NRA General Counsel Robert Dowlut Convicted of Murder

[WinterBorn]

Here are some facts that might help educate you.

The last info I saw showed the whitetail deer herd in Alabama alone was estimated to be around 1.5 million animals. Wildlife biologists say we need to remove a third of them every year to maintain a stable herd. How do you propose that the wealthy hunters kill 500,000 animals every year? Or how do you propose to remove those animals?

Safari International donates over 400,000 lbs of meat annually. This gives food banks, homeless shelters and soup kitchens at least 1.6 million servings of high quality protein that does not have steroids or antibiotics in it.

 

[WinterBorn]

[Q

If the shooting happened just after sunrise, the agents were prowling around the property at night.

It does not change any of the facts. Sammy Weaver was murdered by federal agents who did not identify themselves and wore no identifying badges or insignia.

6:45, the sun was up, and everyone could see who everyone was.

Sammy the Nazi was told they were federal agents and shot at them anyway. But that kid probably had more balls than you do. YOu just talk smack about shooting the government.

Who told him they were federal agents?? Or did they tell him AFTER they shot him in the back?

More lies and attempts at distraction? Where have I talked smack about shooting the gov't?? Come on, Sparky, show us all?? Or admit you are lying again. I'm challenging you to show where I have talked smack about shooting the gov't.

You the one who thinks Nancy needed to be armed for the Zombie Apocolypse because we needs to fight us the gummit. Come one, why don't you spineless asshole own your bullshit rhetoric.

The federal agents identified themselves. And they had been after these Nazis for months. But there were crazy Nazi fucks who took pot shots at anyone who got too close.

Lying again? I did not say Nancy Lanza needed to be armed for a Zombie Apocalypse.

I am happy to own what I say. The problem is, you have a habit of lying about what I said.


No, the federal agents did not identify themselves. And while the prosecution and setting up of Randy Weaver had been going on for months, the feds had not been on their property or seen by the Weavers. This was the feds first foray into the woods around the Weaver cabin. So, once again, you are lying about what actually happened. I guess that makes it easier to denigrate the family.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

No, that won't happen either.

But, for the sake of argument, lets say it does. How do you propose the state conservation agencies replace the money in their budgets that hunters put there?? Often it is the lion's share of the budget. Going to replace that with federal money?

And how would you propose the animal populations be controlled?

Oh, and will you and the other anti-gun nuts be donating hundreds of thousands of pounds of meat to various food banks, soup kitchens and homeless shelters?

Yeah, guy, please try to convince us your cruelty to animals has redeeming social value.

My hunting is far less cruel than death by starvation or disease. But I see you have no answers for the questions I asked.

Gee, however did those poor animals get by without you?

Awww look, someone is clueless and trying to be sarcastic.

Those animals got by without us when there were predators to keep their number in check. Not many big predators in the lower states.

Feel free to counter any point I made concerning hunting and hunters. My guess is that you cannot, so you are sticking with petty remarks. Typical.

Naw, man, I'm just having fun watching you try to spin your sadism as a public service.

Let's be honest, you just get off on killing things, don't you?

I enjoy hunting. The killing is only a minor part of that. It is a predator/prey relationship. It requires no spin. I go to great lengths, considerable expense and some physical discomfort to make sure all my kills are as humane as possible. In 35 years of hunting, I have had only one deer run after I shot it. I tracked it less than 100 yards before I found the carcass. The rest fell immediately or almost immediately. Certainly much less painful than slow starvation or being hit by a car and suffering. My hunting also removes invasive species from our environment. The feral hogs are a huge problem in many areas.

And, other than coyote, all of the animals I hunt are eaten. Either I eat them or friends & family do. tasty meat that is far more healthful than what you buy in the grocery store. Plus, I am willing to kill the meat I eat. Unlike you, who pays someone else to kill it and sell it to you wrapped in plastic & styrofoam.

 

[WinterBorn]

More info for your education:

Populations

According to the website above, the current deer population in the US is around 20 million animals. Given adequate food that population can double every 2-3 years. To maintain a stable herd, as I said before, requires the removal of more than 6.5 million animals. But your brilliant plan is to limit hunting to only the top 1%??

