Northern Ireland (UK) and the Crimea (RF)

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Jan 21, 2020
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The British Government is one of the harshest critics of the actions which have been undertaken by Russia for protection of ethnic Russians in the Crimea and in Donbas.

But in the past century, the British Government had undertaken similar actions for protection of ethnic Britons in Northern Ireland when Ireland began gradually - at first autonomy, later status of a dominion etc. - to gain its independence from the British monarchy.

There is a excursus to the history below.

In 1911 the Liberal Party Government of Great Britain agreed that the whole of Ireland would be governed by the future Irish Parliament.

However, ethnic Britons, who were and are the majority in Northern Ireland, gathered nearly 500,000 signatures under the Ulster Covenant, which declared that they would refuse to recognize the authority of the Irish Parliament. Inter alia, ethnic Britons’ self-defense squads were formed in Northern Ireland at that time.

Finally, the next British Government - despite of the Liberal Party Government’s promise - decided that Northern Ireland would remain a part of the United Kingdom, whereas the other part of the country later became the Republic of Ireland.

Of course, an Anglo-Irish War started in 1919 which ended by signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in January 1922 and this Treaty allowed Northern Ireland to opt out of the Irish Free State if it wished, which it duly did in December 1922 under the procedures laid down.

But instead of war, guerilla Irish attacks began in Northern Ireland and they ended only in December 1999 when a British-Irish Agreement came into force. This Agreement provided that Northern Ireland remained a part of the United Kingdom and the Irish Constitution was amended to implicitly recognize Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom's sovereign territory.​



Now, we are coming to situation in Ukraine.

In 2013 a protest movement – the so-called Euromaidan started in Ukraine and at some point, the pro-Western protesters began to burn and kill during this Euromaidan.

Therefore, the Russian Government had concerns about life and security of ethnic Russians who are the majority in the Crimea - which was a part of Ukraine at that time - and therefore the Russian Government accepted the Crimea into the Russian Federation; please see the thread Was there a threat for ethnic Russians in February 2014 in Ukraine (Crimean question)?

But Ukrainian authorities started to threat with military measures for “re-integration of the Crimea” into Ukraine and in 2022 the Russian Military Operation in Ukraine began; please see the thread Has the Russian Special Military Operation in Ukraine been provoked?

When we consider sequence of events during the Northern Ireland’s crisis, we can suppose that the Ukrainian crisis will end in a similar way.

After some period of hostilities – I hope that it will not last for 80 years like it was in the UK – Russians and Ukrainians too will conclude an Agreement.​

Source
 
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The British Government is one of the harshest critics of the actions which have been undertaken by Russia for protection of ethnic Russians in the Crimea and in Donbas.

But in the past century, the British Government had undertaken similar actions for protection of ethnic Britons in Northern Ireland when Ireland began gradually - at first autonomy, later status of a dominion etc. - to gain its independence from the British monarchy.

There is a excursus to the history below.

In 1911 the Liberal Party Government of Great Britain agreed that the whole of Ireland would be governed by the future Irish Parliament.

However, ethnic Britons, who were and are the majority in Northern Ireland, gathered nearly 500,000 signatures under the Ulster Covenant, which declared that they would refuse to recognize the authority of the Irish Parliament. Inter alia, ethnic Britons’ self-defense squads were formed in Northern Ireland at that time.

Finally, the next British Government - despite of the Liberal Party Government’s promise - decided that Northern Ireland would remain a part of the United Kingdom, whereas the other part of the country later became the Republic of Ireland.

Of course, an Anglo-Irish War started in 1919 which ended by signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in January 1922 and this Treaty allowed Northern Ireland to opt out of the Irish Free State if it wished, which it duly did in December 1922 under the procedures laid down.

But instead of war, guerilla Irish attacks began in Northern Ireland and they ended only in December 1999 when a British-Irish Agreement came into force. This Agreement provided that Northern Ireland remained a part of the United Kingdom and the Irish Constitution was amended to implicitly recognize Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom's sovereign territory.​



Now, we are coming to situation in Ukraine.

In 2013 a protest movement – the so-called Euromaidan started in Ukraine and at some point, the pro-Western protesters began to burn and kill during this Euromaidan.

