Now….About That ‘Surprise’ Attack…..

[rightwinger]

9. Now, the thesis here is that most of the world knew the attack, and the war, were coming. . Japan knew, the Germans knew- Japan’s allies, the British knew- they sent a spy to make sure the White House knew, the Soviets knew- they had planned it, even Kilsoo Haan knew-…I’ll get to him in a moment.


But what one must remember is that national security was not Roosevelt’s strong suit.

a. The United States under Franklin Roosevelt was far from a world class military force:
"...a historian’s July 22, 2010, article on President Franklin Roosevelt and Great Britain in WW II. David Woolner wrote that in June 1939, which was three months before England declared war on Germany, "the roughly 180,000-man U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!"
U.S. army was smaller than the army for Portugal before World War II



And…

b. We had no real CIA or spies, until after WWII, when we recognized the threat of communism. FDR had imagined Stalin as his pal, ‘Uncle Joe,’ so we had to rely on Nazis for our model of a spy agency….they had been spying on the Soviets for decades.


“Gehlen Organization or Gehlen Org was an intelligence agency established in June 1946 by U.S. occupation authorities in the United States Zone of Germany, and consisted of former members of the 12th Department of the German Army General Staff (Foreign Armies East, or FHO). It carries the name of Wehrmacht Major general Reinhard Gehlen, head of the German military intelligence in the Eastern Frontduring World War II.... The Org was for many years the only eyes and ears of the CIA on the ground in the Soviet Bloc nations during the Cold War. The CIA kept close tabs on the Gehlen group: the Org supplied the manpower while the CIA supplied the material needs for clandestine operations, including funding, cars and airplanes.

Every German POW returning from Soviet captivity to West Germany between 1947 and 1955 was interviewed by Org agents. Those returnees who were forced to work in Soviet industries and construction and were willing to participate, represented an incomparable source of information, a post-war, up-to-date picture of the Soviet empire as it evolved.”
. Gehlen Organization - Wikipedia



Harry Truman had an epiphany, and dispensed with Roosevelt’s love-sick fealty to Stalin.

How lucky we are that he was FDR’s third vice-president, and not FDR’s choice, communist Henry Wallace.



Sooo....maybe FDR was simply too slow-witted to know an attack was coming.....


....maybe.....

Once again Frau Braun PC demonstrates she wanted Hitler to win the war

 

[Polishprince]

Once again Frau Braun PC demonstrates she wanted Hitler to win the war

Personally I think the world would have been a lot better off if FDR would have abandoned his Raw Deal program and instead made America strong enough militarily that Hitler wouldn't have even considered pissing us off by starting the Holocaust.

 

[PoliticalChic]

10. Under Roosevelt, the United States was blind, deaf, and dumb with respect to the plans Japan had. Either that…..or the powers in the White House wanted war with Japan, even at the cost of a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.

Even Korea, under Japanese occupation, had better intelligence ability.

Which brings us to Kilsoo Haan.

“A young Korean American would often drop into my office. He was in touch with the anti-Japanese underground in Korea. Pearl Harbor, he would tell me, before Christmas. He could get no audience at the State Department.”
Eric Sevareid, CBS News.



“Haan attempted at least eight times to warn the United States of an impending attack on Pearl Harbor….Haan consistently predicted a surprise attack on Hawaii on the first weekend of December for at least four months before the attack took place.

“One piece of evidence…was that a Korean working in the Japanese consulate in Honolulu had seen full blue-prints of our above-water and underwater Naval installations- spread out on the consul’s desk.” John Koster, “Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR’s White House Triggered Pearl Harbor,” p.141-144



Soooo…..only Franklin Roosevelt didn’t know???



Really??????

 

[rightwinger]

Once again Frau Braun PC demonstrates she wanted Hitler to win the war

Personally I think the world would have been a lot better off if FDR would have abandoned his Raw Deal program and instead made America strong enough militarily that Hitler wouldn't have even considered pissing us off by starting the Holocaust.

You have a confused view of history

 

[Polishprince]

Once again Frau Braun PC demonstrates she wanted Hitler to win the war

Personally I think the world would have been a lot better off if FDR would have abandoned his Raw Deal program and instead made America strong enough militarily that Hitler wouldn't have even considered pissing us off by starting the Holocaust.

