No Wonder Libs Are Upset - The Surge Is Working

Can the Democrats get their House in order?

The current House Democratic angst over Iraq seems to have been scripted by Aaron Sorkin. One can almost hear his zippy dialogue, straight out of West Wing, transported this time to Capitol Hill, where the Democratic lawmakers no doubt would be speed-walking down the cavernous corridors, all the while debating in Tracy-Hepburn fashion the tradeoffs of purity versus pragmatism, ends versus means, ideals versus compromise.

But it would appear that the House Democrats are not in the mood for cheeky wit, given the fact that they have already spent most of this week acting the way Democrats tend to act when forced to make a national security decision. They have been speaking with a multiplicity of voices about Iraq ever since President Bush launched his fact-challenged push for war nearly five years ago, and they’re still doing it today – even as they are preparing for their first substantive war vote since taking control of Congress.

One might argue that it’s a sign of strength that the House Democrats are such a diverse bunch, ranging from the antiwar purists who occupy safe seats in deep-blue districts to the “blue dog” conservatives whose jobs hang by a thread in red districts. But in the end, only results matter. Voters essentially decreed last November that the Democrats should be given a chance to clean up Bush’s disaster and chart a rational course correction, yet here we are, on the eve of the first big House vote, and it’s not even clear that Nancy Pelosi and her deputies can pass their own bill.

This is where those aforementioned tradeoffs - purity versus pragmatism - come into play.

The Democratic leaders’ compromise would sustain funding for the war, but with a crucial caveat. If the Iraqi government doesn’t shape up by October (by meeting some mandatory benchmarks), then U.S. troops would begin to ship out next April; and even if the Iraqis do shape up, then U.S. troops will stick around only until the autumn of ’08. The problem, however, is that many lawmakers in the antiwar camp view this compromise as a copout, since it gives Bush the war funding that he wants. So they’re not going to vote for it, on the grounds that Pelosi’s plan doesn’t go far enough. (True to their ideals, they want to totally cut off the war money - somehow overlooking the fact such a measure has no change of passage.)

And this is critical, because the Democrats only control the House by 15 votes. Pelosi can ill afford many defections, especially since virtually all Republicans – supine to the bitter end - are still maintaining their lockstep discipline in support of their commander-in-chief. And further complicating the Democratic scenario is the fact that many newly-elected Democrats hail from traditionally red districts (for instance: three in Indiana, one in Texas, one in North Carolina), and they are reportedly tempted to vote No – because their constituents might see the Pelosi measure as going too far. As political analyst Michael Tomasky has noted, 62 House Democrats currently represent districts that Bush carried in 2004. And even though Bush’s popularity has since waned in many of those locales, there are probably lingering concerns about Congress “micro-managing” the war in ways that might encumber commanders in the field.

I suspect there is one other factor that might be prompting Democratic skittishness, and this can arguably apply to party lawmakers at all points on the ideological spectrum: The notion that if Democrats pass something substantive, they will for the first time be claiming partial ownership of this war – thereby providing GOP apparatchiks with the opportunity to hyperbolically blame “General Pelosi” and her “micro-managers” for any eventual defeat.

Thus, given all these rank and file Democratic grievances, we have the current spectacle of Pelosi working overtime to round up 218 votes (the bare minimum for victory), by applying both carrot and stick. She has shaken the stick at fence-straddling colleagues, implying that if they don’t vote for her compromise, she will yank their coveted committee assignments; and she has been dangling the carrot, offering all kinds of pork-laden goodies, essentially trying to buy off some of the fence-straddlers by promising to pump money into their districts. (This is where Sorkin would write some of the best dialogue.)

But clearly she’s having a tough time. The big House vote was supposed to happen today; now it’s going to be tonight at the earliest – an obvious indication that the leaders have yet to nail down a majority. And the antiwar liberal lawmakers are really the key factor; they’re a bigger swing group than the red-state conservatives, roughly twice as big, by some reliable estimates. Their choice is to either accept half a loaf (the traditional political calculation), or to hold out for the whole loaf and get nothing.

It’s noteworthy that a number of liberal bloggers are urging the “out now” faction to park their ideals and get real. Chris Bowers, one of the key players at myDD.com, wrote this the other day: “If, in the House, this bill goes down to defeat because Democrats are divided, not only will we get an even worse bill, but we will also get a national (media) narrative on how we don’t have our own House in order on Iraq.” Referring to the liberals who are refusing to compromise, he added: “I can’t help but think at this point that continued progressive opposition, while principled, has become politically blind belligerence.”