Therefore, the Russian Government had concerns about life and security of ethnic Russians who are the majority in the Crimea - which was a part of Ukraine at that time - and therefore the Russian Government accepted the Crimea into the Russian Federation; please see the thread Was there a threat for ethnic Russians in February 2014 in Ukraine (Crimean question)?

But Ukrainian authorities started to threat with military measures for “re-integration of the Crimea” into Ukraine and in 2022 the Russian Military Operation in Ukraine began; please see the thread Has the Russian Special Military Operation in Ukraine been provoked?

When we consider sequence of events during the Northern Ireland’s crisis, we can suppose that the Ukrainian crisis will end in a similar way.

After some period of hostilities – I hope that it will not last for 80 years like it was in the UK – Russians and Ukrainians too will conclude an Agreement.​

Source
The UK should get off of that island and Russia should GTFO of Crimea and Ukraine. Simple.
 

After some period of hostilities – I hope that it will not last for 80 years like it was in the UK – Russians and Ukrainians too will conclude an Agreement.​
Agreed , but that is hardly the point . An agreement is inevitably weighted by the two sides relative strength -- both in terms of what they bring to the table now and, separately longer term considerations. But Kyiv has absolutely nothing to offer Russia other than trying to act on behalf of US greed and their crazed need for a never ending war to fund the US shadow government and line pockets .From a US perspective they should change their crazed Neocon thinking and switch attention elsewhere instead of weakening themselves beyond repair . Russia is self sufficient with enormous natural resources which means they are short and medium term invincible .imho .
 
No my friend, wrong again.

The UK should get off of that island and Russia should GTFO of Crimea and Ukraine. Simple.

And therein lies your problem , C A . What you happily imagine is simple is actually complex and most importantly for the people who live there . But, keeping it on your terms , start telling us why Russia should exit Crimea given its full history and given that 97% voted to "stay" Russian , in line with the official pre election Gallup figure of 83% . QED
 
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But in the past century, the British Government had undertaken similar actions for protection of ethnic Britons in Northern Ireland when Ireland began gradually - at first autonomy, later status of a dominion etc. - to gain its independence from the British monarchy.​
So far you may be right.
But so far only.
 
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And therein lies your problem , C A . What you happily imagine is simple is actually complex and most importantly for the people who live there . But, keeping it on your terms , start telling us why Russia should exit Crimea given its full history and given that 97% voted to "stay" Russian , in line with the official pre election Gallup figure of 83% . QED
Because after the split of the USSR, it was Ukrainian territory until 2014? There is that.
 
And therein lies your problem , C A . What you happily imagine is simple is actually complex and most importantly for the people who live there . But, keeping it on your terms , start telling us why Russia should exit Crimea given its full history and given that 97% voted to "stay" Russian , in line with the official pre election Gallup figure of 83% . QED

It was once complex - but Russia did not try to solve existing or not existing problems - for example the problems around the Crimea - in an international satisfying way. You do not accept any longer the "Partnership for Peace" (1994 ) and the "NATO-Russia Founding Act" (1997). You hurted elementary international rules in 2008, 2014 and now since 2022. You are in war. War is not compatible with peace. And you are able to stop this stupid, senseless and criminal war against Europe in the Ukraine easily by leaving the Ukraine. Why do you not do so? Or did you do so meanwhile? Then let us restart to continue to go the way of peace - worldwide. War was yesterday. We live in the third millenium AD and not BC - nor under pharao Putin and his wife Xi Jinping. Or is Xi Jinping the pharao and Putin his wife?

 
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It was once complex - but Russia did not try to solve existing or not existing problems - for example the problems around the Crimea - in an international satisfying way. You do not accept any longer the "Partnership for Peace" (1994 ) and the "NATO-Russia Founding Act" (1997). You hurted elementary international rules in 2008, 2014 and now since 2022. You are in war. War is not compatible with peace. And you are able to stop this stupid, senseless and criminal war against Europe in the Ukraine easily by leaving the Ukraine. Why do you not do so? Or did you do so meanwhile? Then let us restart to continue to go the way of peace - worldwide. War was yesterday. We live in the third millenium AD and not BC - nor under pharao Putin and his wife Xi Jinping. Or is Xi Jinping the pharao and Putin his wife?


Or, other way, the Russians could destroy European Nazism one more time. And given the nature of the EU régime it's look like the best way to me. May be, the USA should help even them.
 

