NLRB: College athletes can unionize

[WinterBorn]

Yes, they could.

Of course, they'd lose a lot of money in revenues produced by college sports, along with contributions from alumni boosters.

It strikes me that there is a lot of money being generated here, but the people performing most of the actual labor- the student athletes - aren't getting all that much out of it. They don't get paid, and in some cases, the academic benefit they are getting is questionable.

The academic benefit is questionable?? How is a full scholarship questionable?

The ruling came down at Northwestern University. The cost of attending NU for 1 year is $59,950. So these 18 & 19 years old kids are getting quite a bit for their effort. And it will pay off hugely in their future.

Just because you overcharge someone for a service, doesn't make the service worth the money.

Hey, did you hear about this one?

The UNC fake class scandal: Athlete got an A- for a one-paragraph paper.

The University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill has already been embroiled in a scandal for allowing its athletes to enroll in fake courses for easy credit. Now, the whole controversy has a rather potent visual symbol to go along with it: a 146-word, ungrammatical essay on Rosa Parks that earned an A- for a real intro class.*

Mary Willingham, who spent a decade tutoring and advising UNC’s jocks before turning into a whistleblower, unveiled the paper during an interview with ESPN. As the segment explains, academically troubled UNC athletes were encouraged to sign up for so-called “paper classes”—which were essentially no-work independent studies involving a single paper that allowed functionally illiterate football players to prop up their GPAs, thus satisfying the NCAA’s eligibility requirements. While viewers were not treated to any of the "work" produced in those courses, Willingham did show this paper she later clarified was written for an actual intro class, in which the athlete finished with an A-:

Oh, UNC's Annual Tuition? $30,122.00.

Northwestern fills its classes every year. It is not overcharging if there are plenty of people who think the value is worth the cost. A degree from NU is worth a far more in your career.

Did you hear about Barrett Jones? He played every position on the offensive line, was a key player on 3 BCS Championships. And...."Off the field, he has earned a degree in accounting, graduating summa cum laude in August 2011 with a 4.0 grade point average. He graduated in December 2012 with his masters again maintaining a 4.0 GPA." from Barrett Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or how about Greg McElroy? He was the starting QB on the team that won an SEC Championship and the BCS Championship. His final season he led his team to 14-0 record. "McElroy graduated from Alabama in three years with a degree in business marketing. As an undergraduate he had a 3.85 GPA, and applied for, but did not win, a Rhodes Scholarship in 2010. In December 2010 he obtained a Master of Science degree in sports management, completing it with a 4.0 GPA."
from Greg McElroy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The incident you sited from NC is corruption. That is a different topic. The student-athletes are responsible for their own course selection and academic progress. As you can see, there are athletes that make the most of their academic opportunities.

 

[Unkotare]

Just because you overcharge someone for a service, doesn't make the service worth the money. ...

You ought to know all about that, if your 'story' about being paid for your so-called writing is in any degree true.

 

[boilermaker55]

Do you know the percentage of college athletes in every sport that get contracts in the professional arena?

Then let the NFL and NBA pay for them!

 

[Jarlaxle]

That is just ignorant and idiotic.

I did NOT post that. I have never posted that. Do not attribute to me things I have not posted!

Post #108:

Looks like the left is trying to destroy college sports. Sad.

College sports need to be destroyed. They are a de facto minor league for the NFL and NBA and need to be treated as such.

You're right...I was in a hurry and posted before I finished typing my post. Sorry about that.

Having said that: as currently administered, college sports need to be destroyed.

 

[Unkotare]

I did NOT post that. I have never posted that. Do not attribute to me things I have not posted!

Post #108:

College sports need to be destroyed. They are a de facto minor league for the NFL and NBA and need to be treated as such.

You're right...I was in a hurry and posted before I finished typing my post. Sorry about that.

Having said that: as currently administered, college sports need to be destroyed.

No worries. That having been said, your comment is still ridiculous. You would "destroy" college sports for all the thousands of athletes out there just because of the tiniest minority among them?

 

[Jarlaxle]

No, reread what I posted: as currently administered, college sports need to be destroyed. The current system needs to go, the whole thing needs an overhaul.

 

[Unkotare]

No, reread what I posted: as currently administered, college sports need to be destroyed. The current system needs to go, the whole thing needs an overhaul.

I read your post. And during this "overhaul," what happens to all these hard working student athletes?

 

[WinterBorn]

No, reread what I posted: as currently administered, college sports need to be destroyed. The current system needs to go, the whole thing needs an overhaul.

Removing the NCAA and creating another ruling body would suffice.

 

[JoeB131]

Just because you overcharge someone for a service, doesn't make the service worth the money. ...

