No Wonder The "christians" Are So Full Of Bitter Hate

[Luddly Neddite]

dont have to lie. Your posts are clear. But as I said you are still loved

I have always been very clear that I consider real Christians to be completely different from the bible thumping, holier than thou screech and preach hate posting crap we see here. To say anything different is a lie and you know it.

Lying is anything BUT "love". And you know that too.

This is why I don't care if there are some good Christians or Muslims. You gotta lump them in with the bad ones ESPECIALLY when they think they are the real christians & muslims and the ones you think are real they think are fake. .

What about those who actually follow (what we are supposed to believe are) the teachings of their god?

For example, Nuns on a Bus?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

Again, you've nailed it.

Why are the supposedly real Christians defending those who do so much harm?

And, why do they seem to be so threatened by my words and my opinions?

 

[sealybobo]

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

Again, you've nailed it.

Why are the supposedly real Christians defending those who do so much harm?

And, why do they seem to be so threatened by my words and my opinions?

Because if push comes to shove and most of the Christians you like go to their preachers and demand an answer to the question, "are non christians going to hell?", most of them are going to be shocked that most of their preachers are going to say yes they are going to go to hell.

 

[sealybobo]

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

Again, you've nailed it.

Why are the supposedly real Christians defending those who do so much harm?

And, why do they seem to be so threatened by my words and my opinions?

Most Christians are cherry pickers. They pick the parts of their religion they like and throw out what they don't like. It's what everyone does.

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes and no DT.
I know what it takes to bring those Christians under check
and it ISN'T the "same rejection and condemnation" that they are accused of doing, that doesn't work either!
we agree that doesn't work on us, why wouldn't we see it doesn't work on others either?

If you and DT and LN and others don't like when Christians preach to you that you are "wrong and contradictory"
what makes you think that is working for them? It doesn't, it makes the rejection worse, on both sides. Is that not obvious?

What does work is to address people as peers SUPPORTING each other in achieving goals EFFECTIVELY.

So yes, where you are doing that here, sincerely trying to correct a misperception from coming across negative,
I can see you are trying. THAT'S what it takes, but it must be done in the spirit of Inclusion not Rejection
or that creates a mutual fight.

And I see LN tries with me, because I do respond likewise.

But I don't see LN doing that with others. It takes so much to align on even one or two points of agreement.
LN struggles to do that with me, when I do reciprocate.

Of course it takes even MORE work to connect with others who DON'T reciprocate yet but reject!

You cannot rebuke a peer by standing above them and slapping them down. Both sides try that and it fails.

When we reach across and lend each other a helping hand to get out of the mutual mud,
maybe we have a chance to build trusting relations and common goals, and succeed.
That's the tougher path, but it works and as hard as it is, the rewards far outweigh the struggle.
The harder you have to work to restore a relationship from conflict, the greater benefits come from that reconciliation.

Thanks for being one who reciprocates and does try. We can only help others by example or it's so hard no one would try.
LN tries with me but it is very very hard. And I consider myself sympathetic compared with others.

LN and I see each other as going too far and taking one side to some negative extreme.
We have a lot of work to do, so can you imagine how much work it would take to reach these other people?
Just saying that those people are wrong is as futile and divisive as when they say the same.
You end up with angry people on both sides, thinking the other is being hateful and impossible to work with.

There are no shortcuts to making the necessary changes
that are mutual and deeprooted, not external but internal first.

We have to connect as equal peers on level ground of mutual respect.
And THEN after we agree to include each other, we can hash things out as equals.
without losing our footing and threatening to dump the other off the rope bridge we both depend on.

Why not struggle together on solid common ground.
But not as people fighting for positions in the pecking order of who has standing to say the other person is worse,
more hateful, wrong, etc. let's get off the jungle gym and stand on level ground if we are going to see eye to eye,
talk heart to heart and have a meeting of the minds.

We all have that drive for truth and justice and potential for great change,
but it takes a lot more effort than just pointing fingers and faults out at each other's expense.
What are we willing to invest in change, if we are asking others to?

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

Again, you've nailed it.