You have a confused view of history

So in your view, the world was better off for fighting WWII?

 

[PoliticalChic]

11. The thread documents that Stalin’s agents in FDR’s government went further….and provoked war in the midst of negotiations that might have led Japan to change the course of history and attack the Soviet Union instead.

Clearly, the surprise was no surprise.

Imagine, had we a more pro-America President, a more thoughtful President…..the numbers of Americans lost probably would have been lower.

America lost 416 thousand in the armed forces through that war.




What could have happened?

a.The negotiations between Japan and America could have avoided the war in the Pacific. There would have been no Executive Order 9102, establishing the War Relocation Authority, which put over 100,000 Japanese-Americans born and raised in the United States, many of them Christians, many of them graduates of American high schools and colleges, into concentration camps in isolated mountain and desert locations. Some collapsed of heat stroke before they arrived at the hastily constructed tar-paper and clapboard barracks, where multiple families shared a single room.

By June 7, 112,000 American men, women, and children were interned behind barbed wire, eating wretched food in harsh climates.




b.Japan would have altered their target to the original one, the Soviet Union. Fighting a two-front war would have presaged the end of the Bolsheviks.



c. Without a Stalin’s Soviet Union, , there would not have been a nuclear Soviet Union, a Korean War, Vietnam, even a Red China, and a number of other proxy wars of America vs communism….nor, in fact, would the Soviet Union have survived World War II.




d. If Roosevelt had not bowed to the will of Joseph Stalin in directing our war efforts, …when the (anticipated) event that Hitler would attack Stalin's Russia, as they did June 21st, 1941, America should have done nothing...no more than relaxing restrictions on exports to the Russians...but at the same time securing a quid pro quo for further assistance! Lend-Lease should not have been the automatic and unlimited buffet that it turned into!



e."Finally, should the Soviet regime fall,...we should refuse to recognize a Communist government-in-exile, leaving the path clear for establishment for a non-Communist government in Russia after the war." These were the words of Loy Henderson, Soviet and Eastern European affairs expert and Foreign Service officer, as quoted by Martin Weil in "A pretty good club: The founding fathers of the U.S. Foreign Service," p. 106.




f. Hanson Baldwin, military critic of the New York Times, declares in his book, "Great Mistakes of the War:" 'There is no doubt whatsoever that it would have been to the interest of Britain, the United States, and the world to have allowed and indeed to have encouraged-the world's two great dictatorships to fight each other to a frazzle.'
Baldwin writes that the United States put itself "in the role-at times a disgraceful role-of fearful suppliant and propitiating ally, anxious at nearly any cost to keep Russia fighting. In retrospect, how stupid!"



Amen.

 

[rightwinger]

Once again Frau Braun PC demonstrates she wanted Hitler to win the war

Personally I think the world would have been a lot better off if FDR would have abandoned his Raw Deal program and instead made America strong enough militarily that Hitler wouldn't have even considered pissing us off by starting the Holocaust.

You have a confused view of history

So in your view, the world was better off for fighting WWII?

With Hitler, Mussolini, Togo and Stalin.......we had no choice

 

[Freiheit]

The idiocy of PCs claim is if FDR knew of the Pearl Harbor attack and wanted an excuse to go to war.........why would he leave his Battleships in the Harbor?

An air assault against a vacant Harbor still would have provoked a war.
Why enter a war with all your Battleships on the bottom?

Also, FDR wanted to go to war .......but against Germany

Good question the battleships berthed at Pearl Harbor were old ships unable to keep up with the aircraft carriers. The battleships were launched from the 1910s to the 1920s and without major upgrades and refit were essentially of little use. None of the aircraft carriers were in Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941. The Japanese had old ships as well the difference the Japanese were constantly upgrading and refitting their ships and thus fielded a quite modern navy.

 

[Polishprince]

Once again Frau Braun PC demonstrates she wanted Hitler to win the war

Personally I think the world would have been a lot better off if FDR would have abandoned his Raw Deal program and instead made America strong enough militarily that Hitler wouldn't have even considered pissing us off by starting the Holocaust.

You have a confused view of history

So in your view, the world was better off for fighting WWII?

