Now. here IS stupid. bigly

Xanzia

Rookie
Feb 1, 2017
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Trump likes tariffs! He thinks it will protect American jobs? Jobs for the workers?
No. Economic research from any country, including America. says NO, it does not create more jobs. It costs jobs, it may kill unwanted imports, but it also kills off vital American exports to the same countries, and more obviously raises prices to ordinary consumers here.

Also, if Trump puts tariffs on a product from country A, then countries B, C. D. E etc...will just fill the gap at the old prices. So, there is no real change.

So far, all we have so far are higher prices and 1000s of American lost jobs.

There is something else - What do tariffs do? OF COURSE - they make money for business owners and CEO's (people Trump has things in common with). A lot of money for his club - billions. Only for them and nobody else.

Trump's tariffs, or any tariffs put on any country cost American jobs, and cost the consumer more. particularly lower income (yes! working class) people. So American construction workers lose again, and the American Dream of home ownership become impossible for 100,000s of American people. CEOs are OK though. Let's forget about CEOs - Trump voters don't understand that stuff too well. But just know that the poorest Americans suffer most from tariffs while richer consumers pay less - but everybody suffers.

Sure, Trump has A LOT of power to mess with trade and tariffs - another of the many problems with his "flawed democracy". His biggest power to play with trade is to use the "at war" method. For this, America just has to be at war - so. it can be at war with Syria or Afghanistan and put tariffs on Canada. Make sense? Nope. Another good method is the "security risk", and leaking jobs could be seen a "risk" if the president says it is. But WOW! isn't it ironic that tariffs actually cost jobs. Make sense? Nope.

Trump & Co. hasn't said which method they have used to attack Canada or will use to attack others, not that it really matters at the end. Bush, in 2002, did the same kind of thing on Canadian soft-wood. But, the international courts sided with Canada. Now, here we go again. More nonsense from this foolish Orange Mascot.

How far will he go? The further he goes the worse America gets.

NONE OF TRUMP's MISTAKES MAKE SENSE UNLESS YOU ARE A CEO....UNDERSTAND?
 
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Trump likes tariffs! He thinks it will protect American jobs? Jobs for the workers?
No. Economic research from any country, including America. says NO, it does not create more jobs. It costs jobs, it may kill unwanted imports, but it also kills off vital American exports to the same countries, and more obviously raises prices to ordinary consumers here.

Also, if Trump puts tariffs on a product from country A, then countries B, C. D. E etc...will just fill the gap at the old prices. So, there is no real change.

So far, all we have so far are higher prices and 1000s of American lost jobs.

There is something else - What do tariffs do? OF COURSE - they make money for business owners and CEO's (people Trump has things in common with). A lot of money for his club - billions. Only for them and nobody else.

Trump's tariffs, or any tariffs put on any country cost American jobs, and cost the consumer more. particularly lower income (yes! working class) people. So American construction workers lose again, and the American Dream of home ownership become impossible for 100,000s of American people. CEOs are OK though. Let's forget about CEOs - Trump voters don't understand that stuff too well. But just know that the poorest Americans suffer most from tariffs while richer consumers pay less - but everybody suffers.

Sure, Trump has A LOT of power to mess with trade and tariffs - another of the many problems with his "flawed democracy". His biggest power to play with trade is to use the "at war" method. For this, America just has to be at war - so. it can be at war with Syria or Afghanistan and put tariffs on Canada. Make sense? Nope. Another good method is the "security risk", and leaking jobs could be seen a "risk" if the president says it is. But WOW! isn't it ironic that tariffs actually cost jobs. Make sense? Nope.

Trump & Co. hasn't said which method they have used to attack Canada or will use to attack others, not that it really matters at the end. Bush, in 2002, did the same kind of thing on Canadian soft-wood. But, the international courts sided with Canada. Now, here we go again. More nonsense from this foolish Orange Mascot.

How far will he go? The further he goes the worse America gets.

NONE OF TRUMP's MISTAKES MAKE SENSE UNLESS YOU ARE A CEO....UNDERSTAND?
Trump know what he's doing, he's a businessman first of all and foremost not a beer maker like Obama.
The other countries will have to start pulling out money for there wallet and paid to the Americans, I do not see the problem ?
Americans are not a bank.
 