Why are the supposedly real Christians defending those who do so much harm?

And, why do they seem to be so threatened by my words and my opinions?

Most Christians are cherry pickers. They pick the parts of their religion they like and throw out what they don't like. It's what everyone does.

Yes, Cafeteria Christians - we see that here every day. And, what catholic does not use birth control and many have had abortions.

Because if push comes to shove and most of the Christians you like go to their preachers and demand an answer to the question, "are non christians going to hell?", most of them are going to be shocked that most of their preachers are going to say yes they are going to go to hell.

But, IMO, they're welcome to believe that.

It doesn't affect me. Its just not part of my world in any way that I can think of.

I just sort of shrug my shoulders and shake my head.

 

[Derideo_Te]

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

Again, you've nailed it.

Why are the supposedly real Christians defending those who do so much harm?

And, why do they seem to be so threatened by my words and my opinions?

Perhaps Avatar can shed some light on why he feels threatened.

Of course that assumes that he does feel that way but judging by his posts he does.

Perhaps it is that "group" mentality thing. If you attack one then the rest automatically close ranks even though they are defending the indefensible. Can't say that I ever bought into that approach myself. If I make a mistake I admit it and don't need others to "defend" me. Then again I am self confident enough to not need to belong to a "group" so perhaps it is just a matter of those that do belong to religions lack self confidence.

If that premise is true then it would explain the antipathy towards public education where building self esteem improves test outcomes. Those with self esteem have less need to belong to "groups" which would mean they would be less likely to belong to a religion.

Be interesting to hear Avatar's take on this but I am going to go out on a limb here and predict that he will claim that he is not "threatened".

 

[emilynghiem]

What I'm saying is that I can't let it distract me from the point that religion is made up and unnecessary. Doesn't matter that there are good christians, muslims, jews & muslims. That doesn't change the fact that their religions are all made up and not needed.

Secular law, flexible with the shifting moral zeitgeist, has long since superseded religion as a source of moral directives for the majority of developed societies. Secular ethics offers a number of competing moral frameworks which do not derive from a purported supernatural source.

Hi Sealybobo thanks for your clarification.
I agree that secular laws are the key to resolving conflicts, but that the natural laws
INCLUDE all religions as the free choice of the person's spiritual or social identity.

because in practice the COMMUNICATION among the groups, and the entire human population
depends on the hierachies and structures that USE Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Left and Right politics
as their Language for forming Agreements among members of that IDENTITY. People's thinking
IS embedded with their language, and their natural or native religion IS part of their language, perception and identity.

If it is someone's native CULTURE, you can't reach that person as well by imposing a new one.

For example, when my mother didn't understand forgiveness as symbolized in Christianity,
she FINALLY got it when a Buddhist monk explained it as having "equal compassion for all people
REGARDLESS how they acted" because the point is to focus on ones own compassion that we can effect.

This is a spiritual connection that had to be made, and it happened using her Native Vietnamese Buddhist language
and commitment to following principles in Buddhism.

So I am not going to take someone's spiritual path in life and say it has to be taught through secular laws.

If someone understands forgiveness through Jesus on the Cross, and they need to use that symbolism, fine!
yes, the languages are made by man, but the divine spiritual connections are not something we can replace.

So I agree with you that YES the rise of the secular gentiles is the coming of the spirit of truth to be established
and this does happen through secular/natural laws.

Please remember we cannot take natural laws out of context with the whole set:
people's religious and spiritual paths and identity do require free speech and free exercise of religion
so this cannot be dictated just because we prefer other shortcuts. Not everyone thinks in our terms!
many groups NEED to connect and communicate through this religious channels to function within their communities.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

dont have to lie. Your posts are clear. But as I said you are still loved

I have always been very clear that I consider real Christians to be completely different from the bible thumping, holier than thou screech and preach hate posting crap we see here. To say anything different is a lie and you know it.

Lying is anything BUT "love". And you know that too.

This is why I don't care if there are some good Christians or Muslims. You gotta lump them in with the bad ones ESPECIALLY when they think they are the real christians & muslims and the ones you think are real they think are fake. .