With Hitler, Mussolini, Togo and Stalin.......we had no choice

Hitler wouldn't have even thought of pissing off America with the holocaust, if we had maintained our national strength, as General MacArthur had advised Roosevelt in 1935. FDR , however, knew MacArthur was a conservative Republican and as such had a knee-jerk reaction to oppose his wise counsel and pursue his hard core liberal ideas instead. The result was hundred of billions in debt that we are STILL paying for with WW2 vets and widows, not to mention 400,000 Americans attaining room temperature and 6 million Jews.

 

[Toronado3800]

Not to say Roosevelt might have know about the attack ...he may have .......been speclulted long time,

If he knew....why would he leave his battleships in port?

Why enter a war on two fronts with your Navy crippled?

Had to be some sort of targets eh......scout flies over and sees mty port ...prolly would be a tipoff they are on to ya

There would still be plenty of ships and ground targets

Any attack by Japan would have led to war.....why sacrifice your Battleships? FDR was old Navy and old Navy loved their big guns

There is a chance all them old Navy men had the battleships "ready for war, and in the right place". And by war I mean ready for Jutland.

I am open to discussing FDR's military genius or lack there of. My first thought is we won the war in the Pacific by building more Essex carriers than the Japanese could hope to kamakazi.

Also, this thread is interesting and shows how dangerous partisan politics is.

 

[harmonica]

..no one knew are even thought PH would be attacked
this is basic, common knowledge for anyone that has read anything about PH

 

[harmonica]

The majority of the American public was against getting involved in another European conflict.

Pres. Roosevelt did everything he could to goad Japan into attacking America, which he hoped would eventually lead to our getting involved with the war in Europe.

Japan attacked as FDR hoped.

But to his great surprise, Hitler 3 days later declared war against America.

And the rest is history. ....

One might question whether or not FDR knew.....but there is no doubt about his administration knowing.


Of course, the FDR defenders need to posit that he was a fool if he didn't know, and allow it to same his BFF, Stalin.





There are a number of times Americans were sacrificed.......sacrificed......by Roosevelt, for Stalin's benefit.

please link specifics
and/or specify the post # with the information
specify that FDR knew they were going to attack PH

 

[harmonica]

If FDR wanted the US to get involved in war, why would he choose to get a poorly prepared US military involved in a war on two fronts?

FDR is the reason WHY the American military was so poorly prepared. General MacArthur personally lobbied Roosevelt to properly fund the American military , but FDR insisted on wasting money on his "Raw Deal" initiatives.

The ironic thing is, if America had built up its defensive capabilities between 1933 and 1939, neither Germany nor Japan would have pulled the shit they did by starting WWII- a war that we are STILL paying for at the nation's VA hospitals and pensions being paid for service in the Roosevelt World War.

Had FDR listened to MacArthur and armed this nation, Hitler would have thought twice and would have likely thought that the Holocaust wasn't such a copacetic idea as it would piss off America. And even if he did pull that foolishness, the war would have been over quickly.

..they just started rebuilding/enlarging the military when it was drastically cut after WW1
anyone with extensive military knowledge knows it takes time to:
build the ships
---getting those new ships ready for sea/testing/sea trials/etc
processing recruits into the military
--training those troops
----moving those troops where needed
arming/fitting/supplying those ships/troops/bases [ie = Wake Island ]
PH was still in the process of enlarging/increasing/supplying itself
etc etc etc
TIME TIME--it all takes massive amounts of time--it's NOT like a movie where it takes a few minutes

please please--
some of you have very limited knowledge on the subject
......more importantly, you think in TV/movie/unrealistic terms--as do a lot of people on a lot of aspects

 

[Polishprince]

If FDR wanted the US to get involved in war, why would he choose to get a poorly prepared US military involved in a war on two fronts?

FDR is the reason WHY the American military was so poorly prepared. General MacArthur personally lobbied Roosevelt to properly fund the American military , but FDR insisted on wasting money on his "Raw Deal" initiatives.

The ironic thing is, if America had built up its defensive capabilities between 1933 and 1939, neither Germany nor Japan would have pulled the shit they did by starting WWII- a war that we are STILL paying for at the nation's VA hospitals and pensions being paid for service in the Roosevelt World War.

Had FDR listened to MacArthur and armed this nation, Hitler would have thought twice and would have likely thought that the Holocaust wasn't such a copacetic idea as it would piss off America. And even if he did pull that foolishness, the war would have been over quickly.