 

[JoeB131]

[
Lying again? I did not say Nancy Lanza needed to be armed for a Zombie Apocalypse.

I am happy to own what I say. The problem is, you have a habit of lying about what I said.


No, the federal agents did not identify themselves. And while the prosecution and setting up of Randy Weaver had been going on for months, the feds had not been on their property or seen by the Weavers. This was the feds first foray into the woods around the Weaver cabin. So, once again, you are lying about what actually happened. I guess that makes it easier to denigrate the family.

Uh, this Nazi endangered his family by engaging in a standoff with the Federal Government.

And, no, this wasn't the first foray. They had arrested him several months earlier by posing as interested buyers of his property.

This was a family of inbred Nazi degenerates who murdered a federal officer. I don't have to "denigrate" them.

 

[WinterBorn]

[
Lying again? I did not say Nancy Lanza needed to be armed for a Zombie Apocalypse.

I am happy to own what I say. The problem is, you have a habit of lying about what I said.


No, the federal agents did not identify themselves. And while the prosecution and setting up of Randy Weaver had been going on for months, the feds had not been on their property or seen by the Weavers. This was the feds first foray into the woods around the Weaver cabin. So, once again, you are lying about what actually happened. I guess that makes it easier to denigrate the family.

Uh, this Nazi endangered his family by engaging in a standoff with the Federal Government.

And, no, this wasn't the first foray. They had arrested him several months earlier by posing as interested buyers of his property.

This was a family of inbred Nazi degenerates who murdered a federal officer. I don't have to "denigrate" them.

The standoff started after this. There were no feds around, to the Weaver's knowledge, prior to this night. There is absolutely no way Sammy Weaver could have known these men in camo clothing, with no identifying insignia, were federal agents. They had just shot his dog and he fired a couple of shots their way and ran. he was shot in the back, never knowing who killed him. Your attempts to twist the facts is laughable. Not surprising, but laughable.

Care to offer any evidence that there was any inbreeding? Or how about any degenerate behavior? Or were those just two more lies?

 

[WinterBorn]

[
Lying again? I did not say Nancy Lanza needed to be armed for a Zombie Apocalypse.

I am happy to own what I say. The problem is, you have a habit of lying about what I said.


No, the federal agents did not identify themselves. And while the prosecution and setting up of Randy Weaver had been going on for months, the feds had not been on their property or seen by the Weavers. This was the feds first foray into the woods around the Weaver cabin. So, once again, you are lying about what actually happened. I guess that makes it easier to denigrate the family.

Uh, this Nazi endangered his family by engaging in a standoff with the Federal Government.

And, no, this wasn't the first foray. They had arrested him several months earlier by posing as interested buyers of his property.

This was a family of inbred Nazi degenerates who murdered a federal officer. I don't have to "denigrate" them.

Also, since it was after daybreak, Degan would have seen that it was a 14 year old boy and that he was leaving when he shot him in the back. Some hero you have there.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The standoff started after this. There were no feds around, to the Weaver's knowledge, prior to this night. There is absolutely no way Sammy Weaver could have known these men in camo clothing, with no identifying insignia, were federal agents. They had just shot his dog and he fired a couple of shots their way and ran. he was shot in the back, never knowing who killed him. Your attempts to twist the facts is laughable. Not surprising, but laughable.

Care to offer any evidence that there was any inbreeding? Or how about any degenerate behavior? Or were those just two more lies?

You mean other than being Nazis?

"But, but, but, they weren't Nazis. They were the most wonderfulest people in the world!"

Sadly, the internet is full of shit by Nazis and Gun Assholes trying to make these people into heroes, but if you look hard enough, you can find an unbiased source.

The Randy Weaver Ruby Ridge Trial An Account

Weaver never had any intention of returning for his court date. A letter written by Vicki to the U. S. Attorney for Idaho (addressed in the letter as the "Servant of the Queen of Babylon") promised they "will not bow to your evil commandments...whether we live or whether we die." When the February court date passed, with Randy as a no-show, a failure to appear warrant was issued for Weaver's arrest and the case sent to the U. S. Marshal's Service. In light of what became a constant stream of threatening letters to the federal government, Dave Hunt, deputy U. S. Marshal, reluctantly considered calling in Special Operations Group (SOG), an elite marshals force used for raids and difficult fugitive cases.

