No Easy Answers

[toomuchtime_]

The poll was conducted by the Harry S.Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research.

The majority of both Israelis (64%) and Palestinians (68%) are skeptical that a Palestinian state will be established alongside Israel in the next five years, the survey found. Almost half of Israeli respondents answered that a two-state solution is doomed to fail, while 44% think it is still relevant. The solution of one state for two peoples did not fare any better, with almost two-thirds of both sides opposing the idea.

On both sides the majority supports their respective government's stance on Palestinian-Israeli negotiations. Most of the Israelis polled (68%) rejected the Palestinian pre-conditions that Israel commit to return to the pre-1967 lines with land swaps and a halt of settlement construction. Meanwhile, 58% of Palestinians polled opposed returning to the negotiation table without those conditions.

'69% of Israelis favor US-Israeli strike... JPost - National News

Does this mean that what they've got is as good as it gets?

 

[JStone]

The crux of the matter is arabs and muslimes simply don't have enough land [99.9%] without taking Israel [0.1%].

 

[Artevelde]

The poll was conducted by the Harry S.Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research.

The majority of both Israelis (64%) and Palestinians (68%) are skeptical that a Palestinian state will be established alongside Israel in the next five years, the survey found. Almost half of Israeli respondents answered that a two-state solution is doomed to fail, while 44% think it is still relevant. The solution of one state for two peoples did not fare any better, with almost two-thirds of both sides opposing the idea.

On both sides the majority supports their respective government's stance on Palestinian-Israeli negotiations. Most of the Israelis polled (68%) rejected the Palestinian pre-conditions that Israel commit to return to the pre-1967 lines with land swaps and a halt of settlement construction. Meanwhile, 58% of Palestinians polled opposed returning to the negotiation table without those conditions.

'69% of Israelis favor US-Israeli strike... JPost - National News

Does this mean that what they've got is as good as it gets?

I think the problem is that while it seems natural to go for a two state solution, it is very difficult to imagine a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank being really viable and stable. I have believed for some time that the best solution would be for a Palestinian state to be created on the West Bank in confederation with Jordan (rather than as a seperate and fully independent state) so that Jordan can provide for a stable political structure and the necessary security. In such a scenario Gaza could similarly be attached to Egypt or also form part of the confederation with Jordan.
But I'm afraid the Jordanians would not at all be interested in getting themselves burdened this way.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The poll was conducted by the Harry S.Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research.

The majority of both Israelis (64%) and Palestinians (68%) are skeptical that a Palestinian state will be established alongside Israel in the next five years, the survey found. Almost half of Israeli respondents answered that a two-state solution is doomed to fail, while 44% think it is still relevant. The solution of one state for two peoples did not fare any better, with almost two-thirds of both sides opposing the idea.

On both sides the majority supports their respective government's stance on Palestinian-Israeli negotiations. Most of the Israelis polled (68%) rejected the Palestinian pre-conditions that Israel commit to return to the pre-1967 lines with land swaps and a halt of settlement construction. Meanwhile, 58% of Palestinians polled opposed returning to the negotiation table without those conditions.

'69% of Israelis favor US-Israeli strike... JPost - National News

Does this mean that what they've got is as good as it gets?

I think the problem is that while it seems natural to go for a two state solution, it is very difficult to imagine a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank being really viable and stable. I have believed for some time that the best solution would be for a Palestinian state to be created on the West Bank in confederation with Jordan (rather than as a seperate and fully independent state) so that Jordan can provide for a stable political structure and the necessary security. In such a scenario Gaza could similarly be attached to Egypt or also form part of the confederation with Jordan.
But I'm afraid the Jordanians would not at all be interested in getting themselves burdened this way.

The two state solution was put on the table 75 years ago and we are farther away from it now than we were then. Can we say that it is dead?

The Jordanian solution is an Israeli plan to keep all those potential Arab voters off its rolls. Neither Jordan nor the Palestinians like that idea.

 

[JStone]

Quran 60:4

We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone"

Quran 9:29

Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but allah, we will chase you everywhere We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no better blood than the blood of the Jews. We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children's thirst with your blood, we will not rest until you leave the Muslim countries.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rleFpY402vM]Palestinian - Terrorism - YouTube[/ame]

 

[docmauser1]

The two state solution was put on the table 75 years ago and we are farther away from it now than we were then.

Indeed, arabs, being perennial losers, wanted to rob jews 75 years ago as they want to rob jews now.