Bowers and others are arguing that at least Pelosi’s strategy would move the ball forward, and signal to Bush (and to Democratic voters) that Congress is prepared to keep pushing for a new direction in Iraq, albeit incrementally. And while it’s true that Democrats are traditionally nervous about asserting themselves on national security issues, fearing that they will be tagged anew as wimps, the truth is that, in the current debate over the war’s future, there are few viable options. And the blame for that rests with Bush.

Consider this new assessment: “On Iraq, Bush seemed to be practically the last man in America to realize his military strategy was failing…Iraq is in a category of its own. More than anything else, it colors the Bush presidency, giving every charge of incompetency extra resonance. A successful chief executive sets achievable goals, puts in place the right people to achieve them, and establishes a decision-making process that makes their job easier. Bush arguably did none of these in Iraq…the administration (could) be run perfectly until January 2009, and the charge of incompetence will still bite.”

That must be Paul Krugman, right? Frank Rich? No, that’s conservative commentator Rich Lowry, writing in the new issue of National Review.

So thanks to a record of ineptitude that is likely to stain his legacy for generations, Bush has driven the family car to the edge of a slippery cliff, with two wheels dangling over the precipice. Extrication will be an exceedingly complex and delicate process. Is it any wonder that Democrats are fighting over how to best salvage what he has wrought?

-------

http://dickpolman.blogspot.com/2007/03/can-democrats-get-their-house-in-order.html
 
Thanks to the pork for votes policy by the libs in Congress, today's vote on the Iraq funding bill should pass. It should make it to the desk of the president where it will be DOA.

Word will come from the WH, that the pres. vetoed the bill due to pork, blah,blah,blah and fighting a war on a time clock, blah,blah. The military must have money now blah,blah,blah

Back to the congress. This will put them in the position of sending up a bill without a time table and pork, or not giving the military the money it needs. The moon bat libs will explode.

It gets better by the day.
 
Thanks to the pork for votes policy by the libs in Congress, today's vote on the Iraq funding bill should pass. It should make it to the desk of the president where it will be DOA.

Word will come from the WH, that the pres. vetoed the bill due to pork, blah,blah,blah and fighting a war on a time clock, blah,blah. The military must have money now blah,blah,blah

Back to the congress. This will put them in the position of sending up a bill without a time table and pork, or not giving the military the money it needs. The moon bat libs will explode.

It gets better by the day.

I am curious. why do you feel compelled to post identical posts in two different threads? Are you that devoid of intellectual input that you reduced to not only cutting and pasting others words but even copying your own meager efforts?
 
I am curious. why do you feel compelled to post identical posts in two different threads? Are you that devoid of intellectual input that you reduced to not only cutting and pasting others words but even copying your own meager efforts?

Why not address the point?

Libs are diging themselfs in a huge hole, and Pelosi just brought in the backhoe
 
Why not address the point?

Libs are diging themselfs in a huge hole, and Pelosi just brought in the backhoe


I disagree.... there is a vibrant debate going on in congress and in the country as to how long we should throw good money after bad, how many more dead americans we should pile up before we let Iraq fight and settle theri own civil war. Now I realize that, just saying that, will send you scurrying to find yet another overly long right wing editorial that opines that there is not a civil war...but spare us... I am aware that you disagree.... and that is certainly your right...but you need to know that the question is still being debated.... and in congress, making laws is still a lot like making sausage.... the process is not all that pretty, but sometimes the end result is indeed palatable.
 
I disagree.... there is a vibrant debate going on in congress and in the country as to how long we should throw good money after bad, how many more dead americans we should pile up before we let Iraq fight and settle theri own civil war. Now I realize that, just saying that, will send you scurrying to find yet another overly long right wing editorial that opines that there is not a civil war...but spare us... I am aware that you disagree.... and that is certainly your right...but you need to know that the question is still being debated.... and in congress, making laws is still a lot like making sausage.... the process is not all that pretty, but sometimes the end result is indeed palatable.

