New Testament Contradictions

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by JBeukema, Apr 29, 2009.

  1. JBeukema
    Offline

    JBeukema BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    25,613
    Thanks Received:
    1,703
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    everywhere and nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,705
    if the jews were bad, the xtians are little smarter

    Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.

    Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice and stood speechless. Acts 9:7 Paul’s attendants did not hear the voice and were prostrate. Acts 22:9 & 26:14

    Was she dead or just dying? (Matthew 9:18) He asked for help, saying his daughter was already dead. (Luke 8:41-42) Jairus approached Jesus for help, because his daughter was dying.

    When did the fig tree hear of its doom? (Matthew 21:17-19) Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple. (Mark 11:14-15 & 20) He cursed it before the purging.

    Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.

    Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

    Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5-8) The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.

    Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13

    How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one. Just incase that they are not mutually exclusive then say that in Mark 16:6 it shows that one person was talking but in John 20:13 it shows two people talking. Now that is mutually exclusive.

    Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

    Where did Christ ascend from? From Mount Olives. Acts 1:9-12 From Bethany. Luke 24:50-51

    The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.

    Jesus took Peter, James and John up the mountain six days (Matthew 17:1) or eight days (Luke 9:7) after he told them that they will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

    Matthew 4:18-20 shows that Jesus talked to Peter and Andrew together and they both followed him together but John 1:40-42, shows Andrew followed Jesus first and then he went and informed Peter.

    Are we saved by works as well as faith? Ephesians 2:8-9 says no and James 2:24 says yes.

    James 1:13 says God tempts no man but Genesis 22:1 says that God tempted Abraham.

    According to Mark, chapter 8, verse 12, Jesus says: "In truth, no sign shall be given (by me) to this generation (which refers to the generation of Jews who rejected his claims)." John chapter 12 verse 37 (cf. Acts chapter 2 verse 22) says, in evident contradiction, that Jesus gave "many signs" to this same disbelieving generation of Jews.

    Mark, chapter 6, verse 5 says that Jesus "could do no miracle" on at least one occasion. The word is could (not would) which means it was not possible for Jesus to perform a miracle at that time. But Mark, chapter 10, verse 27 says just the opposite, that "with God all things are possible." Hence, Jesus is eliminated as a god.

    In John, chapter 5, verse 31, Jesus supposedly says: "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." But a little later he reportedly exclaims: "Even if I bear witness of myself, yet my witness is true (John 8:14)." Furthermore, to make matters even more confused and conflicted, this passage was added to the Christian Bible in the sixth century. It is first found in a paper called "Liber Appologeticus" in the fourth century. It is noted that the words are sixth century additions to the original text. The footnote in the Jerusalem Bible, a Catholic translation, says these words are "not in any of the early Greek manuscripts or in the earliest manuscripts of the Vulgate itself." It is interesting that the Catholic church, who originally added this verse would admit now that it a spurious addition to the Greek Testament!

    It is supposedly the Last Supper. John, chapter 13, verse 36 has Peter ask Jesus: "Where are you going?" Then John, chapter 14, verse 5 has Thomas say to him: "We know not where you are going." But John, chapter 16, verse 5, has Jesus reply: "None of you are asking me where I'm going!"

    In John, chapter 7, verse 38, Jesus reportedly says: "Scripture said: 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water'." There is no such passage in the Hebrew Tanach or anything resembling it.

    Matthew 2:23 says that: "He came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, he shall be called a Nazarene." There is no mention of this in the Ketuvim (the prophets). This narrated prophecy does not even exist! In the Old Testament (King James Version), the words "Nazareth" and "Nazarene" do not ever appear!

    Jesus says that it was Zechariah, son of Berechiah, who was killed in the Temple courtyard (Matthew 23:35). Apparently Jesus didn't read the Bible very closely or he would have known it was another Zechariah, whose father was Jehoiada, who was killed there (II Chronicles 24:2-22).