The Jordanian solution is an Israeli plan to keep all those potential Arab voters off its rolls.

Indeed, palistanians have always wanted one country too many.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The poll was conducted by the Harry S.Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research.

The majority of both Israelis (64%) and Palestinians (68%) are skeptical that a Palestinian state will be established alongside Israel in the next five years, the survey found. Almost half of Israeli respondents answered that a two-state solution is doomed to fail, while 44% think it is still relevant. The solution of one state for two peoples did not fare any better, with almost two-thirds of both sides opposing the idea.

On both sides the majority supports their respective government's stance on Palestinian-Israeli negotiations. Most of the Israelis polled (68%) rejected the Palestinian pre-conditions that Israel commit to return to the pre-1967 lines with land swaps and a halt of settlement construction. Meanwhile, 58% of Palestinians polled opposed returning to the negotiation table without those conditions.

'69% of Israelis favor US-Israeli strike... JPost - National News

Does this mean that what they've got is as good as it gets?

I think the problem is that while it seems natural to go for a two state solution, it is very difficult to imagine a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank being really viable and stable. I have believed for some time that the best solution would be for a Palestinian state to be created on the West Bank in confederation with Jordan (rather than as a seperate and fully independent state) so that Jordan can provide for a stable political structure and the necessary security. In such a scenario Gaza could similarly be attached to Egypt or also form part of the confederation with Jordan.
But I'm afraid the Jordanians would not at all be interested in getting themselves burdened this way.

Twenty years ago, I was supported the idea of a two state solution, but I agree with you that for a variety of reasons it is not feasible. According to the poll about 2/3 of both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs reject a one state solution, so what's left? People often say the present situation is not sustainable, but if we've eliminated all the alternatives, as this poll suggests we have, it has to be.

 

[JStone]

'69% of Israelis favor US-Israeli strike... JPost - National News

Does this mean that what they've got is as good as it gets?

I think the problem is that while it seems natural to go for a two state solution, it is very difficult to imagine a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank being really viable and stable. I have believed for some time that the best solution would be for a Palestinian state to be created on the West Bank in confederation with Jordan (rather than as a seperate and fully independent state) so that Jordan can provide for a stable political structure and the necessary security. In such a scenario Gaza could similarly be attached to Egypt or also form part of the confederation with Jordan.
But I'm afraid the Jordanians would not at all be interested in getting themselves burdened this way.

Twenty years ago, I was supported the idea of a two state solution, but I agree with you that for a variety of reasons it is not feasible. According to the poll about 2/3 of both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs reject a one state solution, so what's left? People often say the present situation is not sustainable, but if we've eliminated all the alternatives, as this poll suggests we have, it has to be.

There's already a palesteenian state: Jordan.

Jordan represented 80% of "palestine" [eastern palestine] during the British Mandate prior to the Brits giving it to the hashemite trash from arabia.

Today, Jordan is 75% palesteenian, including the Queen.

Free Jordanian-Occupied Palestine!!!

 

[toomuchtime_]

I think the problem is that while it seems natural to go for a two state solution, it is very difficult to imagine a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank being really viable and stable. I have believed for some time that the best solution would be for a Palestinian state to be created on the West Bank in confederation with Jordan (rather than as a seperate and fully independent state) so that Jordan can provide for a stable political structure and the necessary security. In such a scenario Gaza could similarly be attached to Egypt or also form part of the confederation with Jordan.
But I'm afraid the Jordanians would not at all be interested in getting themselves burdened this way.

Twenty years ago, I was supported the idea of a two state solution, but I agree with you that for a variety of reasons it is not feasible. According to the poll about 2/3 of both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs reject a one state solution, so what's left? People often say the present situation is not sustainable, but if we've eliminated all the alternatives, as this poll suggests we have, it has to be.

There's already a palesteenian state: Jordan.

Jordan represented 80% of "palestine" [eastern palestine] during the British Mandate prior to the Brits giving it to the hashemite trash from arabia.

Today, Jordan is 75% palesteenian, including the Queen.

Free Jordanian-Occupied Palestine!!!

In 1967, after liberating Jerusalem, Dayan ordered the IDF to stop, assuming that Jordan would retain control of the rest of the West Bank, but when he learned that the Jordanian army had retreated all the way to the other side of the river, he ordered the IDF to move to the west bank of the river. Within a week after the war, Israel offered to return all the land it had captured, including all of the West Bank minus Jerusalem, in return for peace. The offer, of course, was rejected by the Arabs when they met in Khartoum, but had Jordan and Egypt accepted that offer, there would have been no further discussion of a Palestinian Arab state or an Israeli occupation.