?????
Sealybobo Really?

Please rethink this logic.

Let's look at science and even Einstein:
If there are a handful of scientists who are RIGHT about a theory and too many are wrong,
do we throw them all together and into the trash?
Don't we use the RIGHT science to correct the WRONGS and errors?

Let's look at just use of laws and govt authority:
If only a handful of leaders are ethical and consistent,
and most are a truckload of lying politicians out to manipulate the media spins for points and votes.
Do we throw out all government, laws, and leaders as the big huge mess they are?
Or do we rely EVEN MORE on the proper use of laws and leadership
to CLEAN UP and correct the messes and abuses of the corruption and greed?

Are you REALLY saying to treat them all the same?
The right answers in math, science and medicine the same as the bunk junk online that is far more numerous.
The right teachers and leaders in religion, politics, education, business and public or charitable service
with the fraudulent political, corporate, nonprofit and religious groups abusing the public trust?

This does not sound like you Sealybobo.

I must misunderstand what you are saying, or it does not makes sense
given the drive you have to correct wrongs by conscience. I don't see you
throwing out the good with the bad, but to discern and make examples of proper corrections.

Can you please clarify, as I must be missing something here!

What I'm saying is that I can't let it distract me from the point that religion is made up and unnecessary. Doesn't matter that there are good christians, muslims, jews & muslims. That doesn't change the fact that their religions are all made up and not needed.

Secular law, flexible with the shifting moral zeitgeist, has long since superseded religion as a source of moral directives for the majority of developed societies. Secular ethics offers a number of competing moral frameworks which do not derive from a purported supernatural source.

I agree that, FOR ME as well, "religion is made up and unnecessary". But some need it so much that they're able to get past the very obvious mental hurdles of the whole invisible sky fairy thing.

But then, these are the same people who believe in ghosties and ghoulies and long legged beasties. Referring again to the OP, I'm saying that I don't think its all that surprising that some actually believe zombies are a real thing and a real threat, for crying out loud!

 

[Luddly Neddite]

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

Again, you've nailed it.

Why are the supposedly real Christians defending those who do so much harm?

And, why do they seem to be so threatened by my words and my opinions?

Perhaps Avatar can shed some light on why he feels threatened.

Of course that assumes that he does feel that way but judging by his posts he does.

Perhaps it is that "group" mentality thing. If you attack one then the rest automatically close ranks even though they are defending the indefensible. Can't say that I ever bought into that approach myself. If I make a mistake I admit it and don't need others to "defend" me. Then again I am self confident enough to not need to belong to a "group" so perhaps it is just a matter of those that do belong to religions lack self confidence.

If that premise is true then it would explain the antipathy towards public education where building self esteem improves test outcomes. Those with self esteem have less need to belong to "groups" which would mean they would be less likely to belong to a religion.

Be interesting to hear Avatar's take on this but I am going to go out on a limb here and predict that he will claim that he is not "threatened".

I believe that's why organized religion is so successful. If they didn't share some of these outrageous beliefs with others, how long would those beliefs last?

I remember, as a kid, when I first decided I could not share in the beliefs of those around me. I was swimming upstream and they felt threatened in the same way we have seen here. As a child, I wanted to fit in and be accepted but I just could not go along with the herd mentality that religion requires.

To each their own.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Yes and no DT.
I know what it takes to bring those Christians under check
and it ISN'T the "same rejection and condemnation" that they are accused of doing, that doesn't work either!
we agree that doesn't work on us, why wouldn't we see it doesn't work on others either?

If you and DT and LN and others don't like when Christians preach to you that you are "wrong and contradictory"
what makes you think that is working for them? It doesn't, it makes the rejection worse, on both sides. Is that not obvious?

What does work is to address people as peers SUPPORTING each other in achieving goals EFFECTIVELY.

So yes, where you are doing that here, sincerely trying to correct a misperception from coming across negative,
I can see you are trying. THAT'S what it takes, but it must be done in the spirit of Inclusion not Rejection
or that creates a mutual fight.