    Regarding Jesus' stepfather, was he Joseph son of Jacob son of Mattan son of Eliezer (Matthew 1:15-16) or Joseph son of Eli son of Mattat son of Levi (Luke 3:23-24)? And how can both sets of genealogical tables validly include Shealtiel and Zerubabbel (Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27), given that both of these men are descendants of Jeconiah (1 Chronicles 3:16-19), of whom G-d has said: "No man of his seed shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David or ruling any more in Judah" (Jeremiah 22-30)?

    Who's to judge the sinner? According to Jesus in John, chapter 5, verse 22: "For the Father judges no man but has committed all judgment to the Son" (meaning Jesus himself). But, then Jesus contradicts himself; "I judge no man" (John 8:15) and "I did not come to judge the world (John 12:47)." So who did? Listen to Jesus this time: "You (disciples) shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19:28). Unfortunately, this contradicts Jesus' original warning to them: "Not to judge, lest you be judged (Matthew 7:1)."

    Paul says. "It is shameful for a man to wear his hair long" (I Corinthians 11:14) What of Samson?

    "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:8). Yet, Jesus asserted the contrary; that he "did not come to bring peace on earth, but a sword" in Matthew, chapter 10, verse 34.

    John, chapter 14, verse 9 says: "he who has seen me (in reference to Jesus) has seen the Father." This would include his mother, disciples, and others. However, the Torah teacher that "He who has seen the face of G-d shall die (Exodus 33:20)." This Torah verse amounts to eternal damnation in fundamentalist Christian theology. (Note: Even in our times, thousands of Christians claim to have seen Jesus.). Also, isn't it said that moses looked upon god?

    Acts 7:14 says that 75 souls went down to Egypt. Yet, Genesis 46:27 it says "threescore and ten" (70) went down to Egypt.

    Continuing with Matthew 26, we find in verses 17 through 20 that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder. On the contrary, we find in John 19:14 that it was the preparation day for the Passover.

    Hebrews, chapter 9, verse 22 says: "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin." But, the Bible, in Isaiah, chapter 43, verses 23 through 25 teaches just the opposite; "You (Israelites) have not honored me (G-d) with your (blood) sacrifices. (Nevertheless) I will forgive your sins." And Hosea, chapter 14, verse 2 says G-d accepts "words" of thanks (prayer in place of sacrifices).

    Romans, chapter 10, verse 13: "For whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." But Matthew, chapter 7, verse 21 says "Not everybody who says to me (Jesus), Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom." Thus, we learn that Jesus is not G-d or an emissary of G-d.

    It is claimed in Ecclesians 1:4 that the earth does abideth forever. In II Peter 3:10, the opposite is stated.

    The claim is made that Jesus "justified" the sinner (Romans 4:5; Romans 15:9). But, the Bible in Proverbs 17, verse 15 teaches that "He who justifies the sinner is an abomination to G-d."

    According to Matthew, Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great (Matthew 2:1). According to Luke, Jesus was born during the first census in Israel, while Quirinius was governor of Syria (Luke 2:2). This is impossible because Herod died in March of 4 BC and the census took place in 6 and 7 AD, about 10 years after Herod's death.

    Of all the writers of the New Testament, only Matthew and Luke mention the virgin birth. Had something as miraculous as the virgin birth actually occurred, one would expect that Mark and John would have at least mentioned it in their efforts to convince the world that Jesus was who they were claiming him to be.
    The apostle Paul never mentions the virgin birth, even though it would have strengthened his arguments in several places. Instead, where Paul does refer to Jesus' birth, he says that Jesus "was born of the seed of David" (Romans 1:3) and was "born of a woman," not a virgin (Galatians 4:4).

    Both Matthew and Luke say that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Matthew quotes Micah 5:2 to show that this was in fulfillment of prophecy. Actually, Matthew misquotes Micah (compare Micah 5:2 to Matthew 2:6). Although this misquote is rather insignificant, Matthew's poor understanding of Hebrew will have great significance later in his gospel.
    Luke has Mary and Joseph travelling from their home in Nazareth in Galilee to Bethlehem in Judea for the birth of Jesus (Luke 2:4). Matthew, in contradiction to Luke, says that it was only after the birth of Jesus that Mary and Joseph resided in Nazareth, and then only because they were afraid to return to Judea (Matthew 2:21-23).
    In order to have Jesus born in Bethlehem, Luke says that everyone had to go to the city of their birth to register for the census. This is absurd, and would have caused a bureaucratic nightmare. The purpose of the Roman census was for taxation, and the Romans were interested in where the people lived and worked, not where they were born (which they could have found out by simply asking rather than causing thousands of people to travel).