 

[JStone]

Twenty years ago, I was supported the idea of a two state solution, but I agree with you that for a variety of reasons it is not feasible. According to the poll about 2/3 of both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs reject a one state solution, so what's left? People often say the present situation is not sustainable, but if we've eliminated all the alternatives, as this poll suggests we have, it has to be.

There's already a palesteenian state: Jordan.

Jordan represented 80% of "palestine" [eastern palestine] during the British Mandate prior to the Brits giving it to the hashemite trash from arabia.

Today, Jordan is 75% palesteenian, including the Queen.

Free Jordanian-Occupied Palestine!!!

In 1967, after liberating Jerusalem, Dayan ordered the IDF to stop, assuming that Jordan would retain control of the rest of the West Bank, but when he learned that the Jordanian army had retreated all the way to the other side of the river, he ordered the IDF to move to the west bank of the river. Within a week after the war, Israel offered to return all the land it had captured, including all of the West Bank minus Jerusalem, in return for peace. The offer, of course, was rejected by the Arabs when they met in Khartoum, but had Jordan and Egypt accepted that offer, there would have been no further discussion of a Palestinian Arab state or an Israeli occupation.

In the aftermath of the '67 War, Israel offered forfeiture of seized lands merely in exchange for a peace pact with the rabs. The Arab League flatly rejected Israel's peace offer with the famous Khartoum Resolution Three Nos: No peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel and no right of Israel to exist.

It was then that Israel decided to proceed with construction of communities in Judea and Samaria.

Rabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity

 

[Hossfly]

'69% of Israelis favor US-Israeli strike... JPost - National News

Does this mean that what they've got is as good as it gets?

I think the problem is that while it seems natural to go for a two state solution, it is very difficult to imagine a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank being really viable and stable. I have believed for some time that the best solution would be for a Palestinian state to be created on the West Bank in confederation with Jordan (rather than as a seperate and fully independent state) so that Jordan can provide for a stable political structure and the necessary security. In such a scenario Gaza could similarly be attached to Egypt or also form part of the confederation with Jordan.
But I'm afraid the Jordanians would not at all be interested in getting themselves burdened this way.

The two state solution was put on the table 75 years ago and we are farther away from it now than we were then. Can we say that it is dead?

The Jordanian solution is an Israeli plan to keep all those potential Arab voters off its rolls. Neither Jordan nor the Palestinians like that idea.

Civilize the Palisimians and better things will happen for them.

 

[Artevelde]

'69% of Israelis favor US-Israeli strike... JPost - National News

Does this mean that what they've got is as good as it gets?

I think the problem is that while it seems natural to go for a two state solution, it is very difficult to imagine a Palestinian state in Gaza and the West Bank being really viable and stable. I have believed for some time that the best solution would be for a Palestinian state to be created on the West Bank in confederation with Jordan (rather than as a seperate and fully independent state) so that Jordan can provide for a stable political structure and the necessary security. In such a scenario Gaza could similarly be attached to Egypt or also form part of the confederation with Jordan.
But I'm afraid the Jordanians would not at all be interested in getting themselves burdened this way.

Twenty years ago, I was supported the idea of a two state solution, but I agree with you that for a variety of reasons it is not feasible. According to the poll about 2/3 of both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs reject a one state solution, so what's left? People often say the present situation is not sustainable, but if we've eliminated all the alternatives, as this poll suggests we have, it has to be.

You are quite right of course. Basically there are in theory 6 possible outcomes for the current stalemate:

1. Israel and the PA reach a peace deal whereby a sovereign Palestinian state is created next to Israel, presumably on the West Bank and in Gaza and whereby some sort of territorial compromise is reached in and around Jerusalem and along the 1967-line (with mutual borderswaps). This sounds good, but it is very doubtful such a Palestinian state can ever be really viable. The risk of further radicalization and takeover by more extreme groups (like in Gaza) becomes a strong possibility with an endless cycle of conflict as a result.

2. The Palestinians choose the solution I outlined earlier, i.e. a Palestinian state in confederation with Jordan (and perhaps also with Egypt for Gaza). this obviously also would involve territorial compromises with Israel, mutual security guarantees, etc. This sounds like the optimum solution in the given circumstances, but Jordan is unlikely to go for this and who can blame them? I believe Jordan is strong enough to stabilize a Palestinian state in a confederation, but the risk of course would be that Jordan would get destabilized itself.