And I see LN tries with me, because I do respond likewise.

But I don't see LN doing that with others. It takes so much to align on even one or two points of agreement.
LN struggles to do that with me, when I do reciprocate.

Of course it takes even MORE work to connect with others who DON'T reciprocate yet but reject!

You cannot rebuke a peer by standing above them and slapping them down. Both sides try that and it fails.

When we reach across and lend each other a helping hand to get out of the mutual mud,
maybe we have a chance to build trusting relations and common goals, and succeed.
That's the tougher path, but it works and as hard as it is, the rewards far outweigh the struggle.
The harder you have to work to restore a relationship from conflict, the greater benefits come from that reconciliation.

Thanks for being one who reciprocates and does try. We can only help others by example or it's so hard no one would try.
LN tries with me but it is very very hard. And I consider myself sympathetic compared with others.

LN and I see each other as going too far and taking one side to some negative extreme.
We have a lot of work to do, so can you imagine how much work it would take to reach these other people?
Just saying that those people are wrong is as futile and divisive as when they say the same.
You end up with angry people on both sides, thinking the other is being hateful and impossible to work with.

There are no shortcuts to making the necessary changes
that are mutual and deeprooted, not external but internal first.

We have to connect as equal peers on level ground of mutual respect.
And THEN after we agree to include each other, we can hash things out as equals.
without losing our footing and threatening to dump the other off the rope bridge we both depend on.

Why not struggle together on solid common ground.
But not as people fighting for positions in the pecking order of who has standing to say the other person is worse,
more hateful, wrong, etc. let's get off the jungle gym and stand on level ground if we are going to see eye to eye,
talk heart to heart and have a meeting of the minds.

We all have that drive for truth and justice and potential for great change,
but it takes a lot more effort than just pointing fingers and faults out at each other's expense.
What are we willing to invest in change, if we are asking others to?

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

Your approach is correct as long as you are dealing with reasonable and sane people, Emily.

But many of those that we are talking about don't fit that description. Trying to reason with the inreasonable is a fool's errand in my opinion. I no longer have the patience or time to waste for that matter. I have dealt with alcoholics in the past and they are all liars. They will agree with every word you say and then find another bottle to crawl inside. Those addicted to religion are no different in my experience.

So while I admire your willingness to reach out to all and sundry I am not that generous. Once I make a determination that I am dealing with a waste of time and bandwidth I buy them a one way ticket to Cyberia and move on.

Peace
DT

 

[emilynghiem]

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

Again, you've nailed it.

Why are the supposedly real Christians defending those who do so much harm?

And, why do they seem to be so threatened by my words and my opinions?

Perhaps Avatar can shed some light on why he feels threatened.

Of course that assumes that he does feel that way but judging by his posts he does.

Perhaps it is that "group" mentality thing. If you attack one then the rest automatically close ranks even though they are defending the indefensible. Can't say that I ever bought into that approach myself. If I make a mistake I admit it and don't need others to "defend" me. Then again I am self confident enough to not need to belong to a "group" so perhaps it is just a matter of those that do belong to religions lack self confidence.

If that premise is true then it would explain the antipathy towards public education where building self esteem improves test outcomes. Those with self esteem have less need to belong to "groups" which would mean they would be less likely to belong to a religion.

Be interesting to hear Avatar's take on this but I am going to go out on a limb here and predict that he will claim that he is not "threatened".

I believe that's why organized religion is so successful. If they didn't share some of these outrageous beliefs with others, how long would those beliefs last?

I remember, as a kid, when I first decided I could not share in the beliefs of those around me. I was swimming upstream and they felt threatened in the same way we have seen here. As a child, I wanted to fit in and be accepted but I just could not go along with the herd mentality that religion requires.

To each their own.

Well explained. For some people dealing with liberal politics feels like that,
like a bunch of brainwashed sheep herding.

It's not just religion but the abuse happens in politics.

I run into this constantly with my fellow Democrats.
but luckily, as with Christians I can talk with one on one,
I can do the same with fellow liberals and Democrats
and not get AS frustrated as people who give up and say they are mentally insane with denial.