    Matthew says that Herod, in an attempt to kill the newborn Messiah, had all the male children two years old and under put to death in Bethlehem and its environs, and that this was in fulfillment of prophecy.
    This is a pure invention on Matthew's part. Herod was guilty of many monstrous crimes, including the murder of several members of his own family. However, ancient historians such as Josephus, who delighted in listing Herod's crimes, do not mention what would have been Herod's greatest crime by far. It simply didn't happen.
    The context of Jeremiah 31:15 makes it clear that the weeping is for the Israelites about to be taken into exile in Babylon, and has nothing to do with slaughtered children hundreds of years later.

    John baptized for repentance (Matthew 3:11). Since Jesus was supposedly without sin, he had nothing to repent of

    In Matthew, Mark and Luke the last supper takes place on the first day of the Passover (Matthew 26:17, Mark 14:12, Luke 22:7). In John's gospel it takes place a day earlier and Jesus is crucified on the first day of the Passover (John 19:14).

    Just who IS the naked man?

    According to Matthew 26:15, the chief priests "weighed out thirty pieces of silver" to give to Judas. There are two things wrong with this:

    a. There were no "pieces of silver" used as currency in Jesus' time - they had gone out of circulation about 300 years before.

    b. In Jesus' time, minted coins were used - currency was not "weighed out."

    By using phrases that made sense in Zechariah's time but not in Jesus' time Matthew once again gives away the fact that he creates events in his gospel to match "prophecies" he finds in the Old Testament.

    In Matthew 27:7 the chief priests buy the field.
    b. In Acts 1:18 Judas buys the field.

    to Matthew 27:51-53, at the moment Jesus died there was an earthquake that opened tombs and many people were raised from the dead. For some reason they stayed in their tombs until after Jesus was resurrected, at which time they went into Jerusalem and were seen by many people.
    Here Matthew gets too dramatic for his own good. If many people came back to life and were seen by many people, it must have created quite a stir (even if the corpses were in pretty good shape!). Yet Matthew seems to be the only person aware of this happening - historians of that time certainly know nothing of it - neither do the other gospel writers.

    a. According to Matthew 28:1, only "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary."

    b. According to Mark 16:1, "Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome."

    c. According to Luke 23:55, 24:1 and 24:10, "the women who had come with him out of Galilee." Among these women were "Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James." Luke indicates in verse 24:10 that there were at least two others.

    d. According to John 20:1-4, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb alone, saw the stone removed, ran to find Peter, and returned to the tomb with Peter and another disciple.


    a. According to Matthew 28:2-4, an angel of the Lord with an appearance like lightning was sitting on the stone that had been rolled away. Also present were the guards that Pilate had contributed. On the way back from the tomb the women meet Jesus (Matthew 28:9).

    b. According to Mark 16:5, a young man in a white robe was sitting inside the tomb.

    c. According to Luke 24:4, two men in dazzling apparel. It is not clear if the men were inside the tomb or outside of it.

    d. According to John 20:4-14, Mary and Peter and the other disciple initially find just an empty tomb. Peter and the other disciple enter the tomb and find only the wrappings. Then Peter and the other disciple leave and Mary looks in the tomb to find two angels in white. After a short conversation with the angels, Mary turns around to find Jesus.

    a. According to Mark 16:8, "they said nothing to anyone."

    b. According to Matthew 28:8, they "ran to report it to His disciples."

    c. According to Luke 24:9, "they reported these things to the eleven and to all the rest."

    d. According to John 20:18, Mary Magdalene announces to the disciples that she has seen the Lord.

    According to Luke 24:51, Jesus' ascension took place in Bethany, on the same day as his resurrection.

    According to Acts 1:9-12, Jesus' ascension took place at Mount Olivet, forty days after his resurrection.