Hmmmm..

And then you have this.

The presence of children complicated the Marshal's Service task, especially given Randy Weaver's practice of sending his gun-toting children out in front of him to greet strangers.

Swell guy you make a hero out of, someone who uses children as human shields.

A SOG surveillance team consisting of six marshals entered the Weaver property on August 21, 1992, with the intent of scouting out positions for an undercover plan to capture Weaver. At about 10:45 a.m., near the end of the operation, three marshals were moving back down the mountain to rejoin their other comrades. The Weaver's yellow Lab, Striker, had caught a whiff and ran down the road to investigate, followed by Sammy Weaver and Kevin Harris. The dog closed in on the retreating three marshals, Arthur Roderick, Larry Cooper, and 15-year SOG veteran Billy Degan. Soon the dog had Cooper cornered. As Harris came up behind the dog, Cooper rose and shouted, "Back off! U.S. Marshal!" Seconds later, from behind a stump, Degan rose to his knee and shouted, "Freeze! U.S. Marshal!"


Wait, wait? WHat was that? THey DID Identify themselves? It was 10:45 AM, as in "not dark out".

But, man, they were just fighting for gun rights, man. They were like awesome people being oppressed by the government.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Also, since it was after daybreak, Degan would have seen that it was a 14 year old boy and that he was leaving when he shot him in the back. Some hero you have there.

Really? Frankly, bullets start flying, you don't have time to card people.

Point was, you claimed they shot these folks at night. It was actually 10:45 in the morning.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

Also, since it was after daybreak, Degan would have seen that it was a 14 year old boy and that he was leaving when he shot him in the back. Some hero you have there.

Really? Frankly, bullets start flying, you don't have time to card people.

Point was, you claimed they shot these folks at night. It was actually 10:45 in the morning.

Where did you get that info? All I have seen is much earlier.

Also, if these agents were worth a shit they would have recognized the Sammy.

And when have you been in a situation where bullets were flying?

 

[WinterBorn]

[

The standoff started after this. There were no feds around, to the Weaver's knowledge, prior to this night. There is absolutely no way Sammy Weaver could have known these men in camo clothing, with no identifying insignia, were federal agents. They had just shot his dog and he fired a couple of shots their way and ran. he was shot in the back, never knowing who killed him. Your attempts to twist the facts is laughable. Not surprising, but laughable.

Care to offer any evidence that there was any inbreeding? Or how about any degenerate behavior? Or were those just two more lies?

You mean other than being Nazis?

"But, but, but, they weren't Nazis. They were the most wonderfulest people in the world!"

Sadly, the internet is full of shit by Nazis and Gun Assholes trying to make these people into heroes, but if you look hard enough, you can find an unbiased source.

The Randy Weaver Ruby Ridge Trial An Account

Weaver never had any intention of returning for his court date. A letter written by Vicki to the U. S. Attorney for Idaho (addressed in the letter as the "Servant of the Queen of Babylon") promised they "will not bow to your evil commandments...whether we live or whether we die." When the February court date passed, with Randy as a no-show, a failure to appear warrant was issued for Weaver's arrest and the case sent to the U. S. Marshal's Service. In light of what became a constant stream of threatening letters to the federal government, Dave Hunt, deputy U. S. Marshal, reluctantly considered calling in Special Operations Group (SOG), an elite marshals force used for raids and difficult fugitive cases.

Hmmmm..

And then you have this.

The presence of children complicated the Marshal's Service task, especially given Randy Weaver's practice of sending his gun-toting children out in front of him to greet strangers.

Swell guy you make a hero out of, someone who uses children as human shields.

A SOG surveillance team consisting of six marshals entered the Weaver property on August 21, 1992, with the intent of scouting out positions for an undercover plan to capture Weaver. At about 10:45 a.m., near the end of the operation, three marshals were moving back down the mountain to rejoin their other comrades. The Weaver's yellow Lab, Striker, had caught a whiff and ran down the road to investigate, followed by Sammy Weaver and Kevin Harris. The dog closed in on the retreating three marshals, Arthur Roderick, Larry Cooper, and 15-year SOG veteran Billy Degan. Soon the dog had Cooper cornered. As Harris came up behind the dog, Cooper rose and shouted, "Back off! U.S. Marshal!" Seconds later, from behind a stump, Degan rose to his knee and shouted, "Freeze! U.S. Marshal!"