I just ask that we be fair and inclusive.

if one person is going to say more of the religious right goes too far with the mob mentality/brainwashing herd mentality,
can we admit the far liberal left POLITICS (not the liberal members who remain independent)
but the Mob Minded Democrats who only care about electing a eprson with a D behind the name
also come across as cultish crazies who will not listen to reason but only push
agenda -- using the same "peer/group pressure" you complain about in religion.

Whatever this is, this "collective mentality" that is so easily abused in religions
is also criticized in politics: the left by the right, and the righ by the left.

can we agree it is caused by "collective numbers of people joining in sync"
and is not just the fault of religions, but any group that does this.

Heck the marketing trends to get little kids ramped up
or teens going crazy about this fad or that celebrity
also work on "mob mentality.' How is this only in religions and not
ANY collective institution involving masses of people connected by conscience.
Look at the media, isn't that abused the same way to herd people
around and get them to jump up and attack upon hearing a command word?

 

[emilynghiem]

Yes and no DT.
I know what it takes to bring those Christians under check
and it ISN'T the "same rejection and condemnation" that they are accused of doing, that doesn't work either!
we agree that doesn't work on us, why wouldn't we see it doesn't work on others either?

If you and DT and LN and others don't like when Christians preach to you that you are "wrong and contradictory"
what makes you think that is working for them? It doesn't, it makes the rejection worse, on both sides. Is that not obvious?

What does work is to address people as peers SUPPORTING each other in achieving goals EFFECTIVELY.

So yes, where you are doing that here, sincerely trying to correct a misperception from coming across negative,
I can see you are trying. THAT'S what it takes, but it must be done in the spirit of Inclusion not Rejection
or that creates a mutual fight.

And I see LN tries with me, because I do respond likewise.

But I don't see LN doing that with others. It takes so much to align on even one or two points of agreement.
LN struggles to do that with me, when I do reciprocate.

Of course it takes even MORE work to connect with others who DON'T reciprocate yet but reject!

You cannot rebuke a peer by standing above them and slapping them down. Both sides try that and it fails.

When we reach across and lend each other a helping hand to get out of the mutual mud,
maybe we have a chance to build trusting relations and common goals, and succeed.
That's the tougher path, but it works and as hard as it is, the rewards far outweigh the struggle.
The harder you have to work to restore a relationship from conflict, the greater benefits come from that reconciliation.

Thanks for being one who reciprocates and does try. We can only help others by example or it's so hard no one would try.
LN tries with me but it is very very hard. And I consider myself sympathetic compared with others.

LN and I see each other as going too far and taking one side to some negative extreme.
We have a lot of work to do, so can you imagine how much work it would take to reach these other people?
Just saying that those people are wrong is as futile and divisive as when they say the same.
You end up with angry people on both sides, thinking the other is being hateful and impossible to work with.

There are no shortcuts to making the necessary changes
that are mutual and deeprooted, not external but internal first.

We have to connect as equal peers on level ground of mutual respect.
And THEN after we agree to include each other, we can hash things out as equals.
without losing our footing and threatening to dump the other off the rope bridge we both depend on.

Why not struggle together on solid common ground.
But not as people fighting for positions in the pecking order of who has standing to say the other person is worse,
more hateful, wrong, etc. let's get off the jungle gym and stand on level ground if we are going to see eye to eye,
talk heart to heart and have a meeting of the minds.

We all have that drive for truth and justice and potential for great change,
but it takes a lot more effort than just pointing fingers and faults out at each other's expense.
What are we willing to invest in change, if we are asking others to?

if he didn't care what others believed he wouldn't be he sharing his opinion on them

Luddly is not talking about what "others believed". Reread Post #89;

I've said it before - I don't hate real Christians and believe they do some very real and very good works. But they would be good decent people without their belief in a god.

I do hate the fakes and frauds - the bible thumpers, as I've said before. The evangelical froot loops and other "christians" who SAY they love their god but who preach hate.

I hate the door knockers but as long as I can just shut the door in their faces, I don't much care about them either. I have what I would call an evangelical froot loop working for me and as long as she keeps it to herself, it means nothing to me.