Libs voted to surrender today - that should make you very happy

Of course the bill will go nowhere since the House does not have a veto proof majority

I also love how Dems loaded the bill with such vital military spending like

$283 million for milk subsidies

$180 million for fishing subsidies

$100 million for citrus subsidies

$74 million for peanut storage


yes, libs continue to show their support for the troops
 
It's kind of odd that Bush says he's going to veto the Dem's war spending proposal because it contains a caveat that says troops would begin deploying out of there by the fall of 2008.

When Bush first proposed his "surge" crap the consensus among the commanders in the field was that we would know within the first six months whether it was going to "work" or not.

Now, according to the Conservative spin machine it's already working.

Given that (if it's even true) the fall of 2008 is plenty of time to wrap this operation up.

I think Congress is being very generous in their timeline.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I think Bush just chafes at the idea of having to answer to anyone or of having to account for his decisions.

The president answers to Congress. That's the way it's always been done. I know it's a shock to Bush, this late in the game, to find Congress actually exercising some semblance of it's constitutional duty. He's not used to that. He's used to the good old boy system where he runs the government, including Congress, like his own little, family mafia.

That all changed last November and I'm not sure he's totally grocked it yet.

He'd better get used to it.
 
It's kind of odd that Bush says he's going to veto the Dem's war spending proposal because it contains a caveat that says troops would begin deploying out of there by the fall of 2008.

When Bush first proposed his "surge" crap the consensus among the commanders in the field was that we would know within the first six months whether it was going to "work" or not.

Now, according to the Conservative spin machine it's already working.

Given that (if it's even true) the fall of 2008 is plenty of time to wrap this operation up.

I think Congress is being very generous in their timeline.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I think Bush just chafes at the idea of having to answer to anyone or of having to account for his decisions.

The president answers to Congress. That's the way it's always been done. I know it's a shock to Bush, this late in the game, to find Congress actually exercising some semblance of it's constitutional duty. He's not used to that. He's used to the good old boy system where he runs the government, including Congress, like his own little, family mafia.

That all changed last November and I'm not sure he's totally grocked it yet.

He'd better get used to it.
I see, another hate Bush tirade (and that from the "compassionate" party) based only on fiction and not fact.

Grow up little boy, change your diapers and quit whining.
 
I see, another hate Bush tirade (and that from the "compassionate" party) based only on fiction and not fact.

Grow up little boy, change your diapers and quit whining.


I think he laid out facts pretty neatly. What is fictional in his statement?

And we democrats aren't whining at all anymore. America has shown just how pissed off at republicans they are.... in a little less than two years, we'll have both the executive and the legislative branches in our control and the little republican uprising that marked the end of the 20th century will be dead and buried. Me, whine? Hell no.... I am grinning like a the cat that just swallowed the canary!
 
I think he laid out facts pretty neatly. What is fictional in his statement?

And we democrats aren't whining at all anymore. America has shown just how pissed off at republicans they are.... in a little less than two years, we'll have both the executive and the legislative branches in our control and the little republican uprising that marked the end of the 20th century will be dead and buried. Me, whine? Hell no.... I am grinning like a the cat that just swallowed the canary!

and so are the Dems biggest supporters - the terrorists

However, your party is not winning over the voters by surrendering
 
The moonbat libs will never join and fight the war on terror - they are to engaged with their war on Bush

Where was all the liberal compassion when Saddam was filling the mass graves, firing on US jets in the NFZ during the cease fire, funding terrorist groups, and stealing hundreds of million from the UN's Oil for Food Program?

Libs have a very rigid set of rules of engagment. If Pres Bush is for it - they will be against it. logic, truth, and facts be damned

According to the last two NIE's and the conclusions of the Iraq Survey Group the current U.S. strategy and policies in Iraq are fueling terrorism and making the U.S. less safe. I know we haven't had an attack since 2001 but our own intelligence agencies say it's no longer a question of "if" but when.

It's not "libs" saying this. They are just quoting the official reports.

I just don't understand how Cons can still be trying to rationalize Bush's war in Iraq in the context of fighting terrorism. There is too much information out there to the contrary and it wasn't just "made up" by liberals.
 
I see, another hate Bush tirade (and that from the "compassionate" party) based only on fiction and not fact.

Grow up little boy, change your diapers and quit whining.

Could you tell me what, specifically it is in my post that you take issue with LuvRPgrl?
 
and so are the Dems biggest supporters - the terrorists

Feeling a little Limbaughesque are we red states?