    According to Matthew 5:18, Jesus said that not the tiniest bit of the Law could be changed. However, in Mark 7:19 Jesus declares that all foods are clean, thereby drastically changing the Law.

    After Jesus' triumphant entry into Jerusalem a sees a fig tree and wants some figs from it. He finds none on it so he curses the tree and it withers and dies (Matthew 21:18-20, Mark 11:12-14, 20-21).

    1. Since this occurred in the early spring before Passover, it is ridiculous of Jesus to expect figs to be on the tree.

    2. Matthew and Mark cannot agree on when the tree withered.

    a. In Matthew, the tree withers at once and the disciples comment on this fact (Matthew 21:19-20).

    b. In Mark, the tree is not found to be withered until at least the next day (Mark 11:20-21).

    In Matthew 28:19 Jesus tells the eleven disciples to "go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit."

    1. This is obviously a later addition to the gospel, for two reasons:

    a. It took the church over two hundred years of fighting (sometimes bloody) over the doctrine of the trinity before this baptismal formula came into use. Had it been in the original gospel, there would have been no fighting.

    b. In Acts, when people are baptized, they are baptized just in the name of Jesus (Acts 8:16, 10:48, 19:5). Peter says explicitly that they are to "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins" (Acts 2:38).

    2. This contradicts Jesus' earlier statement that his message was for the Jews only (Matthew 10:5-6, 15:24). The gospels, and especially Acts, have been edited to play this down, but the contradiction remains. It was the apostle Paul who, against the express wishes of Jesus, extended the gospel (Paul's version) to the gentiles.

    Jude 14 contains a prophecy of Enoch. Thus, if the Book of Jude is the Word of God, then the writings of "Enoch" from which Jude quotes, are also the Word of God. The Book of Enoch was used in the early church until at least the third century - Clement, Irenaeus and Tertullian were familiar with it. However, as church doctrine began to solidify, the Book of Enoch became an embarrassment to the church and in a short period of time it became the Lost Book of Enoch. A complete manuscript of the Book of Enoch was discovered in Ethiopia in 1768. Since then, portions of at least eight separate copies have been found among the Dead Sea scrolls. It is easy to see why the church had to get rid of Enoch - not only does it contain fantastic imagery (some of which was borrowed by the Book of Revelation), but it also contradicts church doctrine on several points (and, since it is obviously the work of several writers, it also contradicts itself).

    ey "stood speechless, hearing the voice..."

    2. Acts 22:9 says they "did not hear the voice..."

    3. Acts 26:14 says "when we had all fallen to the ground..."

    Joseph, Mary, and Jesus flee to Egypt while Herod slaughters all males under 2 years old. Mt.2:13-16. (Note: Jesus' cousin, John, was also under 2 and survived without having to flee.)
    Joseph, Mary, and Jesus did not flee to Egypt, but remained for temple rituals. No slaughter of infants is mentioned! Lk.2:21-39.

    Satan tempted Jesus. Mt.4:1-10; Mk.1:13; Lk.4:1,2.
    Satan had no interest in Jesus. Jn.14:30.

    Jesus begins his ministry after John's arrest. Mk.1:13,14.
    Jesus begins his ministry before John's arrest. Jn.3:22-24.

    Non-believers obtain mercy. Rom.11:32.
    Only believers obtain mercy. Jn.3:36; Rom.14:23.
    Only baptized believers obtain mercy. Mk.16:16.
    Mercy cannot be predetermined. Rom.9:18.

    A demon cries out that Jesus is the Holy One of God. Mk.1:23,24.
    Everyone who confesses that Jesus came in the flesh is of God. 1 Jn.4:2.

    Jesus said to honor your father and mother. Mt.15:4; Mt.19:19; Mk.7:10; Mk.10:19; Lk.18:20.
    Jesus said that he came to set people against their parents. Mt.10:35-37; Lk.12:51-53; Lk.14:26.
    Jesus said to call no man father. Mt.23:9.