The British Government is one of the harshest critics of the actions which have been undertaken by Russia for protection of ethnic Russians in the Crimea and in Donbas.

But in the past century, the British Government had undertaken similar actions for protection of ethnic Britons in Northern Ireland when Ireland began gradually - at first autonomy, later status of a dominion etc. - to gain its independence from the British monarchy.

There is a excursus to the history below.

In 1911 the Liberal Party Government of Great Britain agreed that the whole of Ireland would be governed by the future Irish Parliament.

However, ethnic Britons, who were and are the majority in Northern Ireland, gathered nearly 500,000 signatures under the Ulster Covenant, which declared that they would refuse to recognize the authority of the Irish Parliament. Inter alia, ethnic Britons’ self-defense squads were formed in Northern Ireland at that time.

Finally, the next British Government - despite of the Liberal Party Government’s promise - decided that Northern Ireland would remain a part of the United Kingdom, whereas the other part of the country later became the Republic of Ireland.

Of course, an Anglo-Irish War started in 1919 which ended by signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in January 1922 and this Treaty allowed Northern Ireland to opt out of the Irish Free State if it wished, which it duly did in December 1922 under the procedures laid down.

But instead of war, guerilla Irish attacks began in Northern Ireland and they ended only in December 1999 when a British-Irish Agreement came into force. This Agreement provided that Northern Ireland remained a part of the United Kingdom and the Irish Constitution was amended to implicitly recognize Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom's sovereign territory.​



Now, we are coming to situation in Ukraine.

In 2013 a protest movement – the so-called Euromaidan started in Ukraine and at some point, the pro-Western protesters began to burn and kill during this Euromaidan.

Therefore, the Russian Government had concerns about life and security of ethnic Russians who are the majority in the Crimea - which was a part of Ukraine at that time - and therefore the Russian Government accepted the Crimea into the Russian Federation; please see the thread Was there a threat for ethnic Russians in February 2014 in Ukraine (Crimean question)?

But Ukrainian authorities started to threat with military measures for “re-integration of the Crimea” into Ukraine and in 2022 the Russian Military Operation in Ukraine began; please see the thread Has the Russian Special Military Operation in Ukraine been provoked?

When we consider sequence of events during the Northern Ireland’s crisis, we can suppose that the Ukrainian crisis will end in a similar way.

After some period of hostilities – I hope that it will not last for 80 years like it was in the UK – Russians and Ukrainians too will conclude an Agreement.​

Source
It isnt quite the same.

The people of Northern Ireland have a democratic route to joiniing the Republic.

That will happen at some point in the future.

There will likely be bloofshed caused by those who want to stay british but they are all well known and can be roundrd up.

But the brits have made a mess of Ireland. That is clear.
 
Or, other way, the Russians could destroy European Nazism one more time.

Okay. Suicide is also a solution. You destroyed your private Nazi army which you needed to do war crimes in masses. And now this "private" Nazis (financed from the Russian state) are part of your regular army.

And given the nature of the EU régime it's look like the best way to me. May be, the USA should help even them.

Good grief. When do you live ? In the late 1940ies, early1950ies? Under Xi Staljin Puting?
 
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The Russians don't see the things that way. They see that Crimea and Donbass declared independence and the Russian Federation recognized it in 2014 (for Crimea) and 2022 (for DPR and LPR).
Too bad that isn't the way things work. Sovereign ground isn't subject to the whims of the neighboring country.
 
Really? What about Texas, Kosovo or Taiwan?
Do you really want to go there? How about Georgia, Chechnya, Kazakhstan, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, E. Germany, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania? BTW, currently Taiwan is a sovereign state and has been since 1945. Kosovo was created after the downfall of another failed soviet state, Yugoslavia.
 
Do you really want to go there? How about Georgia, Chechnya, Kazakhstan, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, E. Germany, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania?
And what about them? It's just another confirmation that powerful states invade weak ones. It's normal, there is nothing new.

BTW, currently Taiwan is a sovereign state and has been since 1945.
It's not. Even according Taiwan's "Constitution" there is only one China. They just believe that the Commies has occupied significant part of their territory.

Kosovo was created after the downfall of another failed soviet state, Yugoslavia.
So were Donetsk and Lugansk People Republics. They were created after "the downfall of another failed Soviet state" - Ukraine.
 

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