Don't you think that little talking point has worn a little thin?

However, your party is not winning over the voters by surrendering

Actually voters just demonstrated last November that they know the difference between Democrats holding a rogue president accountable for his failed policy and Republican propaganda like accusing anyone who dares question that policy of being a traitor, wanting to "surrender," or "cutting and running."

Speaking of that what happened to that phrase?

Cons were really stuck on it for a while but I don't think I've heard it lately.
 
know your enemy, know yourself
that's the politic
george bush is way worse than bin laden is
know your enemy, know yourself
that's the politic
f.b.i., c.i.a., the real terrorists
know your enemy, know yourself
that's the politic
george bush is way worse than bin laden is
know your enemy, know yourself
that's the politic
c.i.a., f.b.i. the real terrorists
[stic.man]
you got to watch what you say in these days and times
It's a touchy situation, lotta fear and emotion
september 11th
televised world-wide
suicide planes fallin like bombs from out the sky
they wasn't aimin at us
not at my house
they hit the world trade, the pentagon, and almost got the white house
now everybody walkin round patriotic
how we gon' fight to keep freedom when we ain't got it?
you wanna stop terrorists?
start with the u.s. imperalists
ain't no track record like america's, see
bin laden was trained by the c.i.a
but I guess if you a terrorist for the u.s
then it's okay

they try to make us think we crazy
but I know what they doin, they tryna put us back in slavery
check it, to get on welfare you gotta get your fingerprints
soon ya gotta do eyescans to get your benefits
now they got them cards to swipe, ain't no more foodstamps
shoulda seen it comin, now it's too late to get amped
and everything got a barcode
so they know what you got, when you got it, and what you still owe
you seen them projects, lately you better watch it
why they got us surrounded if money is the object?
why they use satellites to keep track of the criminals?
why they puttin jails in schools, is it subliminal?
cameras everywhere to protect us from one another
or is it the undercover, disguised as big brother
and even freedom of speech is limited
mad leaders done spoke up, and look at what these crackas did

and you ain't got to believe me
go 'head and listen to bush
the dope pusher on the t.v
what you think the war is for?
cause the greedy wantin more and more
we be hustlin the corridor
I would never join the military
one soldier to another, nigga holla if ya hear me
goin out to the best sons and daughters
don't be a lamb gettin led to the slaughter
I'ma keep ridin when my momma released
cause ain't no stoppin us now, dawg
freedom before peace

they got a plan for us?
we got a plan for them
and this time we gon' win
who in? you out? you in?
no doubt, we men
ain't no ridin the fence
It's called self-defense
It makes sense
when they tell us we gotta shackles on our brains (say what?)
I'll be damned if I sit here and let them put us back in chains
 
NYTimes Waited Full Week to Correct Military Rape Story - One Tale a Total Fabrication
Posted by Warner Todd Huston on March 27, 2007 - 04:11.

On March 18th, the New York Times published a piece titled "The Women's War". It was a feature of great length (18 pages on the Internet) centered around the plight of several female Veterans of the war in Iraq. It detailed the mistreatment they suffered by the US Military, sexual harassment they received at the hands of army officers, and their PTSDs (post traumatic distress disorders). A shocking expose is what the Times was going for, it is sure. These women certainly deserved better treatment and the story should be well publicized, of course. It might have had more impact but for the fact that the Times knew that one of the subjects featured in the article wasn't even in Iraq and that her story was a complete lie.

Worse yet, the Times published the story knowing full well that one of their subjects had lied to them. Finally, a whole week after their initial story was published on the 18th, on March 25th, the Times published a mae culpa, correcting the story.

The cover article in The Times Magazine on March 18 reported on women who served in Iraq, the sexual abuse that some of them endured and the struggle for all of them to reclaim their prewar lives. One of the servicewomen, Amorita Randall, a former naval construction worker, told The Times that she was in combat in Iraq in 2004 and that in one incident an explosive device blew up a Humvee she was riding in, killing the driver and leaving her with a brain injury. She also said she was raped twice while she was in the Navy.

...Based on the information that came to light after the article was printed, it is now clear that Ms. Randall did not serve in Iraq

According to Fox New's Rick Leventhal the Times knew far in advance that one of their highlighted subjects was a fraud.