You ought to know all about that, if your 'story' about being paid for your so-called writing is in any degree true.

But unlike you, I do get paid.

Seriously, have you gotten laid yet, guy?

 

[JoeB131]

[



The incident you sited from NC is corruption. That is a different topic. The student-athletes are responsible for their own course selection and academic progress. As you can see, there are athletes that make the most of their academic opportunities.

WOw, guy, i mean, I tried to give a fuck about what you posted, but just couldn't do it.

Besides the fact that college tuitions are OBSCENELY expensive, the fact is, these kids are employees. They are out there making money for the university. The fact that they get a free ride and in some cases, what they are given is absolutely worthless is besides the point.

They are employees. They should be able to unionize and collectively bargain their working conditions. Period.

 

[WinterBorn]

[



The incident you sited from NC is corruption. That is a different topic. The student-athletes are responsible for their own course selection and academic progress. As you can see, there are athletes that make the most of their academic opportunities.

WOw, guy, i mean, I tried to give a fuck about what you posted, but just couldn't do it.

Besides the fact that college tuitions are OBSCENELY expensive, the fact is, these kids are employees. They are out there making money for the university. The fact that they get a free ride and in some cases, what they are given is absolutely worthless is besides the point.

They are employees. They should be able to unionize and collectively bargain their working conditions. Period.

They are prohibited from working more than 20 hrs a week (8 in the off season), and they get a free college education.

Now you claim that a college education is worthless. Based on what? Oh yeah, your opinion.

And it is over-priced. Based on what? Oh yeah, your opinion again.

What is it worth? 10 benefits to a college education - MSN Living

"College graduates earn almost twice as much as high-school grads over the course of their careers, according to a 2010 report by the U.S. Census Bureau. High school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million during their working life, compared to $2.1 million for those with a bachelor's degree and $2.5 million for people with a master's degree"

Not only is it more money, it is better job opportunities, more connections, expanded horizons and you learn to think, analyze and reason better.

As for you giving a shit about what I posted, since it actually showed that the fault of poor academic performance is the student's, I guess you would choose to ignore it. Since it defeats your argument completely.

 

[WinterBorn]

[



The incident you sited from NC is corruption. That is a different topic. The student-athletes are responsible for their own course selection and academic progress. As you can see, there are athletes that make the most of their academic opportunities.

WOw, guy, i mean, I tried to give a fuck about what you posted, but just couldn't do it.

Besides the fact that college tuitions are OBSCENELY expensive, the fact is, these kids are employees. They are out there making money for the university. The fact that they get a free ride and in some cases, what they are given is absolutely worthless is besides the point.

They are employees. They should be able to unionize and collectively bargain their working conditions. Period.

Oh, and just because their work creates profit for the school does not necessarily mean they are employees.

 

[JoeB131]

[



The incident you sited from NC is corruption. That is a different topic. The student-athletes are responsible for their own course selection and academic progress. As you can see, there are athletes that make the most of their academic opportunities.

WOw, guy, i mean, I tried to give a fuck about what you posted, but just couldn't do it.

Besides the fact that college tuitions are OBSCENELY expensive, the fact is, these kids are employees. They are out there making money for the university. The fact that they get a free ride and in some cases, what they are given is absolutely worthless is besides the point.

They are employees. They should be able to unionize and collectively bargain their working conditions. Period.

They are prohibited from working more than 20 hrs a week (8 in the off season), and they get a free college education.

Now you claim that a college education is worthless. Based on what? Oh yeah, your opinion.

And it is over-priced. Based on what? Oh yeah, your opinion again.

What is it worth? 10 benefits to a college education - MSN Living


As for you giving a shit about what I posted, since it actually showed that the fault of poor academic performance is the student's, I guess you would choose to ignore it. Since it defeats your argument completely.

Guy, a college degree becomes worthless when everyone has one and the standards are lowered to such a degree that the kid who wrote the 146 word essay got an A-.

A lot of folks who go to college shouldn't. A lot of folks come out with a degree and still really don't know anything.

And frankly, a lot of jobs are demanding college degrees and eliminating older workers from that bygone era where you could get a good job without one, but not anymore.
I know people about my age, who can't get a job in my profession because despite decades of experience, they just aren't offering you a job without a college degree.

But back to the point, the lie of the NCAA is that these are "student-athletes". I'm sure some are. I'm also sure a lot of folks working 9-5 are "Student-workers", but they still should have the same rights to organize other employees do.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Oh, and just because their work creates profit for the school does not necessarily mean they are employees.