..they just started rebuilding/enlarging the military when it was drastically cut after WW1
anyone with extensive military knowledge knows it takes time to:
build the ships
---getting those new ships ready for sea/testing/sea trials/etc
processing recruits into the military
--training those troops
----moving those troops where needed
arming/fitting/supplying those ships/troops/bases [ie = Wake Island ]
PH was still in the process of enlarging/increasing/supplying itself
etc etc etc
TIME TIME--it all takes massive amounts of time--it's NOT like a movie where it takes a few minutes

please please--
some of you have very limited knowledge on the subject
......more importantly, you think in TV/movie/unrealistic terms--as do a lot of people on a lot of aspects

President Roosevelt had more than 6 years between his inauguration in 1933 and when WWII festivities broke out in 1939 to build up America's military but really didn't do it. But he really didn't seem to care, diverting the nation's resources to wasteful programs.

 

[JoeB131]

1.I hate to give away the answer up front…but, yup…..everyone knew. (Psssst….Japanese planes sunk an American warship almost exactly four years before Pearl Harbor. A Clue….ya’ think?)

Um, yeah, the USS Panay, a ship that was in China enforcing American imperialism....

Well….to be more precise, Franklin Roosevelt didn’t appear to know….and government school grads still don’t know.

2. Japan knew, the Germans knew- Japan’s allies, the British knew- they sent a spy to make sure the White House knew, the Soviets knew- they had planned it, even Korean-American Kilsoo Haan knew-…more about him later.

Okay, we are going to go into Crazy town here...

Most Americans expected a war with Japan. A lot of people didn't expect a successful aircraft carrier attack because most of the Naval thinking was still in a mindset of battleships, not aircraft carriers, which were still a relatively new thing.

Surprise????
Pearl Harbor….Did Anyone Know It Was Coming????
December 7th....this date.....1941.... 2,335 military personnel killed, 1,177 were killed on board the U.S.S. Arizona.
Was it worth it to preserve the Soviet Union?????

This is where you are a little confused. We didn't "save" the USSR, the USSR saved the rest of the world from the Axis.

 

[harmonica]

If FDR wanted the US to get involved in war, why would he choose to get a poorly prepared US military involved in a war on two fronts?

FDR is the reason WHY the American military was so poorly prepared. General MacArthur personally lobbied Roosevelt to properly fund the American military , but FDR insisted on wasting money on his "Raw Deal" initiatives.

The ironic thing is, if America had built up its defensive capabilities between 1933 and 1939, neither Germany nor Japan would have pulled the shit they did by starting WWII- a war that we are STILL paying for at the nation's VA hospitals and pensions being paid for service in the Roosevelt World War.

Had FDR listened to MacArthur and armed this nation, Hitler would have thought twice and would have likely thought that the Holocaust wasn't such a copacetic idea as it would piss off America. And even if he did pull that foolishness, the war would have been over quickly.

..they just started rebuilding/enlarging the military when it was drastically cut after WW1
anyone with extensive military knowledge knows it takes time to:
build the ships
---getting those new ships ready for sea/testing/sea trials/etc
processing recruits into the military
--training those troops
----moving those troops where needed
arming/fitting/supplying those ships/troops/bases [ie = Wake Island ]
PH was still in the process of enlarging/increasing/supplying itself
etc etc etc
TIME TIME--it all takes massive amounts of time--it's NOT like a movie where it takes a few minutes

please please--
some of you have very limited knowledge on the subject
......more importantly, you think in TV/movie/unrealistic terms--as do a lot of people on a lot of aspects

President Roosevelt had more than 6 years between his inauguration in 1933 and when WWII festivities broke out in 1939 to build up America's military but really didn't do it. But he really didn't seem to care, diverting the nation's resources to wasteful programs.

1. he's not concentrating on developing the military right in the middle of the Great Depression!!!
2. the POTUS needs Congress/etc approval-DOLLARS to build up the military--
..a. politicians are not going to spend huge amounts of $$$$ for the military right in the middle of the Great Depression
..b. many were isolationist = they didn't think we needed to build up the military
..look how hard it is now for the POTUS/Congress/etc to agree on just funding the government when there is NOT a Great Depression
etc etc

The Depression caused the United States to retreat further into its post-World War I isolationism

reduced its military presence in the region and improved relations between itself and its neighbors to the south. Presidents Hoover and Roosevelt were to an extent constrained by public opinion, which demanded that primary attention be given to domestic problems

The Great Depression and U.S. Foreign Policy
etc to infinity

 

[harmonica]

1.I hate to give away the answer up front…but, yup…..everyone knew. (Psssst….Japanese planes sunk an American warship almost exactly four years before Pearl Harbor. A Clue….ya’ think?)