Wait, wait? WHat was that? THey DID Identify themselves? It was 10:45 AM, as in "not dark out".

But, man, they were just fighting for gun rights, man. They were like awesome people being oppressed by the government.

Wow, you finally found an actual account of what went on. Although, as I have said before, the accounts differ.

The accounts I have read give a somewhat different account. Such as the comments earlier that the marshals did not identify themselves and that the shooting happened between 6am and 7am.

The account in the link you posted also shows the gov't agents were fully aware that there were children at the cabin, and were aware who they were. They would have known who Sammy was. So one of them knew he was a kid and still shot him in the back.

 

[WinterBorn]

I notice you backed away from the hunting discussion. I guess you realized the folly there?

 

[JoeB131]

The accounts I have read give a somewhat different account.

you should probably spend less time on Gun Nutter websites, then.

When you give kids weapons and train them to shoot federal agents, the designation of "child" becomes meaningless.

 

[JoeB131]

I notice you backed away from the hunting discussion. I guess you realized the folly there?

Naw, just got bored with you trying to rationalize your sadism as a public service. I'm actually kind of getting bored with this entire thread, actually.

 

[WinterBorn]

The accounts I have read give a somewhat different account.

you should probably spend less time on Gun Nutter websites, then.

When you give kids weapons and train them to shoot federal agents, the designation of "child" becomes meaningless.

Well, since a high ranking agent with the FBI questioned the account of the events and stated that the charges against Weaver were bogus, I think the one you found might be lacking some fundamental elements. Like accuracy.

And the account you quoted had Sammy Weaver listed as 13 years old. That is a child. And that he was shot in the back shows the agents were guilty of murdering a child.

 

[WinterBorn]

I notice you backed away from the hunting discussion. I guess you realized the folly there?

Naw, just got bored with you trying to rationalize your sadism as a public service. I'm actually kind of getting bored with this entire thread, actually.

I would imagine you ARE tired of this thread. Having your lies repeatedly pointed out and exposed would get tiresome.

What you claim is my "sadism" is a time honored tradition. And, as I have said before, at least I have the decency to kill my own meat and not rely on someone else to do the dirty work and then claim my own innocence. lol

Feel free to find a new thread in which to tell your lies. It seems to be a habit with you. But the fundamental facts remain the same. And you have not disputed the ones I presented.

 

[JoeB131]

The accounts I have read give a somewhat different account.

you should probably spend less time on Gun Nutter websites, then.

When you give kids weapons and train them to shoot federal agents, the designation of "child" becomes meaningless.

Well, since a high ranking agent with the FBI questioned the account of the events and stated that the charges against Weaver were bogus, I think the one you found might be lacking some fundamental elements. Like accuracy.

And the account you quoted had Sammy Weaver listed as 13 years old. That is a child. And that he was shot in the back shows the agents were guilty of murdering a child.

No, they executed a NAZI who was firing on federal agents.

Seriously, how many hate crimes would that little fuck have been involved in had he lived?

Retroactive abortion. I'm all for it.

 

[JoeB131]

[

I would imagine you ARE tired of this thread. Having your lies repeatedly pointed out and exposed would get tiresome.
d.

No, what bores me is that you are kind of fucking nuts, and you are totally good with that. We have 32,000 gun deaths and 78,000 gun injuries in this country every year because people like you aren't laughed at.

 

[JoeB131]

Unwatch. i'm done.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

I would imagine you ARE tired of this thread. Having your lies repeatedly pointed out and exposed would get tiresome.
d.

No, what bores me is that you are kind of fucking nuts, and you are totally good with that. We have 32,000 gun deaths and 78,000 gun injuries in this country every year because people like you aren't laughed at.

We have less than 10,000 gun related murders a year and over 100,000 instances where a privately owned gun stopped a crime. Your twisting of the facts and ridiculous claim that banning guns would stop people determined to commit suicide are routinely ridiculed by people like me. So the public sees them as lies.

I am not laughed at because I do not lie. (unlike you)

I am not nuts. I am not the one celebrating deaths. I am not the one lying over and over.