Name Me One Country! Just One!

[Red Dawn]

I wasn't passing it off as libertarian nirvana. As I explained, I gave it as an example of decentralization. Having governments cover less than 10 million people is pretty decentralized. Would any liberal seriously argue that the nations of europe would be better off abolishing all their programs and having the EU run them? If so, then why do they have such a hard-on for putting all the power in Washington DC?

I understand they have cantons with significant autonomy over local issues.

I don't want an all powerful federal government, who runs our local school boards, state parks, and local infrastructure and zoning laws.

I'm would be totally cool with a national government that was limited to providing a generous social welfare infrastructure, enforced civil rights, and regulated interstate commerce.

I'm frankly shocked that libertarians would cite this- i.e., switzerland; as an example of "limited" government. I thought universal healthcare and a generous national social welfare system was the anti thesis of what libertarians wanted.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Its not all the power , its things like healthcare, and schools which you knot heads always call BIG Government or the welfare state.

But even if you are a socialist, even if you want free education and health care and all that, there is no logical reason to have one centralized bureau to cover all 300 million americans.

Our education system grows more and more centralized every year, with the national-level Department of Education growing in budget and authority, even under a republican government, and what do we have to show for it? Nothing! The educational establishment is as insulated from reality as ever. Faddish nonsense like "new math" and non-phonics reading are as big as ever. Meanwhile, the most highly educated kids in the US are home-schooled, which is literally the most decentralized schooling possible.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

I'm frankly shocked that libertarians would cite this- i.e., switzerland; as an example of "limited" government. I thought universal healthcare and a generous national social welfare system was the anti thesis of what libertarians wanted.

To repeat myself, again: I banged out the word "switzerland" on page one with decentralism in mind, not small government. I probably should have clarified.

 

[Truthmatters]

The people in charge right now do not want our kids educated.

That is whey they are teaching to the test.

 

[Truthmatters]

I understand they have cantons with significant autonomy over local issues.

I don't want an all powerful federal government, who runs our local school boards, state parks, and local infrastructure and zoning laws.

I'm would be totally cool with a national government that was limited to providing a generous social welfare infrastructure, enforced civil rights, and regulated interstate commerce.

I'm frankly shocked that libertarians would cite this- i.e., switzerland; as an example of "limited" government. I thought universal healthcare and a generous national social welfare system was the anti thesis of what libertarians wanted.

Its because they cant site one in which their own philosophies work. It is like communism , its sounds great on paper but can not exisist is reality when applied to human interaction. It quickly turns into something else every time with horrible results for the masses.

 

[Red Dawn]

To repeat myself, again: I banged out the word "switzerland" on page one with decentralism in mind, not small government. I probably should have clarified.

okay fair enough.


i might have been mixing you up with others on this thread. I was under the impression that Paul, or somebody, was trying to say that switzerland is an example of the type of country with small, limited government that was an example of american libertarian ideology

 

[Paulie]

I really wish people would study other countrues more in our USA.

This is why republicans hate to spend money on schools.

Any attempt to make schools better is always met with the Idiots statement of "throwing money at the problem".

Like you can effect any good change without spending money.

When their own kid asks for money for college do they tell them "I'm not going to throw money at your problem".

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

you really stepped in it this time huh?

History of Sweden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They have been doing this since post WWII.

Boy did you just make yourself look like a moron.

We're talking about Switzerland, and you're giving links to Sweden, talking about people "stepping in it".

Right now it appears as though there's quite a lot of dogshit on your shoes, dummy.

Its because they cant site one in which their own philosophies work. It is like communism , its sounds great on paper but can not exisist is reality when applied to human interaction. It quickly turns into something else every time with horrible results for the masses.

Yeah, blah blah blah, you're a broken record. You can't even involve yourself in a thread without one of your liberal buddies who's more educated to give you a piggy back.