Um, yeah, the USS Panay, a ship that was in China enforcing American imperialism....

Well….to be more precise, Franklin Roosevelt didn’t appear to know….and government school grads still don’t know.

2. Japan knew, the Germans knew- Japan’s allies, the British knew- they sent a spy to make sure the White House knew, the Soviets knew- they had planned it, even Korean-American Kilsoo Haan knew-…more about him later.

Okay, we are going to go into Crazy town here...

Most Americans expected a war with Japan. A lot of people didn't expect a successful aircraft carrier attack because most of the Naval thinking was still in a mindset of battleships, not aircraft carriers, which were still a relatively new thing.

Surprise????
Pearl Harbor….Did Anyone Know It Was Coming????
December 7th....this date.....1941.... 2,335 military personnel killed, 1,177 were killed on board the U.S.S. Arizona.
Was it worth it to preserve the Soviet Union?????

This is where you are a little confused. We didn't "save" the USSR, the USSR saved the rest of the world from the Axis.

Germany made an unrecoverable/drastic/fatal error when it attacked Russia
...there was no way Germany could defeat Russia, much less England/Russia/the Balkans/etc
..the Communists resistance in France/etc started to get active when Germany attacked Russia
Russia is too big/too big of a population
Russia would never surrender--Germany INVADED them
etc to infinity

 

[Sunni Man]

President Roosevelt had more than 6 years between his inauguration in 1933 and when WWII festivities broke out in 1939 to build up America's military but really didn't do it.

FDR had started gearing up America's industrial might by building ships, airplanes, and munitions, for Russia and Great Britain under the lend lease program, well before the U.S. officially became a belligerent in WWll. ...

 

[Sunni Man]

There are a number of times Americans were sacrificed.......sacrificed......by Roosevelt, for Stalin's benefit.

FDR and his commie wife Eleanor were enamored with the USSR.

Many times FDR caved in to Stalins demands over the objections of Churchill, who knew that communism was evil and that Stalin couldn't be trusted. ....

 

[PoliticalChic]

The majority of the American public was against getting involved in another European conflict.

Pres. Roosevelt did everything he could to goad Japan into attacking America, which he hoped would eventually lead to our getting involved with the war in Europe.

Japan attacked as FDR hoped.

But to his great surprise, Hitler 3 days later declared war against America.

And the rest is history. ....

One might question whether or not FDR knew.....but there is no doubt about his administration knowing.


Of course, the FDR defenders need to posit that he was a fool if he didn't know, and allow it to same his BFF, Stalin.





There are a number of times Americans were sacrificed.......sacrificed......by Roosevelt, for Stalin's benefit.

please link specifics
and/or specify the post # with the information
specify that FDR knew they were going to attack PH

Now….About This ‘Surprise’ Attack…..

Surprise????
Pearl Harbor….Did Anyone Know It Was Coming????
December 7th....this date.....1941.... 2,335 military personnel killed, 1,177 were killed on board the U.S.S. Arizona.
Was it worth it to preserve the Soviet Union?????



1.I hate to give away the answer up front…but, yup…..everyone knew. (Psssst….Japanese planes sunk an American warship almost exactly four years before Pearl Harbor. A Clue….ya’ think?)



Well….to be more precise, Franklin Roosevelt didn’t appear to know….and government school grads still don’t know.

2. Japan knew, the Germans knew- Japan’s allies, the British knew- they sent a spy to make sure the White House knew, the Soviets knew- they had planned it, even Korean-American Kilsoo Haan knew-…more about him later.




3. Here’s the context: Japan needed to secure nature resources not found in Japan, so war was on the horizon. For Japan, it was finding resources, or death of the nation. It was the reason they invaded Manchuria in 1931.