Trump likes tariffs! He thinks it will protect American jobs? Jobs for the workers?
No. Economic research from any country, including America. says NO, it does not create more jobs. It costs jobs, it may kill unwanted imports, but it also kills off vital American exports to the same countries, and more obviously raises prices to ordinary consumers here.

Also, if Trump puts tariffs on a product from country A, then countries B, C. D. E etc...will just fill the gap at the old prices. So, there is no real change.

So far, all we have so far are higher prices and 1000s of American lost jobs.

There is something else - What do tariffs do? OF COURSE - they make money for business owners and CEO's (people Trump has things in common with). A lot of money for his club - billions. Only for them and nobody else.

Trump's tariffs, or any tariffs put on any country cost American jobs, and cost the consumer more. particularly lower income (yes! working class) people. So American construction workers lose again, and the American Dream of home ownership become impossible for 100,000s of American people. CEOs are OK though. Let's forget about CEOs - Trump voters don't understand that stuff too well. But just know that the poorest Americans suffer most from tariffs while richer consumers pay less - but everybody suffers.

Sure, Trump has A LOT of power to mess with trade and tariffs - another of the many problems with his "flawed democracy". His biggest power to play with trade is to use the "at war" method. For this, America just has to be at war - so. it can be at war with Syria or Afghanistan and put tariffs on Canada. Make sense? Nope. Another good method is the "security risk", and leaking jobs could be seen a "risk" if the president says it is. But WOW! isn't it ironic that tariffs actually cost jobs. Make sense? Nope.

Trump & Co. hasn't said which method they have used to attack Canada or will use to attack others, not that it really matters at the end. Bush, in 2002, did the same kind of thing on Canadian soft-wood. But, the international courts sided with Canada. Now, here we go again. More nonsense from this foolish Orange Mascot.

How far will he go? The further he goes the worse America gets.

NONE OF TRUMP's MISTAKES MAKE SENSE UNLESS YOU ARE A CEO....UNDERSTAND?
When it comes to the timber business, we've got plenty of trees. Why will making Canadian lumber more expensive NOT encourage more jobs in American lumber, at a lower price?
 
Supposedly Angela Merkel spent most of her meeting with Trump teaching him how trade works.

This "President" needs more on-the-job training than any that's come before him.
Supposedly!

Supposedly President Trump spent most of his meeting with Angela Merkle teaching her what unlimited immigration of the most violent jihadists is doing to the German people.
 
Supposedly Angela Merkel spent most of her meeting with Trump teaching him how trade works.

This "President" needs more on-the-job training than any that's come before him.
Supposedly!

Supposedly President Trump spent most of his meeting with Angela Merkle teaching her what unlimited immigration of the most violent jihadists is doing to the German people.
11 times she had to tell him he had to negotiaiate trade with the EU, and not with Germany alone. Perhaps it's the alzheimers kicking in. So Reaganesque.

Angela Merkel reportedly had to explain the 'fundamentals' of EU trade to Trump 11 times
 
Supposedly Angela Merkel spent most of her meeting with Trump teaching him how trade works.

This "President" needs more on-the-job training than any that's come before him.
Supposedly!

Supposedly President Trump spent most of his meeting with Angela Merkle teaching her what unlimited immigration of the most violent jihadists is doing to the German people.
11 times she had to tell him he had to negotiaiate trade with the EU, and not with Germany alone. Perhaps it's the alzheimers kicking in. So Reaganesque.

Angela Merkel reportedly had to explain the 'fundamentals' of EU trade to Trump 11 times
Trump is a smart guy. He's not going to let someone like Merkel tell him what's best for us.
 
Supposedly Angela Merkel spent most of her meeting with Trump teaching him how trade works.

This "President" needs more on-the-job training than any that's come before him.
Supposedly!

Supposedly President Trump spent most of his meeting with Angela Merkle teaching her what unlimited immigration of the most violent jihadists is doing to the German people.
11 times she had to tell him he had to negotiaiate trade with the EU, and not with Germany alone. Perhaps it's the alzheimers kicking in. So Reaganesque.