3. Currently the one-state-solution seems to be in vogue, whereby Israel and Palestine merge into one state (albeit perhaps a federal one). This, in effect, means the end of Israel as a sovereign and independent Jewish state and therefore will remain unacceptable to the Israeli's.

4. Of course there always the theoretical possibility that somehow the Arab/muslim states miraculously manage to defeat and destroy Israel. Doesn't look very likely in the near future. And besides, if and when Israel is at the point of destruction, I'm pretty convinced they will take the whole neighborhood with them. Might be the dream of the Apocalypse Now gang, but hardly a good outcome.

5. Theoretically it is of course also possible for Israel to declare the war over unilaterally, annex whatever territory in the West Bank it wants to keep and withdraw from the rest. Sounds good at first sight from an Israeli perspective, but it risks precipitating a major crisis and in the long run it leaves the Israeli's every bit as much at war as today.

6. Finally, there remains, as you said, simply the status quo. Not a nice prospect. But it's what we are left with if all other options fail.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, the status quo is unsustainable. It seem that the we are stuck in the status quo because the peace process that was designed to fail has done so repeatedly for the last 20 years.

However, even though the governments involved have done nothing in the last 20 years but yak does not mean that the process is stagnant. Things are changing.

Gaza is the best hope right now. Gaza is the biggest threat to the status quo. Israel hoped that if it sealed Gaza and threw away the key that it would be unnoticed by the world community. This isolation of Gaza is falling apart. The ISM, Free Gaza, the Flotilla, Viva Palestina, and others have placed Gaza on the world stage. The ouster of Mubarak, our man in Egypt, is slowly bringing things around in that arena.

Many people, including government officials, from around the world are now visiting Gaza and being warmly received by the elected government there. Prime Minister Ismail Heneya has visited several countries on diplomatic missions. PLC member have also gone out on diplomatic missions.

There are changes in the West Bank also. There is a growing non violent resistance movement in the West Bank. There are now several protests every week. These protests are being violently put down by Israel’s military. Israel is shooting itself in the foot with these violent attacks on unarmed civilians.

There is another attack on the status quo in the West Bank. From Oslo through the “roadmap” the PA was required to have security forces that coordinated with Israel. These forces did nothing for the security of the Palestinians. They were there to protect Israel. To do this they spied on people without court issued warrants, they arrested people without warrants, they held people indefinitely without charge or trial, they tortured people and several were tortured to death. All this is, of course, in violation of Palestinian’s constitutional rights. There are now protests against this illegal detention. These protests are getting larger and closer together. They are a direct challenge to the status quo.

So there is hope.

 

[JStone]

John F. Kennedy, "Salute To Israel"

Both Israel and the United States acknowledge the supremacy of the moral law – both believe in personal as well as national liberty – and, perhaps most important, both will fight to the end to maintain that liberty

Yes; Israel, we salute you. We honor your progress and your determination and your spirit. But in the midst of our rejoicing we do not forget your peril. We know that no other nation in this world lives out its days in an atmosphere of such constant tension and fear. We know that no other nation in this world is surrounded on every side by such violent hate and prejudice

Today we celebrate her 8th birthday – but I say without hesitation that she will live to see an 80th birthday – and an eight hundredth. For peace is all Israel asks, no more – a peace that will “beat swords into plowshares and spears into pruning-hooks”; a peace that will enable the desert to “rejoice and blossom as the rose,” “when the wicked cease from troubling and the weary be at rest.” Then, and only then, will the world have witnessed the complete fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy “Tzee-Yon B’Meeshpat Teepadeh” – “Zion shall be redeemed through justice.” And all of us here, and there, and everywhere will then be able to say to each other with faith and with confidence, in our coming and in our going: “Shalom” – peace! Peace be with you, now and forever.
Remarks by Senator John F. Kennedy at Yankee Stadium on April 29, 1956 | Finding Camelot

Barack Obama...

The slaughter of innocent Israelis is not resistance -- it's injustice.

Let's be honest: Israel is surrounded by neighbors that have waged repeated wars against it. Israel's citizens have been killed by rockets fired at their houses and suicide bombs on their buses. Israel's children come of age knowing that throughout the region, other children are taught to hate them. Israel, a small country of less than eight million people, looks out at a world where leaders of much larger nations threaten to wipe it off of the map. These facts cannot be denied.
Remarks by President Obama in Address to the United Nations General Assembly | The White House