“Japan's ongoing industrialization and militarization ensured his growing dependence on oil and metal imports from the US.[3] The American sanctions which prevented trade with the United States (which had occupied the Philippinesaround the same time) resulted in Japan furthering their expansion in the territory of China and Southeast Asia.”
Japanese invasion of Manchuria - Wikipedia

But, really......Soviet Siberia was the obvious choice to target for geographical and historical reasons. Somehow the target was switched....

Stalin knew, and recognized that he’d be hard pressed to win a two front war: Germany to the west, and Japan to the South. So…..he had to make sure that Japan attacked America….and, luckily for him, his boyfriend was President, and his spies populated the administration.

“Even the most inscrutable Japanese businessman becomes more scrutable when he talks about Siberia, which is 35 times as large as Japan's home islands and less than 400 miles away. Mainland Siberia is one of the world's largest reservoirs of undeveloped natural resources (see map), a fact that does not fail to impress the raw material-hungry Japanese.”
Japan: Eyes on Siberia




4. Here’s one of those spies now! Harry Dexter White, Morgenthau’s right-hand man, and the man who controlled the Treasury Department.

“Harry Dexter White, a trusted assistant to Franklin Roosevelt’s close friend and secretary of the Treasury, Henry Morgenthau Jr., had just bought Vitalii Pavlov lunch. White had also accepted a written NKVD order on behalf of Joseph Stalin to protect the Soviet Union’s Pacific flank. He had agreed to provoke a war between the United States and Japan.” John Koster, “Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR’s White House Triggered Pearl Harbor,” p.8







5. While Japan had plans for the attack on Pearl, negotiations were ongoing, with the hope that they would preclude the war. When, in November, it looked like they might succeed, and peace break out, White panicked!!

Oh, no! Japan might choose Stalin’s Russia as the target!!!!



He authored an ultimatum that he knew would drive Japan to attack.

Either FDR was snoozing….or he was more concerned for Soviets than Americans.



I’ll provide that memorandum, and prove how widespread knowledge of the attack was known.



5. August 27, 1941
“On this day in 1941, Prince Fumimaro Konoye, prime minister of Japan, announces that he would like to enter into direct negotiations with President Roosevelt in order to prevent the Japanese conflict with China from expanding into world war.”
https://www.history.com/this-day-in...e-minister-requests-a-summit-meeting-with-fdr



Certain officials in the Roosevelt spoke against such a meeting.



6. In November of ’41 a tentative agreement was reached, where Japan would pull out of (French) Indochina, and oil would be resorted (no longer embargoed).

Stalin’s agents in the FDR government were in a panic!!!




Harry Dexter White wrote this for Morgenthau to bring to Roosevelt:

“Mr. President, word was brought to me yesterday evening that persons in our country’s government are hoping to betray the cause of the heroic Chinese people and strike a deadly blow at all your plans for a world-wide democratic victory. I was told that the Japanese Embassy staff is openly boasting of a great triumph for the “New Order.” Oil—rivers of oil—will soon be flowing to the Japanese war machines.

On this day, Mr. President, the whole country looks to you to save America’s power as well as her sacred honor. I know—I have the most perfect confidence—that should these stories be true, should there be Americans who seek to destroy your declared policy in world affairs, that you will succeed in circumventing these plotters of a new Munich.”
Soviet Mole Harry White's Efforts to Trigger the Pearl Harbor Attack - History



Munich????
What’s funny is that FDR gave Chamberlain an ‘atta-boy’ after he sold out Europe to Hitler.




Harry Dexter White, smartest guy in Roosevelt's entire administration......following the orders he was given by the Kremlin's spy system: make certain that the Japanese target America and not Russia.

And, he did.



7. Diplomacy: skill in handling affairs without arousing hostility : TACT
Definition of DIPLOMACY

Consider that definition when you try to decide whether FDR wanted war. White wrote out the following ultimatum, and FDR authorized it given to the Japanese.





Just to make sure there was a war with Japan, Soviet agent Harry Dexter White had this ultimatum prepared to be thrust on Japan:

1. Withdraw all military, Naval, air police forces from China (boundaries as of 1931), from Indo-China and from Thailand.

2. Withdraw all support—military, political, or economic—from any government in China other than that of the national government. [This referred to Pu Yi, the last Manchu emperor of China, who was the Japanese puppet ruler in Manchukuo, Japan’s colony in Manchuria.]