The newspaper knew about the mistakes on March 12, six days before the magazine was distributed, and 13 days before it published the correction.The magazine was printed on March 9 — three days before the lies were discovered — but there was still plenty of time to reprint it. The cost might've been huge, but wouldn't it be worth it for a paper whose masthead proclaims "All the News That's Fit to Print?"

For the Times' part, they claimed there wasn't enough time to correct the story in advance of the publication date.

On March 6, three days before the article went to press, a Times researcher contacted the Navy to confirm Ms. Randall’s account. There was preliminary back and forth but no detailed reply until hours before the deadline.

Leventhal claims the Times knew about it 6 days before press and the Times admits to three. Regardless if it was six or three, there was more than enough time for the Times to print a correction between March 18th and March 25th.

Why did the Times wait an entire week to print this correction when even by their own admission they knew the truth before they printed the original story?

We know what the Times knew and when they knew it (to steal the oft repeated Democrat Party phrase used against GOP administrations), but what we don't know is why it took them so long to admit to it all?

Was there no time at all that they could have published this correction over the course of a whole week? Did they want to wait far enough into the future until they thought no one would notice?

What ever the reason, it is interesting how long they waited in light of how they treat others who "know" things but wait too long in the Time's estimation to admit it all, isn't it?

Imagine if this were Bush waiting to get all the facts straight before coming to the fore with all he knew? Wait, we don't have to imagine it. All we have to do is look to see how the Times is treating the faux scandal of the Gonzales Attorneys General firings.

As John Gibson said of the story:

Does it cost a lot to reprint an entire four-color glossy paper Sunday magazine? Yes. Does it cost a lot in reputation for the newspaper of record to knowingly publish false information and figure it can be fixed with a schedule correction a week later? Yes and yes.

The Times has a political point of view these days it has no problem pushing in its news and editorial pages. OK, it gives up some points in objectivity when it does that, but the publisher has a right to do so. But when The Times knowingly publishes phony information because it costs too much to reprint and thinks a correction a week later will fix things, that suggests something different than just editorial point of view. It suggests a willingness to lie for money. If you'll lie for money, doesn't it follow you would find it much easier to lie for the much higher calling of ideology?

The Times has some explaining to do.

I couldn't agree more.

I actually read that story a few Sundays ago myself. The very first thought I had was a curiosity if the Times fact checked any of the aggrieved women they highlighted. I guess I got my answer!

There is one more thing that should be considered in this mess the Times has made. There were some real stories of women vets that will now be overshadowed by the Times' sloppy work. All the focus will be on the fraudulent claims and the real problems faced by the other women could easily fade into the background.

And now I have to say one more thing. Liberals had for years been trying to break down the roadblocks to women being able to serve in the military and in field positions. Now they have that in many ways, if not full combat. And now we have women getting PTSD because of their harrowing service to the country.

Am I the only one to think that this should not surprise anyone? Military men having been coming home from wars with PTSD since the first clashes of humans. Why are we all upset and surprised that, now that we are putting women in a position to see the same sorts of service, women are finding themselves faced with troubled lives afterward?

I am not saying, of course, that we should just brush off these women's troubles, but can we really justify sensational stories about their troubles as if it is somehow shocking? Shouldn't we just expect the problem and make moves to face it and help these women?

http://newsbusters.org/node/11653
 
I for one am glad the surge is working. That will mean that we can be out of Iraq by March 31, 2008.

so now telling our enemies will bring a speedy end to the war? Why didn't Ike tell Hitler when the US would pull out of Europe?
 
so now telling our enemies will bring a speedy end to the war? Why didn't Ike tell Hitler when the US would pull out of Europe?



if the surge is working, we should have it all wrapped up long before the deadline.

That IS what Petraeus said, isn't it?
 
if the surge is working, we should have it all wrapped up long before the deadline.

That IS what Petraeus said, isn't it?

The surge is working an dthat is what libs are scared about. For years, they have said we are losing the war - if the US wins they will look worse then they already do
 
The surge is working an dthat is what libs are scared about. For years, they have said we are losing the war - if the US wins they will look worse then they already do

that's an incorrect statement. I would LOVE for the surge to work...I would LOVE for us to "win" this war. I think America would look good if we won and that is good for everyone who calls themselves an American.


But answer my question: Petraeus did say that the surge should be done by this summer, right?
 

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