Angela Merkel reportedly had to explain the 'fundamentals' of EU trade to Trump 11 times
Trump is a smart guy. He's not going to let someone like Merkel tell him what's best for us.
Oh yeah? It took President Xi one golf outing to convince Trump that China isn't a currency manipulator. Trump is dumb as a box of rocks.
 
I think the O. P has been kind enough to give us the Elementary School Version of what is going on.

Trump knows all this stuff in the O.P. Its the basics. That's why he says he is for Free Trade.

But, in this new thing...Globalism (Its Obama Cool)......Free Trade has become the business of Fucking America every which way possible, with leather and whips...mainly because we have been too stupid to know and too fat and rich to care.

Free Trade was supposed to involve the implied element of Good Faith, and thus, Fair Trade.

But, everybody has been Fucking us, and Trump would like to stop that.

I'm pulling for him, because a little less America-Fucking by everybody....damn even the good Canadians have found a tit to suck....a little less of that...sounds like a good thing to an American....who thinks that Globalists ought get fucked and ought to have to stay somewhere else on the Globe besides America.
 
Supposedly Angela Merkel spent most of her meeting with Trump teaching him how trade works.

This "President" needs more on-the-job training than any that's come before him.
Supposedly!

Supposedly President Trump spent most of his meeting with Angela Merkle teaching her what unlimited immigration of the most violent jihadists is doing to the German people.
11 times she had to tell him he had to negotiaiate trade with the EU, and not with Germany alone. Perhaps it's the alzheimers kicking in. So Reaganesque.

Angela Merkel reportedly had to explain the 'fundamentals' of EU trade to Trump 11 times
Trump is a smart guy. He's not going to let someone like Merkel tell him what's best for us.
Oh yeah? It took President Xi one golf outing to convince Trump that China isn't a currency manipulator. Trump is dumb as a box of rocks.
I'm not surprised you couldn't understand the importance of him placing China on a small pedestal.
 
Apparently, the trumpkins don't understand who pays for tariffs. They don't understand that bigly tax cuts will cost them and that both will cause prices to go straight up for the working class. And, some are saying they're happy they won't be paying that "death tax" any more. As with everything the pussy grabber does, it's to benefit him and other 1%ers. We've got 1300 more days of the cheeto stealing us blind, just like he's been doing for almost 100 days.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com
 
When leftist think of creating job, he think of government.

As usual.

OP think that googling "what experts are saying about tariffs" will produce something that we haven't already seen and it's proven it doesn't work. We were listening to experts and that's why we're here today. Trump is elected to change the approach.

And choice is between two:

1. Impose tariffs on foreign products because "that's gonna save domestic jobs".
2. Have an open trade and level playing field.

Most of the countries are doing #1, while we're trying to do #2. We do have an open trade, but we do not have leveled playing field and Trump is trying to correct that part.

Japanese and some other countries car makers can sell their cars in US without tariffs. We can't sell our cars over there without being slapped with heavy tariff (or taxes). The questions are: is that open trade and what are we going to do about that?

Milton Friedman, and per my understanding, the OP too would say "you do nothing", because from economic point of view you're still better off not having double tariff. If they have tariff and we have tariff, that's two sets of tariffs and that's really bad. However, if we do nothing about it, that provides no incentive to the guys who are putting tariffs on our products abroad to take down their tariffs. Why would they take tariffs down if there are no consequences for imposing them?

But... what if we tell them something like this: You had very good time selling your products in US, you made a lot of money and we really want you to continue selling it here and still make the money, however... as long you have tariffs on our product we're going to put tariffs on your product in order to pressure you to take yours down.

That is kind of protectionism Trump is trying to accomplish, which is not protectionism at all: wide open trade and level playing field.
 
When leftist think of creating job, he think of government.

As usual.

OP think that googling "what experts are saying about tariffs" will produce something that we haven't already seen and it's proven it doesn't work. We were listening to experts and that's why we're here today. Trump is elected to change the approach.

And choice is between two:

1. Impose tariffs on foreign products because "that's gonna save domestic jobs".
2. Have an open trade and level playing field.