3. Replace with yen currency at a rate agreed upon among the Treasuries of China, Japan, England, and United States all military scrip, yen and puppet notes circulating in China.

4. Give up all extra-territorial rights in China.

5. Extend to China a billion yen loan at 2 percent to aid in reconstructing China (at a rate of 100 million yen a year).

6. Withdraw all Japanese troops from Manchuria except for a few divisions necessary as a police force, provided U.S.S.R. withdraws all her troops from the Far Eastern front except for an equivalent remainder.

7. Sell to the United States up to three-fourths of her current output of war material—including Naval, air, ordnance, and commercial ships on a cost-plus 20 per cent basis as the United States may select.

8. Expel all German technical men, military officials, and propagandists.

9. Accord the United States and China most-favorednation treatment in the whole Japanese Empire.

10. Negotiate a 10-year non-aggression pact with United States, China, British Empire, Dutch Indies (and Philippines).

White proposed that these demands be presented to the Japanese with a short deadline for acceptance” Soviet Mole Harry White's Efforts to Trigger the Pearl Harbor Attack - History







It was basically presented to Japan as ‘the Hull note” November 26, 1941

Japanese Prime Minister Tojo Hideki said to his cabinet that "this is an ultimatum."

Hull note - Wikipedia




Now….consider to whose benefit it was to have war between America and Japan.
Did Franklin Roosevelt have any thoughts about this?

Did Franklin Roosevelt have any thoughts at all?




8. I believe that I’ve made it more than clear that Roosevelt was deeply, deeply, in the thrall of ‘Uncle Joe’ Stalin, and that that ‘affection’ affected his political outlook as well. In other words, Franklin Roosevelt was predisposed in favor of communism, rather than the free markets and capitalism of our founders.


And that pertains to a subtext involving Japan.



Japan, as part of its ‘Empire building’ planned to conquer all of China, and it planned it at a most propitious time: a war was going on between the Nationalist Chinese, Chiang kai-Chek, and the Communist Chinese, under the psychopath, Mao, the one that Obama honored with Christmas tree ornaments on the White House tree.

While the Nationalists were corrupt, undisciplined and poorly led, the communist troops were the very opposite. The Chinese civil war would be won by the communists unless Japan were given a free hand to conquer all of the nation.
Another reason for Roosevelt to engage the Japanese.


Hence….two reasons why Roosevelt would encourage war with Japan:
to save Stalin’s Soviet Union from having to fight a two-front war,
and to see that China became communist as well.


Japan had to be kept from attacking the Soviet Union, and from conquering China, and if that meant allowing a 'surprise' attack on Pearl Harbor, so be it.


QED….the pretense of not knowing that the attack on Pearl Harbor was coming.


==================================================================



9. Now, the thesis here is that most of the world knew the attack, and the war, were coming. . Japan knew, the Germans knew- Japan’s allies, the British knew- they sent a spy to make sure the White House knew, the Soviets knew- they had planned it, even Kilsoo Haan knew-…I’ll get to him in a moment.


But what one must remember is that national security was not Roosevelt’s strong suit.

a. The United States under Franklin Roosevelt was far from a world class military force:
"...a historian’s July 22, 2010, article on President Franklin Roosevelt and Great Britain in WW II. David Woolner wrote that in June 1939, which was three months before England declared war on Germany, "the roughly 180,000-man U.S. Army ranked 19th in the world--smaller than Portugal’s!"
U.S. army was smaller than the army for Portugal before World War II



And…

b. We had no real CIA or spies, until after WWII, when we recognized the threat of communism. FDR had imagined Stalin as his pal, ‘Uncle Joe,’ so we had to rely on Nazis for our model of a spy agency….they had been spying on the Soviets for decades.


“Gehlen Organization or Gehlen Org was an intelligence agency established in June 1946 by U.S. occupation authorities in the United States Zone of Germany, and consisted of former members of the 12th Department of the German Army General Staff (Foreign Armies East, or FHO). It carries the name of Wehrmacht Major general Reinhard Gehlen, head of the German military intelligence in the Eastern Frontduring World War II.... The Org was for many years the only eyes and ears of the CIA on the ground in the Soviet Bloc nations during the Cold War. The CIA kept close tabs on the Gehlen group: the Org supplied the manpower while the CIA supplied the material needs for clandestine operations, including funding, cars and airplanes.