I'm not sure what else you would call it. They create visibility for the schools. They earn the schools broadcast rights and merchandising and such. Of course, they are employees.

 

[Unkotare]

Just because you overcharge someone for a service, doesn't make the service worth the money. ...

You ought to know all about that, if your 'story' about being paid for your so-called writing is in any degree true.

But unlike you, I do get paid.

Oh yeah, just like you used to be a Republican....

Everyone knows the B is for Bullshit.

 

[WinterBorn]

[

Oh, and just because their work creates profit for the school does not necessarily mean they are employees.

I'm not sure what else you would call it. They create visibility for the schools. They earn the schools broadcast rights and merchandising and such. Of course, they are employees.

They are students. The fact that they get a scholarship and/or play a sport does not change that.

The employees are the staff of the college.

My company hires subcontractors. They earn money for the company, but they are not employees.

 

[WinterBorn]

WOw, guy, i mean, I tried to give a fuck about what you posted, but just couldn't do it.

Besides the fact that college tuitions are OBSCENELY expensive, the fact is, these kids are employees. They are out there making money for the university. The fact that they get a free ride and in some cases, what they are given is absolutely worthless is besides the point.

They are employees. They should be able to unionize and collectively bargain their working conditions. Period.

They are prohibited from working more than 20 hrs a week (8 in the off season), and they get a free college education.

Now you claim that a college education is worthless. Based on what? Oh yeah, your opinion.

And it is over-priced. Based on what? Oh yeah, your opinion again.

What is it worth? 10 benefits to a college education - MSN Living


As for you giving a shit about what I posted, since it actually showed that the fault of poor academic performance is the student's, I guess you would choose to ignore it. Since it defeats your argument completely.

Guy, a college degree becomes worthless when everyone has one and the standards are lowered to such a degree that the kid who wrote the 146 word essay got an A-.

A lot of folks who go to college shouldn't. A lot of folks come out with a degree and still really don't know anything.

And frankly, a lot of jobs are demanding college degrees and eliminating older workers from that bygone era where you could get a good job without one, but not anymore.
I know people about my age, who can't get a job in my profession because despite decades of experience, they just aren't offering you a job without a college degree.

But back to the point, the lie of the NCAA is that these are "student-athletes". I'm sure some are. I'm also sure a lot of folks working 9-5 are "Student-workers", but they still should have the same rights to organize other employees do.

Sure it becomes worthless when everyone has one. But everyone doesn't have one, so that argument is worthless.

The standards are the same. The fact that you cited examples of cheating does not change that. The student in question had his credit for that course revoked. I have no problem with academic requirements being the same for everyone.

Your said: "And frankly, a lot of jobs are demanding college degrees and eliminating older workers from that bygone era where you could get a good job without one, but not anymore. I know people about my age, who can't get a job in my profession because despite decades of experience, they just aren't offering you a job without a college degree."

Your statement only proves my point. The college degree is very valuable. It is not always about the specific training received, but about other attributes of college graduates.

You can keep claiming that it is worthless, but the facts show different.

 

[WinterBorn]

WOw, guy, i mean, I tried to give a fuck about what you posted, but just couldn't do it.

Besides the fact that college tuitions are OBSCENELY expensive, the fact is, these kids are employees. They are out there making money for the university. The fact that they get a free ride and in some cases, what they are given is absolutely worthless is besides the point.

They are employees. They should be able to unionize and collectively bargain their working conditions. Period.

They are prohibited from working more than 20 hrs a week (8 in the off season), and they get a free college education.

Now you claim that a college education is worthless. Based on what? Oh yeah, your opinion.

And it is over-priced. Based on what? Oh yeah, your opinion again.

What is it worth? 10 benefits to a college education - MSN Living


As for you giving a shit about what I posted, since it actually showed that the fault of poor academic performance is the student's, I guess you would choose to ignore it. Since it defeats your argument completely.

Guy, a college degree becomes worthless when everyone has one and the standards are lowered to such a degree that the kid who wrote the 146 word essay got an A-.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/24/education/census-finds-bachelors-degrees-at-record-level.html?_r=0

According to that article, 30% of the population has a college degree. Are you expecting the other 70% to graduate soon?

 

[Unkotare]

the lie of the NCAA is that these are "student-athletes". I'm sure some are.

The VAST majority are, you stupid, ignorant shit.

 

[WinterBorn]

So far, JoeB's argument has centered around the following points:

College degrees are worthless because I say so.
College tuition is astronomically too high, because I say it is.
Some kids and coaches have cheated, so all athlete's diplomas are worthless.
Someone is making a ton of money, so someone else deserves a piece of it.

lol

Is this the best level of debate we have on the topic?