Most of the countries are doing #1, while we're trying to do #2. We do have an open trade, but we do not have leveled playing field and Trump is trying to correct that part.

Japanese and some other countries car makers can sell their cars in US without tariffs. We can't sell our cars over there without being slapped with heavy tariff (or taxes). The questions are: is that open trade and what are we going to do about that?

Milton Friedman, and per my understanding, the OP too would say "you do nothing", because from economic point of view you're still better off not having double tariff. If they have tariff and we have tariff, that's two sets of tariffs and that's really bad. However, if we do nothing about it, that provides no incentive to the guys who are putting tariffs on our products abroad to take down their tariffs. Why would they take tariffs down if there are no consequences for imposing them?

But... what if we tell them something like this: You had very good time selling your products in US, you made a lot of money and we really want you to continue selling it here and still make the money, however... as long you have tariffs on our product we're going to put tariffs on your product in order to pressure you to take yours down.

That is kind of protectionism Trump is trying to accomplish, which is not protectionism at all: wide open trade and level playing field.


Everyone uses tariffs to some degree, including the USA, but we use it less and we disguise it less. In Europe they have a VAT tax that they apply to all imports that is effectively a tariff but they dont call it that.
 
Trump likes tariffs! He thinks it will protect American jobs? Jobs for the workers?
No. Economic research from any country, including America. says NO, it does not create more jobs. It costs jobs, it may kill unwanted imports, but it also kills off vital American exports to the same countries, and more obviously raises prices to ordinary consumers here.

Also, if Trump puts tariffs on a product from country A, then countries B, C. D. E etc...will just fill the gap at the old prices. So, there is no real change.

So far, all we have so far are higher prices and 1000s of American lost jobs.

There is something else - What do tariffs do? OF COURSE - they make money for business owners and CEO's (people Trump has things in common with). A lot of money for his club - billions. Only for them and nobody else.

Trump's tariffs, or any tariffs put on any country cost American jobs, and cost the consumer more. particularly lower income (yes! working class) people. So American construction workers lose again, and the American Dream of home ownership become impossible for 100,000s of American people. CEOs are OK though. Let's forget about CEOs - Trump voters don't understand that stuff too well. But just know that the poorest Americans suffer most from tariffs while richer consumers pay less - but everybody suffers.

Sure, Trump has A LOT of power to mess with trade and tariffs - another of the many problems with his "flawed democracy". His biggest power to play with trade is to use the "at war" method. For this, America just has to be at war - so. it can be at war with Syria or Afghanistan and put tariffs on Canada. Make sense? Nope. Another good method is the "security risk", and leaking jobs could be seen a "risk" if the president says it is. But WOW! isn't it ironic that tariffs actually cost jobs. Make sense? Nope.

Trump & Co. hasn't said which method they have used to attack Canada or will use to attack others, not that it really matters at the end. Bush, in 2002, did the same kind of thing on Canadian soft-wood. But, the international courts sided with Canada. Now, here we go again. More nonsense from this foolish Orange Mascot.

How far will he go? The further he goes the worse America gets.

NONE OF TRUMP's MISTAKES MAKE SENSE UNLESS YOU ARE A CEO....UNDERSTAND?
Trump know what he's doing, he's a businessman first of all and foremost not a beer maker like Obama.
The other countries will have to start pulling out money for there wallet and paid to the Americans, I do not see the problem ?
Americans are not a bank.

Most of the 'trade deals' the U.S. has been saddle with suck and are heavily lop-sided. Some balance needs to be restored; it's not the major tragedy we get from these hysterical nitwits who know nothing and are just babbling fake news because they're told how to think. Nobody expects France to let some other country gut their domestic wine industry and destroy it, that's just stupidity, but somehow the U.S. is obligated to allow plundering and dumping. The right wing here is just as bad as the Left in crazy stupid ideological gibberish, so we have a worse problem than Europe and France in that political mine field.
 
Supposedly Angela Merkel spent most of her meeting with Trump teaching him how trade works.

This "President" needs more on-the-job training than any that's come before him.
Supposedly!