    Jesus/God said, "You fool…". Lk.12:20; Mt.23:17.
    Paul calls people fools. 1 Cor.15:36.
    Call someone a fool and you go to he

    Ask and it shall be given. Seek and you will find. Knock and it will be opened to you. Mt.7:7,8; Lk.11:9,10.
    Ask and you shall be refused. Seek and you won't find. Knock and you will be refused entrance. Lk.13:24-27.

    # Jesus is thankful that some things are hidden. Mt.11:25; Mk.4:11,12.
    Jesus said that all things should be made known. Mk.4:22.

    Repentance is necessary. Acts 3:19; Lu.3:3.
    Repentance is not necessary. Rom.11:29.

    All who call on the "Lord" will be saved. Rom.10:13; Acts 2:21.
    Only those predestined will be saved. Acts 13:48; Eph.1:4,5; 2 Thes.2:13; Acts 2:47.

    The righteous have eternal life. Mt.25:46.
    The righteous are barely saved. 1 Pet.4:18.
    There are no righteous. Rom.3:10.

    Believe and be baptized to be saved. Mk.16:16.
    Be baptized by water and the spirit to be saved. Jn.3:5.
    Endure to the end to be saved. Mt.24:13.
    Call on the name of the "Lord" to be saved. Acts 2:21; Rom.10:13.
    Believe in Jesus to be saved. Acts 16:31.
    Believe, then all your household will be saved. Acts 16:31.
    Hope and you will be saved. Rom.8:24.
    Believe in the resurrection to be saved. Rom.10:9.
    By grace you are saved. Eph.2:5
    By grace and faith you are saved. Eph.2:8.
    Have the love of truth to be saved. 2 Thes.2:10.
    Mercy saves. Titus 3:5.
    :eek:

    :cuckoo:

    God leads you into temptation. Mt.6:13.
    God tempts no one. Jms.1:13.

    Jesus founds his church on Peter. Mt.16:18.
    Jesus calls Peter "Satan" and a hindrance. Mt.16:23.

    Jesus responds that this favor is not his to give. Mt.20:23; Mk.10:40.
    Jesus said that all authority is given to him. Mt.28:18; Jn

    Peter’s second denial was to another maid. Mt.26:71,72.
    It was to the same maid. Mk.14:69,70.
    It was to a man and not a maid. Lk.22:58.
    It was to more than one person. Jn.18:25.

    Jesus was crucified at the third hour. Mk.15:25.
    Jesus was still before Pilate at the sixth hour. Jn.19:13,14.

    Version 1: “Eli, Eli …My God, My God why have you forsaken me” Mt.27:46.
    Version 2: “Eloi, Eloi…My God, My God why have you forsaken me” Mk.15:34.
    Version 3: “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit”. Lk.23:46.
    Version 4: “It is finished”. Jn.19:30.

    Upon their arrival, the stone was still in place. Mt.28:1 2.
    Upon their arrival, the stone had been removed. Mk.16:4; Lk.24:2; Jn.20:1.

    # Both “thieves” mocked Jesus on the cross. Mt. 27:44; Mk.15:32.
    One “thief” sided with Jesus on the cross. Lu.23:39-41.

    # Nicodemus prepared the body with spices. Jn.19:39,40.
    Failing to notice this, the women bought spices to prepare the body later. Mk. 16:1; Lu.23:55,56.
    # The body was anointed. Jn.19:39,40.
    The body was not anointed. Mk.15:46 to 16:1; Lk.23:55 to 24:1.

    # Jesus ascended on the third day after the resurrection. Lk.24:21,50,51.
    Jesus ascended the same day as the crucifixion. Lk.23:42 43.
    Jesus ascended forty days after the resurrection. Acts 1:3,9.

    # At the time of the ascension, there were about 120 brethren. Acts 1:15.
    At the time of the ascension, there were about 500 brethren. 1 Cor.15:6.

    Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin. Mk.3:29.
    All sins are forgivable. Acts 13:39; Col.2:13; 1 Jn.1:9.

    Sometimes God is responsible for unbelief. 2 Thes.2:11,12.
    Sometimes Jesus is responsible for unbelief. Mk.4:11,12.
    The devil causes unbelief. Lk.8:12.

