the information to the FBI, that certainly rings true. The U.S. intelligence community is palsied by lawyers.

When we were going to capture Osama bin Laden, for example, the lawyers were more concerned with bin Laden‘s safety and his comfort than they were with the officers charged with capturing him. We had to build an ergonomically designed chair to put him in, special comfort in terms of how he was shackled into the chair. They even worried about what kind of tape to gag him with so it wouldn‘t irritate his beard. The lawyers are the bane of the intelligence community. . . .

Scheuer goes on to say that, in his opinion, the Iraq War has been a disaster in the effort to stop terror.

SCHEUER: . . . The war in Iraq has broken the back of our counterterrorism effort. I‘m not an expert on the threat posed by Saddam Hussein, but the invasion of Iraq has made sure this war will last decades ahead and it has transferred bin Laden and al Qaeda from being man and an organization into being a philosophy and a movement. We‘ve really made sure that the war against us is going to be a long and very bloody one. Iraq was an absolutely disastrous decision.

As Tom Elia notes (tip to Althouse), this concern for Bin Laden's comfort sounds like a Monty Python skit:

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition ...
Fetch ... THE COMFY CHAIR ...
Put [him] in the Comfy Chair! ...
Now — you will stay in the Comfy Chair until lunch time, with only a cup of coffee at eleven....
Confess! Confess! Confess! Confess!"

Related Posts (on one page):

1. Gorelick Should Have Gone:
2. The Intelligence Wall and the Culture of the Wall.--
3. Did Lawyers Hinder Bin Laden Capture?--

 

[Annie]

Chase doesn't record my phone conversations.

They do on planes. They also track all your purchases, thus Patriot Act complaints.

Truth to tell, the government is watching you drive your car, enter nearly all major buildings, etc. You are watched, yet they've failed to don the Big brother robes, in actuality, if the election were held tomorrow, the current occupants would be tossed and not a thing would change.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Not speaking for Dillo, but there's this. Links at site:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_08_14-2005_08_20.shtml#1124584469

Clinton should have hired better lawyers. The only thing that would have stopped the assasination of Bin Laden legally was a Presidential order that could have been easily rescinded by Clinton. Clinton just didn't have the balls to face the backlash of the decision.

 

[Annie]

Clinton should have hired better lawyers. The only thing that would have stopped the assasination of Bin Laden legally was a Presidential order that could have been easily rescinded by Clinton. Clinton just didn't have the balls to face the backlash of the decision.

they assisnated Bin Laden? When?

 

[Bullypulpit]

Follow the link to an analysis of Dubbyuh's domestic spying program.

<center><a href=http://writ.lp.findlaw.com/dean/20060324.html>President Bush's NSA Program</a></center>

The president has placed himself above the law by failing to adhere to the provisions of the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Act. He broke the law, and continues to do so with impunity. Don't let little things like those pesky facts stand in the way of your blind, slavish support for the Bush administration.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

They do on planes. They also track all your purchases, thus Patriot Act complaints.

I don't make calls on planes. I simply sit quietly and sip my beer and stare out the window. Chase tracks my purchases in order to know what I owe them. That is what they are suppose to do.

Truth to tell, the government is watching you drive your car, enter nearly all major buildings, etc. You are watched, yet they've failed to don the Big brother robes, in actuality, if the election were held tomorrow, the current occupants would be tossed and not a thing would change.

This does not justify listening to my phone conversations.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

they assisnated Bin Laden? When?

Where did I say this?

 

[Annie]

Where did I say this?

Clinton should have hired better lawyers. The only thing that would have stopped the assasination of Bin Laden legally was a Presidential order that could have been easily rescinded by Clinton. Clinton just didn't have the balls to face the backlash of the decision.
__________________

what you meant...

 

[CrimsonWhite]

what you meant...

What makes assasination illegal is Executive Order 12333. Being the Chief Executive, Clinton could have rescinded this order and had Bin Laden killed. I was asserting that Clinton didn't have the balls to rescind the order and face the media backlash that it might have caused. I was actually agreeing with dillo.

This still doesn't justify listening to my phone conversations.

 

[Mr. P]

Laws don't prevent anything. Only enforcement does. We conveniently choose which ones to enforce and which ones to ignore. Lawyers advised our government to NOT kill bin laden because it MIGHT have been illegal. We were so worried about possibly breaking some law that we opened ourselves up to attack.

But we could have taken him alive, what three times? The law nor lawyers refused, it was politicians.

 

[Mr. P]

No names, addresses, phone numbers. You gave more information to Chase to get your Visa/Mastercard.

Give me yer number, in two seconds I can have your Name address and all kinds of great information on you.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Again: if Hillary Clinton was running this, how would your opinion of the issue change?

 

[Mr. P]

Again: if Hillary Clinton was running this, how would your opinion of the issue change?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The ClayTaurus again.

:bangheads .

 

[jillian]

You didn't ask me but I will answer anyway.

Yes, I have. April 12, 1984, Hezbollah bombed a restaurant near the U.S. Air Force base in Torrejon, Spain.

83 people were injured and 18 U.S. military members died. One of them being my friend who died in my arms.

If the U.S. government (or any government) can prevent something like that (or worse) from happening again by listening to phone calls, they have my 100% approval.

I'm sorry you went through that. It must have been horrible. And if our government has any information that gives it probable cause to believe someone is a terrorist, then they'll get a warrant. Let them do covert operations, get people inside believed hot spots. I don't think for a second that data mining does anything more than give people who can't be trusted virtually unlimited access to our private lives for reasons which even if you believe are noble ones, may not always be used for noble purpose. And you can't put the genii back in the bottle once it's out.

Israel is much more targeted in its anti-terrorism efforts. The Mossad gathers information about people who are risks...not the general populace.

Do you think that the WOT nullifies the 4th Amendment?

 

[jillian]

We still could have prevented 9/11 by doing something that may have been illegal. Ask me if a give a shit if we stop terrorism legally or illegally.

We might have been able to stop 9/11 legally. The FBI had all the info at its fingertips. No one listened.... They knew about the flying lessons; they knew where they were staying. All they had to do was keep digging...LEGALLY.

This is simply a blatant power grab.

 

[dilloduck]

We might have been able to stop 9/11 legally. The FBI had all the info at its fingertips. No one listened.... They knew about the flying lessons; they knew where they were staying. All they had to do was keep digging...LEGALLY.

This is simply a blatant power grab.

Really? Whoever gets the most phone numbers wins?