Needed: universal health CARE, not insurance

[jokingwolf]

Language is the beginning of the problem. No one working on the problem seems to be able to leave the insurance industry out of the equation. Is this because of intense lobbying by the industry, to the extent legislators are afraid to even mention the possibility of, perhaps, expanding Medicare to cover everyone, leaving the healthcare industry to fend for itself?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Needed: universal health CARE, not insurance

Sure, if you want to suffer and die an early death.

 

[SFC Ollie]

What is needed is more affordable healthcare. You know the one main objective that started out this whole "redo healthcare" BS. Before it was turned into Obamacare and a power grab.

More affordable healthcare, what a concept.............

 

[jokingwolf]

I lived in England for a decade. The healthcare system worked great for me and my wife and child, with the lack of fear of being driven into bankruptcy by medical care.
When i moved back to the U.S. and finally realized i needed health insurance, i was looted and plundered by the healthcare insurance industry, coming in to a plan at what looked like a good rate and then having the premiums quickly raised to a level beyond my means.
When i did have an accident (broken ankle) in Houston, the ensuing costs were crippling to my business, and the care received was not noticeably better than i would have received in England; in fact, in the hospital i got a staph infection that nearly crippled me for good.

 

[RDD_1210]

Needed: universal health CARE, not insurance

Sure, if you want to suffer and die an early death.

Your posts were once insightful and had merit.

What happened?

 

[RDD_1210]

What is needed is more affordable healthcare. You know the one main objective that started out this whole "redo healthcare" BS. Before it was turned into Obamacare and a power grab.

More affordable healthcare, what a concept.............

Blah, Blah......and how do you propose we make that happen?


Let me guess.....tort reform, opening up restrictions for selling across state lines and less "government regulations".

That should cover the trifecta of "ideas" that the sheep love to fall back on.

 

[Meister]

What is needed is more affordable healthcare. You know the one main objective that started out this whole "redo healthcare" BS. Before it was turned into Obamacare and a power grab.

More affordable healthcare, what a concept.............

Blah, Blah......and how do you propose we make that happen?


Let me guess.....tort reform, opening up restrictions for selling across state lines and less "government regulations".

That should cover the trifecta of "ideas" that the sheep love to fall back on.

I really love the idea you libs have that the government can make healthcare affordable and still viable without debt.

 

[SFC Ollie]

What is needed is more affordable healthcare. You know the one main objective that started out this whole "redo healthcare" BS. Before it was turned into Obamacare and a power grab.

More affordable healthcare, what a concept.............

Blah, Blah......and how do you propose we make that happen?


Let me guess.....tort reform, opening up restrictions for selling across state lines and less "government regulations".

That should cover the trifecta of "ideas" that the sheep love to fall back on.

Lord forbid that any of this is tried and actually works........... I'm certain there are other Ideas out there coming from people smarter than anyone on this board.......Obviously Obamacare doesn't work............

 

[RDD_1210]

What is needed is more affordable healthcare. You know the one main objective that started out this whole "redo healthcare" BS. Before it was turned into Obamacare and a power grab.

More affordable healthcare, what a concept.............

Blah, Blah......and how do you propose we make that happen?


Let me guess.....tort reform, opening up restrictions for selling across state lines and less "government regulations".

That should cover the trifecta of "ideas" that the sheep love to fall back on.

Lord forbid that any of this is tried and actually works........... I'm certain there are other Ideas out there coming from people smarter than anyone on this board.......Obviously Obamacare doesn't work............

Obviously. I mean it hasn't even been close to fully implemented yet, but you KNOW it doesn't work. Miss Cleo, is that you?

Obamacare is FAR from perfect, but it's better than what we had before. And it's the best we're going to get until people get serious about reforming how the system works entirely. And news flash, restricting lawsuits ain't it.

 

[RDD_1210]

What is needed is more affordable healthcare. You know the one main objective that started out this whole "redo healthcare" BS. Before it was turned into Obamacare and a power grab.

More affordable healthcare, what a concept.............

Blah, Blah......and how do you propose we make that happen?