 

[Paulie]

okay fair enough.


i might have been mixing you up with others on this thread. I was under the impression that Paul, or somebody, was trying to say that switzerland is an example of the type of country with small, limited government that was an example of american libertarian ideology

Decentralization was the point I was making as well, and also didn't clarify. I provided a link earlier in the thread which shows how their decentralization has been a benefit to their employment status, and how growing government has been a detriment, particularly during the 90's.

No one compared it to some kind of "American libertarian ideology". It was just a prime example of how a smaller bureaucracy breeds prosperity.

I'm not surprised you didn't pick up on it, considering that critical thinking problem that seems to be persistently hampering you.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Its because they cant site one in which their own philosophies work. It is like communism , its sounds great on paper but can not exisist is reality when applied to human interaction. It quickly turns into something else every time with horrible results for the masses.

There isn't a single perfect example, no. This is not proof that our ideal is inherently unworkable, it's proof that governments like to grab as much power and money as they can, and hand out freebies to voters.

You guys are confusing cause and effect. You assume that the welfare state generates prosperity, when in fact the welfare state is a luxury that europeans can afford because of economic growth. The biggest improvements in living standards came roughly from 1815-1915, when the average western country had relatively restrained spending, relatively free trade, strong property rights, and the gold standard for money.

 

[Truthmatters]

If unfettered markets would work as well as you claim one would have developed. What happens when you unfetter a market you get the industrial revovlution type of situation.
The welth concentrates into fewer and fewer hands until you have a populace ready to revolt. It can not work for the same reasons communism doesnt work in reality. people seek power over others. Its a pipe dream and the sooner dreamers like you give up the childish idea the sooner we can make this country a better place for all Americans.

 

[AmericaFirst]

It is possible to have a 'good' BIG government, although I don't think it's necessary, what has to happen is the FED needs shut down and the government needs to SPEND the money into the economy rather than the current fucked up Kleptomania of creating debt money to the evil private bankers. Just image a USA with NO Federal tax, NO Federal debt and NO Federal deficit!!

 

[Truthmatters]

Another pipe dream

 

[Truthmatters]

Charles Lindbergh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think you should know that Lindbergh was wrong about many things.

 

[AmericaFirst]

Charles Lindbergh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think you should know that Lindbergh was wrong about many things.

So are you, now what in particular are you referring to?

 

[AmericaFirst]

Another pipe dream

Actually without the FED and it's debt dollar my statements are correct.

 

[Paulie]

Don't mind truthie, she's just falling back on her typical tactic of ignoring the real discussion when she has no logical response, or when one of the other liberals aren't there for her to piggyback. She goes into her obligatory "unfettered markets have never worked and neither has communism" mantra. It's like a broken record. It's all she can ever say, besides citing a wikipedia entry as though somehow THAT'S the bastion of all things truth.

You'll get to know her soon enough. She provides comic relief in an otherwise serious thread. Maybe she's not all that bad afterall.

 

[Truthmatters]

So are you, now what in particular are you referring to?

Your pride an joy signature.

 

[Truthmatters]

Don't mind truthie, she's just falling back on her typical tactic of ignoring the real discussion when she has no logical response, or when one of the other liberals aren't there for her to piggyback. She goes into her obligatory "unfettered markets have never worked and neither has communism" mantra. It's like a broken record. It's all she can ever say, besides citing a wikipedia entry as though somehow THAT'S the bastion of all things truth.

You'll get to know her soon enough. She provides comic relief in an otherwise serious thread. Maybe she's not all that bad afterall.

I say it because its true.

where is the proof your hopes and dreams will work in the real world?

they are non exsistant.

 

[Paulie]

I say it because its true.

where is the proof your hopes and dreams will work in the real world?

they are non exsistant.

My "hopes and dreams" are that my kids grow up to be successful and happy. Beyond that, I really don't give a fuck. Whatever happens, happens.

I'm confident that big government liberalism will prove ITSELF to be a failure.

Way to look like an idiot posting Sweden links in a Switzerland discussion though. Nice touch

 

[Truthmatters]

Hahaah did I really?

I ll have to go look at that one.