In that post Luddly clearly refutes your allegation about "hating" because of what "others believe".

The differentiation is not based upon what they "believe" but by how they BEHAVE.

1 John 4:20 ESV
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

According to your own bible those "who SAY they love their god but who preach hate" are not obeying the word of your God, are they?

So why are you defending them and attacking Luddly who is doing your job for you and calling out those who are bringing your own religious beliefs into disrepute?

Your approach is correct as long as you are dealing with reasonable and sane people, Emily.

But many of those that we are talking about don't fit that description. Trying to reason with the inreasonable is a fool's errand in my opinion. I no longer have the patience or time to waste for that matter. I have dealt with alcoholics in the past and they are all liars. They will agree with every word you say and then find another bottle to crawl inside. Those addicted to religion are no different in my experience.

So while I admire your willingness to reach out to all and sundry I am not that generous. Once I make a determination that I am dealing with a waste of time and bandwidth I buy them a one way ticket to Cyberia and move on.

Peace
DT

Well maybe you're right, and I've been taking for granted I have an automatic screening device.
Crazy people will run away and not bother with me.
Only nice sincerely committed people will finish a conversation with me
if they either CARE about the real solution and not just griping about the problems
or they are truly concerned I am off-base and need their help to fix that fault.

So maybe the only people I end up not chasing off
are the best of the best, the most sane, rational people
who are not only intelligent enough to explain and clarify points
but have personal integrity, commitment and compassion/forbearance/tolerance
to deal with the likes of me, and my holistic reforms that combine multiple problems into simpler solutions.

Anyone who isn't serious won't get far, but will likely
run off and write me off as the crazy person not worth hassling with.

Thanks DT
the fact that you look at points we can agree on
and help me clarify or fix the faults, is the right approach.
if you can help me, anyone can learn to work with anyone else.
I'm as taxing as the next person, and I am TRYING to work together.
so people afraid to even try, how impossible is that going to be?

 

[Yarddog]

Is it any wonder that we read people here who want to control what people are doing in their bedrooms and private life?

This is from just one site. Yes, its all pretty ridiculous but I'll bet there are plenty here who believe this kind of crap.

Frikken weeerd.

14 Outrageous Secrets That a Homosexual Will Never Tell You 8226 ChristWire

How To Spot A Masturbator 8226 ChristWire

20 Ways To Tell If Your Teenage Daughter Is A Lesbian 8226 ChristWire

Hell Hounds The Five Worst Dog Breeds To Own. 8226 ChristWire

Did you know that the Democratic state of California just passed a law, signed by the Democratic governor, that forces colleges to spy on students in their bedrooms? Want to explain how that is the fault of radical right wing Christian Republicans?

If Conservative Christians film people in their bedrooms, that's porn and they're hypocrites.

Just like if Conservatives want civil liberties and "freedom of choice" in health care,
they want "people to die" from lack of insurance coverage.

While Liberals who want reproductive freedom of choice, want babies to die of abortion.
No wait, they want FREEDOM from govt making that decision for them, sorry.

It's only Conservatives who want "people to die" by opposing federal regulations on guns or insurance mandates.
For Liberals, it's called "prochoice" but nobody else is allowed to defend their freedom from govt controls, only them.

Got it!
I think? Right?
Sorry, for a minute I thought it almost made sense there. Darn!

Of course they are hypocrites, but at least there is some sort of goal to aspire to. Do you know how many are hypocrites ? do all christians film people in their bedrooms? probably not. If you keep lowering the moral Bar so to speak, people will always tend to push it lower and lower, its human nature I think. well this is just a generalization of course, there are always just good and bad people by nature.

Hi Yarddog: The people fighting from the left side approach ALSO have inspiring goals and intentions.
The problem is they don't trust the motives of the other, but paint each other in negative light.

If we stuck to the goals, we'd see what we have in common and can achieve it more effectively.
Examples:
1. if people for or against global warming focus on buying out land for environmental conservation and wildlife restoration,
and cleaning up oceans, pollution, etc. then OF COURSE the focus would be on PREVENTING
pollution to reduce the cost of cleaning it up. So why not focus there instead of arguing over GW?

