Novak: Guilliani Running '08

Kathianne said:
Ok, so you agree that upon reading the Constitution, one is not going to find in that document alone, the Christian biblical principles? That's all I was asking.

Exactly. One cannot say intelligently that a group of men wishing to worship their deity, who just happened to be exclusively Jesus Christ(don't remember seeing any mention of Jews or Muslims within the first settlers lol) , were not influenced by that deep religious devotion that they shared when they formed and wrote that document. I believe that yes they intended to have seperation of church and state only because they did not want a leader telling them that they had to attend this church or that church and to worship in one certain way but the term "seperation of church and state" has been bastardized and misinterpreted in today's society to mean that religion must remain outside everything public.

Can someone honestly tell me that secularization has been a success? That all the rulings we've had against religion in the last half century have been for the betterment of society? No, HELL NO they can't say that with a straight face.

Can't wait for the first person to bring up Ben Franklin ad how he was supposedly an atheist or whatever the revisionists make him out to be.
 
OCA said:
Exactly. One cannot say intelligently that a group of men wishing to worship their deity, who just happened to be exclusively Jesus Christ(don't remember seeing any mention of Jews or Muslims within the first settlers lol) , were not influenced by that deep religious devotion that they shared when they formed and wrote that document. I believe that yes they intended to have seperation of church and state only because they did not want a leader telling them that they had to attend this church or that church and to worship in one certain way but the term "seperation of church and state" has been bastardized and misinterpreted in today's society to mean that religion must remain outside everything public.

Can someone honestly tell me that secularization has been a success? That all the rulings we've had against religion in the last half century have been for the betterment of society? No, HELL NO they can't say that with a straight face.

Can't wait for the first person to bring up Ben Franklin ad how he was supposedly an atheist or whatever the revisionists make him out to be.
Then you and I are in agreement. See, my take is most of these men were Christians, more 'believers' of one sort or another, some maybe not so much. What they did with the Constititution was purposeful, they left it so 'all could practice or not, what they believed in or not.'

George Washington's administration may be argued to be the most important. It set, knowingly and consciously the precedents for those that would follow. He had no problem with the bible. Neither did Congress. They also had tolerance for those that didn't believe the same.

Yet when the governments did get around to setting up schools, they didn't remove G_d from the classroom, indeed right through the 1920's many schools used the McGuffey readers, including those with Jews, atheists, etc.
 
Kathianne said:
Then you and I are in agreement. See, my take is most of these men were Christians, more 'believers' of one sort or another, some maybe not so much. What they did with the Constititution was purposeful, they left it so 'all could practice or not, what they believed in or not.'

George Washington's administration may be argued to be the most important. It set, knowingly and consciously the precedents for those that would follow. He had no problem with the bible. Neither did Congress. They also had tolerance for those that didn't believe the same.

Yet when the governments did get around to setting up schools, they didn't remove G_d from the classroom, indeed right through the 1920's many schools used the McGuffey readers, including those with Jews, atheists, etc.

And since we have stopped with God in the classroom? We have today's society, oh so technologically advanced but socially in the toilet.

I do not understand this weird obsession we have here with the church and state thing, I say why not try bringing back a little religion into public life and see what happens, we have nowhere to go but up.
 
OCA said:
And since we have stopped with God in the classroom? We have today's society, oh so technologically advanced but socially in the toilet.

I do not understand this weird obsession we have here with the church and state thing, I say why not try bringing back a little religion into public life and see what happens, we have nowhere to go but up.


There is NO seperation of Church and Sate in the US Constitution

What is needed is seperation of liberalism and state
 
CockySOB said:
Guiliani has a popular following, but his social stances may alienate him from some of the far-right social conservatives. I'm curious to see how his fiscal policies might be received as well.

When/if Guiliani throws his hat in officially, I can see the 2008 primaries being a defining point for the Republican party for the next 20 years. And I look forward to that series of debates.

Honestly if he seriously runs, his campaign will be centered on his leadership in the WOT, but I agree some of his left of center social politics make me uneasy. If he wins the nomination I would vote for him over just about any Dem that may run thus far. Intersting will be his choice for team mate.
 
Bonnie said:
Honestly if he seriously runs, his campaign will be centered on his leadership in the WOT, but I agree some of his left of center social politics make me uneasy. If he wins the nomination I would vote for him over just about any Dem that may run thus far. Intersting will be his choice for team mate.