Let me guess.....tort reform, opening up restrictions for selling across state lines and less "government regulations".

That should cover the trifecta of "ideas" that the sheep love to fall back on.

I really love the idea you libs have that the government can make healthcare affordable and still viable without debt.

Funny how I don't remember ever saying that...oh, thats right, because I didn't.

 

[whitehall]

The world needs a lot of things. Free energy would be nice and universal housing. Too bad you can't bribe and cheat and pass laws in the middle of the night to make the world a better place. Grandiose government programs usually don't work because the people who create them are usually dishonest or ignorant politicians who have no idea what the real world is like. LBJ's "great society" program was an abject failure and we are still throwing taxpayer money at it to fund poverty pimps who promise votes for democrats.

 

[Warrior102]

I lived in England for a decade. The healthcare system worked great for me and my wife and child, with the lack of fear of being driven into bankruptcy by medical care.When i moved back to the U.S. and finally realized i needed health insurance, i was looted and plundered by the healthcare insurance industry, coming in to a plan at what looked like a good rate and then having the premiums quickly raised to a level beyond my means.
When i did have an accident (broken ankle) in Houston, the ensuing costs were crippling to my business, and the care received was not noticeably better than i would have received in England; in fact, in the hospital i got a staph infection that nearly crippled me for good.

And half of what you earned was taxed, right?

 

[Meister]

Blah, Blah......and how do you propose we make that happen?


Let me guess.....tort reform, opening up restrictions for selling across state lines and less "government regulations".

That should cover the trifecta of "ideas" that the sheep love to fall back on.

I really love the idea you libs have that the government can make healthcare affordable and still viable without debt.

Funny how I don't remember ever saying that...oh, thats right, because I didn't.

Your a wingnut sheep, you may not have stated it.....but you think it.
You all live in a nanny dream.

 

[jokingwolf]

I lived in England for a decade. The healthcare system worked great for me and my wife and child, with the lack of fear of being driven into bankruptcy by medical care.When i moved back to the U.S. and finally realized i needed health insurance, i was looted and plundered by the healthcare insurance industry, coming in to a plan at what looked like a good rate and then having the premiums quickly raised to a level beyond my means.
When i did have an accident (broken ankle) in Houston, the ensuing costs were crippling to my business, and the care received was not noticeably better than i would have received in England; in fact, in the hospital i got a staph infection that nearly crippled me for good.

And half of what you earned was taxed, right?

Taxes were high (i don't remember the exact percentage), yes, but when the money is used to support programs like medical care, that's fine with me. I have to say, as untrustworthy as governments are, insurance companies are worse.

As i said, the insurance premiums for me and my son became more than i could afford in Houston, and when i needed medical care the hospital nearly killed or maimed me (picked up a staph infection which would have invaded the bone given another day or so), where the medical care in England actually fixed things without threatening to make matters worse.

I have had other bad experiences with insurance companies (auto and business insurance).

 

[Political Junky]

Needed: universal health CARE, not insurance

Sure, if you want to suffer and die an early death.

Compare our life expectancy to countries with universal healthcare...they win.

 

[California Girl]

I lived in England for a decade. The healthcare system worked great for me and my wife and child, with the lack of fear of being driven into bankruptcy by medical care.
When i moved back to the U.S. and finally realized i needed health insurance, i was looted and plundered by the healthcare insurance industry, coming in to a plan at what looked like a good rate and then having the premiums quickly raised to a level beyond my means.
When i did have an accident (broken ankle) in Houston, the ensuing costs were crippling to my business, and the care received was not noticeably better than i would have received in England; in fact, in the hospital i got a staph infection that nearly crippled me for good.

The Brits have a good theory. Sadly, it is tettering on collapse... and, for such a small country... their NHS is the fourth largest employer in the world. Not just their country, on the whole fucking planet... and that's in a country of 62 million. Now, just think what kind of monstrosity of a system that would be in a country with over 300 million. Fucking idiot.

Oh, and just for the craic of it... in England, you may have to sue your local health authority to receive life saving cancer treatment... but you can get gender reassignment as standard..... their system is fucking ridiculous.

