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Consider the following blatant contradictions:
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." -- Exodus 20:8
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." -- Romans 14:5
"... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes 1:4
"... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2Peter 3:10
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30
"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
"... with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26
"...The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19
"...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25
"...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39
"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised." -- Genesis 17:10
"...if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." -- Galatians 5:2
"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20
"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." -- James 1:13
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..." -- Genesis 22:1
"Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26
"...he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9
"...the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth...." -- John 5:28-29
Here are a couple of broken promises:
Verily I [Jesus] say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things [the end of the world] be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32)
Uh...I think that practically everyone within Jesus' generation has died.
"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)
Oh how I used to believe as an impressionable young child and oh how I wish the above passage were true. Ha.
That is it! the idea that we can make those sins and then pray to make it better, it is ruining us. Christ didn't die so we could abuse our privelige to dump our burden on him.
Verily I [Jesus] say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things [the end of the world] be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32)
Uh...I think that practically everyone within Jesus' generation has died.
"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)
Oh how I used to believe as an impressionable young child and oh how I wish the above passage were true. Ha.
mattskramer said:States derive their power - in the forms of representation in Congress, electoral votes, etc., according to their respective populations. Higher population=more representation=more power. Slave states would have been only too glad to count black slaves on a 1:1 ratio with the rest of their population. Using a segment of their head count which enjoyed no rights, no recourse, and no representation, they would have strengthened themselves, and, by logical extension, the institution of slavery itself. The abolitionists refused to allow this. Due to the lateness of the hour, and the rapidly nearing British, the three-fifths compromise was struck. The abolitionists knew that, once the question of U.S. independence was settled (one way or the other), the slavery issue would come to a head very soon after. It did, in fewer than a hundred years - the historical equivalent of the blink of an eye.
Uh. Explain this to me like I'm a 12-year-old. Is it that if slaves would have been allowed a 1:1 ratio with the rest of the population, they would have voted for representatives that would have them continue to live as slaves? This just does not make sense. Ones who have more voting power, by definition would have more rights, more recourse, and more representation.
mattskramer said:"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." -- Exodus 20:8
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." -- Romans 14:5
You said that there is a misinterpretation of the Romans passage. In context, Paul is referring to the celebration of feasts and/or festivals, much like many Christians today celebrate Christmas and/or Easter, but some do not. It does not refer to the Sabbath at all.
There is no disclaimer or further clarification by Paul that he speaks of yearly events or weekly events. It looks as though you are reading stuff into there Bible that is not there.
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"... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes 1:4
"... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2Peter 3:10
You said that Solomon is comparing the brevity of man's life to the contrasted longevity of the Earth, the sun, the wind, and the rain, and that, in the light of man's comparatively short life, everything seems meaningless. That may be true. It still does not resolve the issue of the earth's eternal existence. In small stage of melancholy, did Solomon say something that was not technically correct, or is Peter wrong? Either the earth exists forever or it does not.
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"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30
"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
You said that the Genesis quote is from Jacob/Israel, after he wrestles with God, who had taken the form of a man. Okay. I read the entire chapter. God took the form of a man. It is still reasonable to conclude that even as a Man, God would be all powerful. Yet, as weak as Jacob was, we was so able to overpower the God/Man that this God/Man practically asked to be released. Wow. Was this a dream or was God that weak? Your answer leads to more unanswered questions.
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"...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25
"...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39
You said that the first Scripture here is part of the OT law which laid out punishments for various crimes. Jesus is talking about the moral law by which Christians should live; i.e. we should not seek out revenge, because it is God's place to avenge. God change his mind and declare the old law null and void? Is Matthew 5 merely a recommendation or is it as important as the OT law. You said that we should not seek revenge. Yet, are we allowed to seek revenge? Imagine what would become of our justice system if everyone followed this rule or recommendation? After a very short time, no one would have any unsmited cheeks. No, Your comment does not clarify the issue.
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"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised." -- Genesis 17:10
"...if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." -- Galatians 5:2
You said that circumcision was mandated by the OT Law as a sign of the OT covenant. The new covenant, established by Jesus' death and resurrection, does not require circumcision. However, there were many Jews in Galatia who argued that circumcision was necessary to be a Christian. Paul argues throughout the letter that circumcision is not necessary.
Again, it is as though God/Jesus changed his mind. It used to be that people had to be circumcised but that it no longer a requirement. Wow. How many rules and laws do those who wish to be saved no longer have to observe?
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"Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26
You said that nowhere in His ministry does Jesus suggest that we hate people. Yet, even in the New International Version the word hate is used in the Luke 14:26 passage.
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"...he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9
"...the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth...." -- John 5:28-29
You sand that Job states that those who go down into "Sheol" will not come up. Sheol was the Hebrew netherworld, something like hell and/or purgatory. If such were the case, wouldn't the Bible translators have been careful enough to use the correct term? I have heard that those early translators of the Bible were so devout and careful not to make any errors. Were they led by God to translate the original scriptures carefully?
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Verily I [Jesus] say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things [the end of the world] be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32)
Uh...I think that practically everyone within Jesus' generation has died.
You said that the most reasonable interpretation is that the "generation" is the age of Christianity; that Christianity will not die out before Christ's return. See Psalm 24 for a similar rendering of the word "generation." I think that this is a "cop-out" meant to create consistency where there was no consistency. The definition of a "generation" (All of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor) is far from the definition of "Christianity". I grant you that as I glanced at Psalm 24, I didn't find a reference to "generation". Please quote the specific passage.
mattskramer said:Uh. Explain this to me like I'm a 12-year-old. Is it that if slaves would have been allowed a 1:1 ratio with the rest of the population, they would have voted for representatives that would have them continue to live as slaves? This just does not make sense. Ones who have more voting power, by definition would have more rights, more recourse, and more representation.
mattskramer said:Consider the following blatant contradictions:
-----------------------------------
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." -- Exodus 20:8
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." --
Romans 14:5
--------------------------------------
"... the earth abideth for ever." -- Ecclesiastes 1:4
"... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." -- 2Peter 3:10
-------------------------------------------------
"... I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." -- Genesis 32:30
"No man hath seen God at any time..."-- John 1:18
--------------------------------------------
"... with God all things are possible." -- Matthew 19:26
"...The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." -- Judges 1:19
------------------------------
"...thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. " -- Exodus 21:23-25
"...ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." -- Matthew 5:39
-----------------------------------------
"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised." -- Genesis 17:10
"...if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." -- Galatians 5:2
-----------------------------------
"The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father..." -- Ezekiel 18:20
"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation..." -- Exodus 20:5
-------------------------------------------
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." -- James 1:13
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..." -- Genesis 22:1
---------------------------
"Honor thy father and thy mother..."-- Exodus 20:12
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. " -- Luke 14:26
------------------------------------
"...he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. " -- Job 7:9
"...the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth...." -- John 5:28-29
----------------------------------------
Here are a couple of broken promises:
Verily I [Jesus] say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things [the end of the world] be fulfilled." (Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32)
Uh...I think that practically everyone within Jesus' generation has died.
"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)
Oh how I used to believe as an impressionable young child and oh how I wish the above passage were true. Ha.
---------------------------------
Anyway, there are many more examples but these are the clearest and most blatant. Therefore the Bible is invalid. Yet, I'll return to the issue of homosexual marriage. It does not really matter whether or not the Bible is valid. There are atheists and agnostics. People need not believe the Bible. Those that choose to believe the Bible may still choose to sin and face damnation. The bottom line is that in general people should be free to do as they please as long as they don't interfere with the freedom of others. Good-bye for now.