Not me, i'm voting my conscience this time, can't take anymore milktoast conservatives who get elected then govern left of center. Giuliani's social stances make him about as Repub as jumpin' Jim Jeffords.
 
Bonnie said:
Honestly if he seriously runs, his campaign will be centered on his leadership in the WOT, but I agree some of his left of center social politics make me uneasy. If he wins the nomination I would vote for him over just about any Dem that may run thus far. Intersting will be his choice for team mate.

I say Jeb Bush will be his VP
 
Bonnie said:
Honestly if he seriously runs, his campaign will be centered on his leadership in the WOT, but I agree some of his left of center social politics make me uneasy. If he wins the nomination I would vote for him over just about any Dem that may run thus far. Intersting will be his choice for team mate.

We also have his record as a prosecutor. His record as mayor regarding crime and relationships within the city, prior to 9/11.

Maybe there is a better candidate, I just know that McCain and Frist are not it. Given either of those two and Guiliani, I'll pick Guiliani.
 
Kathianne said:
Jeb has all but said he'd run with Mc Cain.


McCain, like Hillary will NEVER get the nomination

Jeb and Rudy would be unbeatable

NY and FL in the Electorial College count would ice the election

Jeb knows this and we will join Rudy
 
red states rule said:
I say Jeb Bush will be his VP

Lol Giuliani will not get nominated and I GUARANTEEE that after George's last eight the next admin will not contain a Bush, LMFAO!

I think Repubs ought to look at Santorum or a Rice run, Newt carries too much dirty laundry and lets face it, Rudy is wrong on almost every social issue, he's a lib socially and is that what you really want?
 
Kathianne said:
We also have his record as a prosecutor. His record as mayor regarding crime and relationships within the city, prior to 9/11.

Maybe there is a better candidate, I just know that McCain and Frist are not it. Given either of those two and Guiliani, I'll pick Guiliani.

Guiliani/Romney 2008...:D
 
OCA said:
Lol Giuliani will not get nominated and I GUARANTEEE that after George's last eight the next admin will not contain a Bush, LMFAO!

I think Repubs ought to look at Santorum or a Rice run, Newt carries too much dirty laundry and lets face it, Rudy is wrong on almost every social issue, he's a lib socially and is that what you really want?

Honestly, I could give 2 shits about a guys personal beliefs so long as he lowers taxes permanently and decreases spending. If he wants abortion on demand and gay marriage but gives me those first 2, then i dont give a crap.

As for Santorum, Im just hoping he wins his Senate seat back. I like the guy alot. He stands for alot of conservative principles and doesnt mince words when he talks. Unfortunately that makes alot of enemies on both sides of the aisle in Washington.
 
Kathianne said:
We also have his record as a prosecutor. His record as mayor regarding crime and relationships within the city, prior to 9/11.

Maybe there is a better candidate, I just know that McCain and Frist are not it. Given either of those two and Guiliani, I'll pick Guiliani.

Kathianne, why do conservatives have to compromise? Lets face it, Giuliani is a compromise. How about Warner? Romney has no spine because of the marriage thing, I would love to hear Rice's stances socially but what would bring me firmly back in the Repub fold would be a Santorum run.
 
OCA said:
Lol Giuliani will not get nominated and I GUARANTEEE that after George's last eight the next admin will not contain a Bush, LMFAO!

I think Repubs ought to look at Santorum or a Rice run, Newt carries too much dirty laundry and lets face it, Rudy is wrong on almost every social issue, he's a lib socially and is that what you really want?

I'll trade a little dirty laundry for Newts' Presidency. No doubt in my mind that Newt is the man who needs to be there.
 
insein said:
Honestly, I could give 2 shits about a guys personal beliefs so long as he lowers taxes permanently and decreases spending. If he wants abortion on demand and gay marriage but gives me those first 2, then i dont give a crap.

Won't be any tax decreases and there sure as hell won't be any spending decreases, neither party believes in them. Bush promised 700 billion in tax relief, I believe when it was all said and done I saw $300 in tax cuts come my way, that ain't shit.

Socially and militarily is the only way that Repubs and Demos differ, economically they are two peas in a pod.
 

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