2. if more prochoice and prolife activists team up to stop trafficking, rape, and other abuses
we'd probably end that scourge within this lifetime, replacing sweatshops and sex slavery
with restitution for organized crime to convert facilities into schools, clinics and daycare jobs to
help impoverished communities out of exploitation, by setting up sustainable education, health services and jobs.

3. if more people on both sides of the creation/evolution or other religious/scientific debates
focused on medical research to prove how spiritual healing works naturally,
we could reform the medical, mental health and prison systems by focusing on
early diagnosis and treatment of physical, mental and criminal illness and end the arguments on how to fund health care.

4. if people for or against this or that policy on legalization, decriminalization, immigration, etc.
pushed govt leaders and candidates to build facilities and military complexes along the border to address the
problems with drugs and human trafficking, we could solve several problems at once
instead of fighting politically over each of them individually. Earned Amnesty

We could argue day and night who is the bigger hypocrite,
but that doesn't solve any of the problems.

Why not resolve them directly, and take the best approaches each person group or party brings to the table.
Why not bring the best out of people, and make things right. Wouldn't that help more people and
achieve more good with given resources? Instead of pointing out worst faults trying to make each other wrong.
how far is that going to get us in terms of progress and development on sustainable solutions?

If only people could get along , those are good ideas but the politicians thrive on pointing out our differences in order to get elected. In a way its just a lazyness on their part.

 

[ninja007]

Is it any wonder that we read people here who want to control what people are doing in their bedrooms and private life?

This is from just one site. Yes, its all pretty ridiculous but I'll bet there are plenty here who believe this kind of crap.

Frikken weeerd.

14 Outrageous Secrets That a Homosexual Will Never Tell You 8226 ChristWire

How To Spot A Masturbator 8226 ChristWire

20 Ways To Tell If Your Teenage Daughter Is A Lesbian 8226 ChristWire

Hell Hounds The Five Worst Dog Breeds To Own. 8226 ChristWire

You just wonder what Luddy googles all day?

Prolly googles with one hand

If you found anything even remotely erotic by that sick mess, you're the one who is in serious need of an intervention.

And I was googling baptism tanks that a lying christian said were always sunk into the ground and never above ground and impossible for a 22month old baby to climb into like the lying christian said.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatal

Luddley- honest question. If we are so full of hate, why are you here every day? To srtaighten us out with MORE hate (of your own)?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Is it any wonder that we read people here who want to control what people are doing in their bedrooms and private life?

This is from just one site. Yes, its all pretty ridiculous but I'll bet there are plenty here who believe this kind of crap.

Frikken weeerd.

14 Outrageous Secrets That a Homosexual Will Never Tell You 8226 ChristWire

How To Spot A Masturbator 8226 ChristWire

20 Ways To Tell If Your Teenage Daughter Is A Lesbian 8226 ChristWire

Hell Hounds The Five Worst Dog Breeds To Own. 8226 ChristWire

You just wonder what Luddy googles all day?

Prolly googles with one hand

If you found anything even remotely erotic by that sick mess, you're the one who is in serious need of an intervention.

And I was googling baptism tanks that a lying christian said were always sunk into the ground and never above ground and impossible for a 22month old baby to climb into like the lying christian said.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatal

Luddley- honest question. If we are so full of hate, why are you here every day? To srtaighten us out with MORE hate (of your own)?

That's hardly an "honest question" because I've never said anything even remotely like that. In point of FACT, I have repeatedly said that I have respect for real Christians and nothing but contempt for fraudulent, lying bible thumpers.

If you actually READ the OP and this thread, it concerns what I consider to be a very radical, anti-christian website that says it IS christian. I disagree.

If YOU say that I have said this website represents ALL christians, you are lying. Further, if you believe I am talking about you, I can only conclude you agree with the website I posted in the OP and which this thread is about.

You can lie and twist what I have actually said but that won't change the truth.