Every German POW returning from Soviet captivity to West Germany between 1947 and 1955 was interviewed by Org agents. Those returnees who were forced to work in Soviet industries and construction and were willing to participate, represented an incomparable source of information, a post-war, up-to-date picture of the Soviet empire as it evolved.”
. Gehlen Organization - Wikipedia



Harry Truman had an epiphany, and dispensed with Roosevelt’s love-sick fealty to Stalin.

How lucky we are that he was FDR’s third vice-president, and not FDR’s choice, communist Henry Wallace.



Sooo....maybe FDR was simply too slow-witted to know an attack was coming.....


....maybe.....


10. Under Roosevelt, the United States was blind, deaf, and dumb with respect to the plans Japan had. Either that…..or the powers in the White House wanted war with Japan, even at the cost of a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.

Even Korea, under Japanese occupation, had better intelligence ability.

Which brings us to Kilsoo Haan.

“A young Korean American would often drop into my office. He was in touch with the anti-Japanese underground in Korea. Pearl Harbor, he would tell me, before Christmas. He could get no audience at the State Department.”
Eric Sevareid, CBS News.



“Haan attempted at least eight times to warn the United States of an impending attack on Pearl Harbor….Haan consistently predicted a surprise attack on Hawaii on the first weekend of December for at least four months before the attack took place.

“One piece of evidence…was that a Korean working in the Japanese consulate in Honolulu had seen full blue-prints of our above-water and underwater Naval installations- spread out on the consul’s desk.” John Koster, “Operation Snow: How a Soviet Mole in FDR’s White House Triggered Pearl Harbor,” p.141-144



Soooo…..only Franklin Roosevelt didn’t know???



Really??????


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11. The thread documents that Stalin’s agents in FDR’s government went further….and provoked war in the midst of negotiations that might have led Japan to change the course of history and attack the Soviet Union instead.

Clearly, the surprise was no surprise.

Imagine, had we a more pro-America President, a more thoughtful President…..the numbers of Americans lost probably would have been lower.

America lost 416 thousand in the armed forces through that war.




What could have happened?

a.The negotiations between Japan and America could have avoided the war in the Pacific. There would have been no Executive Order 9102, establishing the War Relocation Authority, which put over 100,000 Japanese-Americans born and raised in the United States, many of them Christians, many of them graduates of American high schools and colleges, into concentration camps in isolated mountain and desert locations. Some collapsed of heat stroke before they arrived at the hastily constructed tar-paper and clapboard barracks, where multiple families shared a single room.

By June 7, 112,000 American men, women, and children were interned behind barbed wire, eating wretched food in harsh climates.




b.Japan would have altered their target to the original one, the Soviet Union. Fighting a two-front war would have presaged the end of the Bolsheviks.



c. Without a Stalin’s Soviet Union, , there would not have been a nuclear Soviet Union, a Korean War, Vietnam, even a Red China, and a number of other proxy wars of America vs communism….nor, in fact, would the Soviet Union have survived World War II.




d. If Roosevelt had not bowed to the will of Joseph Stalin in directing our war efforts, …when the (anticipated) event that Hitler would attack Stalin's Russia, as they did June 21st, 1941, America should have done nothing...no more than relaxing restrictions on exports to the Russians...but at the same time securing a quid pro quo for further assistance! Lend-Lease should not have been the automatic and unlimited buffet that it turned into!



e."Finally, should the Soviet regime fall,...we should refuse to recognize a Communist government-in-exile, leaving the path clear for establishment for a non-Communist government in Russia after the war." These were the words of Loy Henderson, Soviet and Eastern European affairs expert and Foreign Service officer, as quoted by Martin Weil in "A pretty good club: The founding fathers of the U.S. Foreign Service," p. 106.




f. Hanson Baldwin, military critic of the New York Times, declares in his book, "Great Mistakes of the War:" 'There is no doubt whatsoever that it would have been to the interest of Britain, the United States, and the world to have allowed and indeed to have encouraged-the world's two great dictatorships to fight each other to a frazzle.'
Baldwin writes that the United States put itself "in the role-at times a disgraceful role-of fearful suppliant and propitiating ally, anxious at nearly any cost to keep Russia fighting. In retrospect, how stupid!"



Amen.