CDZ North Korea Meeting - How Big of a Deal

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Toronado3800, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    Personally I'm optimistic and think this might be a fairly big deal and despite me having a half full glass and an almost empty one on the Donald he did good!

    In some ways Trump was handed this but, it would have been easy to screw it up and listen to people who talk about pre-conditions or demand this or that inspection before recognizing someone or shaking their hand or whatever.

    So I know any of you who have ridiculed the treaty with Iran probably are busy ridiculing this but I think its a good and a big deal. To do so otherwise would be like admitting you are a party cheerleader or paid poster I suppose.

    _________________

    To start the debate against I'll say it was just a handshake and plenty can still go wrong.

    _________________

    Still though, people in our administration now have people they communicate with in North Korea and this just has to help keep things from accidentally (or on purpose) going wrong in this ever shrinking world.
     
  2. Wuwei
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    Wuwei Gold Member

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    What we have her are two leaders, who are known for not doing what they said they are going to do, trying to create a vague future. The whole thing can suddenly veer in another direction by a puff flatulence from a 140 character tweet. Right now the only meaningful significance of the meeting is a simple howdy doo between two countries who had been at each others throats.
     
  3. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    There is a quite fair chance both loved their day in the headlines. Donald gets to post on his wall something I said he did that was positive (I know it matters to him lol). Kim gets his legit meeting on the world stage and ppl think maybe, just maybe, he is no worse than Stalin.
     
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  4. TheGreenHornet
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    TheGreenHornet VIP Member

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    Being on the

    Being on the CDZ I cannot be that explicit regarding your analysis...anyhow....your first mistake and I will quote what you say unlike some posters who try to put words into their antagonist's mouths.....you said..."In some ways Trump was handed this" --absolutely wrong.....Trump worked long and hard to get this meeting with Kim set up....the liberals did not understand Trump's tactics at all and even many conservatives did not get it. Trump had some others working with him on this of course...but Trump and Trump alone deserves the credit for this summit with Kim. Next....you said-----"So I know any of you who have ridiculed the treaty with Iran probably are busy ridiculing this" Now you may have made a mistake there....saying the opposite of what is true. or perhaps what you meant to say...........so if you did you should apologize for the error but if you really believe that....all I can say is you are terribly coinfused. The people who ridiculed the treaty with Iran are the people who know the truth and proclaimed the truth....and likewise this summit with Kim....they understand it is a great thing.

    Having made so many errors in your post.....I doubt many will pick up thie debate on this thread. It is still too early actually to debate much on it....at least until the next meeting...then everyone should be able to recognize the reality of what is happening much better. I will say the democratic party should be ashamed of their reaction to the summit..I am referring to their congressional leadership...so pathetic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  5. TheGreenHornet
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    TheGreenHornet VIP Member

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    I absolutely disagree ...and the record proves me right....Trump has kept most of his campaign promises and in fact all he could keep...congress prevented him from keeping them all as of yet.

    You and many others still fail to see the great and historic significance of the summit with Kim....all I can say is stay tuned and if you do not like crow meat...you should refrain from making comments on this matter until you can see more clearly. Thank-you.
     
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  6. TheGreenHornet
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    TheGreenHornet VIP Member

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    You are correct in that both leaders gained from this meeting and that is a good thing. Trump will at the very least get the Nobel Peace Price but America is the one who really will benefit form this historic summit...the lessening at least if not the total elimination(hopefully to be the result after all the meetings are concluded) of the nuclear threat that N. Korea posed....as has been said before....as of yet we have no credible defense from a ICBM attack with nuclear tipped missles.

    No doubt there are ways this series of meetings Trump is setting up with Kim could go wrong.....but this is not a time to dwell on the negative...both Kim and Trump deserve praise for having the courage to begin on a peaceful pathful that hopefully will end with the denuclearazation of the Korean Peninsula.
     
  7. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    In some ways Trump was handed this....the Korean mountain problem and the long term effects of the embargo....

    Fox Link

    North Korea's nuclear site collapse may be reason Kim Jong Un ceased bomb tests, scientists say

    North Korea's 'stressed' nuclear test mountain on verge of collapse

    '10 times larger than Hiroshima': How North Korea's huge nuclear blast caused a mountain to collapse

    North Korea willing to hold talks with US, ex-spy chief says

    I don't make this stuff up and sorry if I interpret it different. Regardless I'm thrilled Trump did not put too many preconditions on a meeting or demand some not going to happen verification of this or that to take any steps forward.

    Now if the sanctions and the test site collapse are all Trump's doing, great he deserves credit. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if we had something to do with the mountain collapse lol.

    If them sanctions and the test pre-date Trump then the Donald deserves to share the credit but again he deserves credit for ignoring people who demanded ridiculous pre-conditions be set on any summit or meeting. I think we agree there. Let's go make a list of the pre-condition folks from 2015 together!

    _______________________
    Far as the ridicule the treaty with Iran vs the meeting with North Korea thing, nope, I meant it. Hypocrisy check time.
     
  8. TheGreenHornet
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    The n. korean nuclear test site collapse may or may not have played a role in Kim's decision to agree to meet with Trump....no way you can prove it did and there is no way I can prove it did not. It has been recognized for quite awhile by the most astute analysts that N. Korea would not agree to meet with the U.S.A until they achieved Nuclear Capability....thus I would concur and say that their achievement of a Nuclear Capability and the means to deliver nuke warheads to America contributed more to Kim's willingness to meet with Trump...gives him much more bargaining power. China may also have played a role....which cannot be really understood...some say they were against the meeting and some say for it...I tend to believe they agreed to it. But all of this is conjecture....bottom line both Kim and Trump should be praised for this meeting and Kim's true motivation is not all that significant...suffice to say he has changed his hardline stance for whatever reasons and the world should be happy about that....most particuarly America.

    Then you say...................

    "Far as the ridicule the treaty with Iran vs the meeting with North Korea thing, nope, I meant it. Hypocrisy check time"

    You must be coinfused to say the least. Trump supporters are the ones who were the main critics of the horrible deal with Iran made by Obam....how you can surmise that Trump Supporters would also be critical of the Korean summit between Trump and Kim is beyond me...perhaps you can expound on that?

    Regarding hypocrisy....you seem to have got that backwards also..........the real hypocrites in regards to the summit in Korea are the democratic leaders in congress who praised the aboslutely disaster of a deal with Iran but dissed the meeting Trump had with Kim...do you not understand that?
     
  9. Wuwei
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    Wuwei Gold Member

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    According to the Washington Post Dated Apr 30, 2018
    The Fact Checker’s guide to 60 promises by Donald Trump

    Promises kept 14
    Promises broken 16
    Launched 15
    Stuck 8
    Compromise 7​

    Trump-O-Meter: Tracking Trump's Campaign Promises

    Promise Kept 10%
    compromise 7%
    Promise broken 7%
    Stalled 34%
    In the works 44%​

    I think we are both a bit off on the promises record - not as bad as I thought and not as good as you thought. I have no idea how accurate the above stats are.

    As far as the OP, yes it was a historic howdy do. But as I said, it could turn around instantly. Both leaders have a penchant for lying.
     
  10. TheGreenHornet
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