Oh and..... it's VASTLY expensive for what it provides. Anyone with a brain in the UK has private health insurance instead - they still have to pay for the NHS though... even if they don't use it.

 

[jokingwolf]

Needed: universal health CARE, not insurance

Sure, if you want to suffer and die an early death.

Compare our life expectancy to countries with universal healthcare...they win.

Infant mortality is another easy-to-access statistic. We come in at number 46, just below Guam.

 

[jokingwolf]

I lived in England for a decade. The healthcare system worked great for me and my wife and child, with the lack of fear of being driven into bankruptcy by medical care.
When i moved back to the U.S. and finally realized i needed health insurance, i was looted and plundered by the healthcare insurance industry, coming in to a plan at what looked like a good rate and then having the premiums quickly raised to a level beyond my means.
When i did have an accident (broken ankle) in Houston, the ensuing costs were crippling to my business, and the care received was not noticeably better than i would have received in England; in fact, in the hospital i got a staph infection that nearly crippled me for good.

The Brits have a good theory. Sadly, it is tettering on collapse... and, for such a small country... their NHS is the fourth largest employer in the world. Not just their country, on the whole fucking planet... and that's in a country of 62 million. Now, just think what kind of monstrosity of a system that would be in a country with over 300 million. Fucking idiot.

Oh, and just for the craic of it... in England, you may have to sue your local health authority to receive life saving cancer treatment... but you can get gender reassignment as standard..... their system is fucking ridiculous.

Oh and..... it's VASTLY expensive for what it provides. Anyone with a brain in the UK has private health insurance instead - they still have to pay for the NHS though... even if they don't use it.

Private health insurance in England is for people with plenty of money; the last company i worked for there supplied it at considerable cost to the company and therefore to the employees. I had surgery under each system, and the only difference i noticed in treatment was whether i woke up in a large multi-patient ward or in a private room.

I'll look up the story about sueing to get cancer treatment; it doesn't fit with my experience there, but maybe you can give a reference to look it up.

 

[Meister]

Sure, if you want to suffer and die an early death.

Compare our life expectancy to countries with universal healthcare...they win.

Infant mortality is another easy-to-access statistic. We come in at number 46, just below Guam.

Other coutries count differently than we do, they don't use the same criteria that we do. A fail on your part.

 

[Meister]

Needed: universal health CARE, not insurance

Sure, if you want to suffer and die an early death.

Compare our life expectancy to countries with universal healthcare...they win.

1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the United Kingdom and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians. Breast cancer mortality in Canada is 9 percent higher than in the United States, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher, and colon cancer among men is about 10 percent higher.

3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries. Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit from statin drugs, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease, are taking them. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons, and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians. Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate, and colon cancer:

More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a prostatespecific antigen (PSA) test, compared to fewer than one in six Canadians (16 percent).

Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with fewer than one in twenty Canadians (5 percent).

5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with below-median incomes self-report “excellent” health (11.7 percent) compared to Canadian seniors (5.8 percent). Conversely, white, young Canadian adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower-income Americans to describe their health as “fair or poor.”
10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care | Publications | National Center for Policy Analysis | NCPA


1. Life expectancy: many people die for reasons that can’t be controlled the medical profession, such as auto accidents, murder, etc., and once you factor out car crashes and homicides, the US ranks number one in worldwide life expectancy!

a. “One often-heard argument, voiced by the New York Times' Paul Krugman and others, is that America lags behind other countries in crude health outcomes. But such outcomes reflect a mosaic of factors, such as diet, lifestyle, drug use and cultural values. It pains me as a doctor to say this, but health care is just one factor in health.

In "The Business of Health", Robert Ohsfeldt and John Schneider factor out intentional and unintentional injuries from life-expectancy statistics and find that Americans who don't die in car crashes or homicides outlive people in any other Western country.
And if we measure a health care system by how well it serves its sick citizens, American medicine excels.
http://davepetno.com/onfreedom/

Thank you PoliticalChic