Supposedly President Trump spent most of his meeting with Angela Merkle teaching her what unlimited immigration of the most violent jihadists is doing to the German people.
11 times she had to tell him he had to negotiaiate trade with the EU, and not with Germany alone. Perhaps it's the alzheimers kicking in. So Reaganesque.

Angela Merkel reportedly had to explain the 'fundamentals' of EU trade to Trump 11 times
Trump is a smart guy. He's not going to let someone like Merkel tell him what's best for us.
Oh yeah? It took President Xi one golf outing to convince Trump that China isn't a currency manipulator. Trump is dumb as a box of rocks.

How would an uneducated ignorant rock like yourself know that? You're cute when you try to fake being awake.
 
When leftist think of creating job, he think of government.

As usual.

OP think that googling "what experts are saying about tariffs" will produce something that we haven't already seen and it's proven it doesn't work. We were listening to experts and that's why we're here today. Trump is elected to change the approach.

And choice is between two:

1. Impose tariffs on foreign products because "that's gonna save domestic jobs".
2. Have an open trade and level playing field.

Most of the countries are doing #1, while we're trying to do #2. We do have an open trade, but we do not have leveled playing field and Trump is trying to correct that part.

Japanese and some other countries car makers can sell their cars in US without tariffs. We can't sell our cars over there without being slapped with heavy tariff (or taxes). The questions are: is that open trade and what are we going to do about that?

Milton Friedman, and per my understanding, the OP too would say "you do nothing", because from economic point of view you're still better off not having double tariff. If they have tariff and we have tariff, that's two sets of tariffs and that's really bad. However, if we do nothing about it, that provides no incentive to the guys who are putting tariffs on our products abroad to take down their tariffs. Why would they take tariffs down if there are no consequences for imposing them?

But... what if we tell them something like this: You had very good time selling your products in US, you made a lot of money and we really want you to continue selling it here and still make the money, however... as long you have tariffs on our product we're going to put tariffs on your product in order to pressure you to take yours down.

That is kind of protectionism Trump is trying to accomplish, which is not protectionism at all: wide open trade and level playing field.


Everyone uses tariffs to some degree, including the USA, but we use it less and we disguise it less. In Europe they have a VAT tax that they apply to all imports that is effectively a tariff but they dont call it that.

I disagree, VAT is not really a tariff, but sales tax calculated different way.

Let's take Germany where VAT is 19%. You can buy domestic car (ie. Mercedes, VW, BMW etc) and you'll pay 19% VAT. However, if you buy Cadillac, you'll pay additional 10% import duty (that is a tariff).

I don't see a problem with imposing 10% import duty on German built cars sold in US, just to level playing field, until they take down the import tax on our product sold over there.
 
I disagree, VAT is not really a tariff, but sales tax calculated different way.
That is true when it is imposed on THEIR products, not ours that are being imported to Europe.

Where do they get the right to charge a tax of any kind for trade entirely inside the USA until the final product arrives in France?

As they are u sing it, the VAT applied on American made products is effectively, IMNSHO, a tariff.
 
I disagree, VAT is not really a tariff, but sales tax calculated different way.
That is true when it is imposed on THEIR products, not ours that are being imported to Europe.

Where do they get the right to charge a tax of any kind for trade entirely inside the USA until the final product arrives in France?

As they are u sing it, the VAT applied on American made products is effectively, IMNSHO, a tariff.

I got your point. I'm just explaining from their point of view.

Germans are used to paying 19% VAT, regardless of where the product is coming from, and unfair to their consumers, since product is not made there. What they also know is that they will pay 10% if is an import and that drives them away from buying it.

When Germans sell their cars here in US, all consumer is paying sales price plus sales tax. The interesting thing is that if car is made in Germany, German government also got the tax on that product (thru the VAT), that is of course hidden from our consumer.

When I was buying ML350 made in Tuscaloosa (that model was not made in Germany), I had to sign the paper that I won't sell that car in Europe. The price I paid for it 8 years ago was $56K plus tax, while the same car was sold in Germany for €90K plus VAT, plus import duty.

Germany is just an example, since I travel often, and have many friends there. Belgium and Denmark are much worse.
 

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