    Whoever hates his brother is a murderer. 1 Jn.3:15.
    If anyone claims to love God but hates his brother, he is a liar. 1 Jn.4:20.
    No one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his brother. Lk.14:26

    Men can choose whether or not to believe. Jn.5:38-47.
    Only God chooses who will believe. Jn.6:44.

    God wants all men to be saved. 1 Tim.2:3,4; 2 Pet.3:9.
    God does not want all men to be saved. Jn.12:40.

    God hated Esau and loved Jacob even before they were born. Rom.9:10-13.
    God shows no partiality and treats all alike. Acts 10:34; Rom.2:11.

    He that does not believe is damned. Mk.16:16.
    Thomas did not believe and was not damned. Jn.20:27-29.

    Jesus is God. Jn.10:30.
    Jesus is the “image” of God. 2 Cor.4:4.
    Jesus was a man approved by God. Acts 2:22.

    # Those present at Paul’s conversion heard a voice but saw nothing. Acts 9:7.
    Those present at Paul’s conversion saw a light but heard nothing. Acts 22:9.

    The holy spirit forbids preaching in Asia. Acts 16:6.
    Paul preaches in Asia anyway. Acts 19:8-10
     
  2. JBeukema
    Offline

    JBeukema BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    25,613
    Thanks Received:
    1,703
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    everywhere and nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,705
    the 'bible' as an infallible source of the word of an infallible god: DEBUNKED
    'Gogd' can defend and protect his word: DEBUNKED
    The NT 'fixes' the OT: DEBUNKED

    Once again: Christianity: FUNDAMENTAL PREMISE DEBUNKED
     
  3. del
    Offline

    del BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    45,052
    Thanks Received:
    9,830
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +9,885
    *yawn*

    it's always nice to see another religious fanatic on the boards. they add so much.
     
  4. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,847
    Thanks Received:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +182
    I don't think that's the fundamental premise. As I understand it, the fundamental premise is that Christ was the son of God and was sent to earth to die so that those who accepted him could be forgiven of their sins and find a place in heaven in the afterlife.

    I'm not a Christian (or an adherent to any religion). That said, however, none of what you posted debunks that fundamental premise. I think it would be impossible to debunk, actually, which is why it is a matter of faith.
     
  5. JBeukema
    Offline

    JBeukema BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    25,613
    Thanks Received:
    1,703
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    everywhere and nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,705
    actually, even that claim is based on biblical teaching- that's the source of the story that is cited. Therefore, the validity and truth of the bible is the underlying premise for accepting what it says
     
  6. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,847
    Thanks Received:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +182
    The contradictions you presented don't have any bearing on the underlying truth of the fundamental premise, however. The underlying story of Christ could be true even if a book written about it after his death, and altered over centuries, contains contradictions.

    So while you might say you have 'raised questions' about the fundamental premise of Christianity, by pointing out errors in the manuscript, you haven't debunked it (and again, I think debunking it would be impossible).
     
  7. JBeukema
    Offline

    JBeukema BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    25,613
    Thanks Received:
    1,703
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    everywhere and nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,705
    Jesus' claims, in turn rest upon the old testament- riddles with pitas own problems and impossible to take seriously as a reliable text for something so important
     
  8. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,847
    Thanks Received:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +182
    I don't disagree with that. But it doesn't constitute proof the claims are false. The reason these types of debates, while interesting, never convince anyone, is that when you get down to it the underlying subject matter can't be proven or disproven.
     
  9. JBeukema
    Offline

    JBeukema BANNED

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    25,613
    Thanks Received:
    1,703
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    everywhere and nowhere
    Ratings:
    +1,705
    then it is assumed false, just like my claims that I have an invisible, undetectable blue elephant with webbed feet and purple wings that only I and those who have 'faith' can see

    Any reasonable person would have me committed if i believed such a thing. Oh, and it decides whether you go to heaven or hell
     
  10. Steerpike
    Offline

    Steerpike VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,847
    Thanks Received:
    182
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +182
    Sure, assumed false by you. Me too, for that matter. But others have 'religious' experiences that are personalized, subjective, and completely unavailable for any kind of rational scrutiny. So arguments aren't going to be convincing.
     

Share This Page