N.J. charges 8 private sector merchants with gouging after Sandy

[The Rabbi]

It is a natural thing to try to maximize income out of a product that is limited and cannot be replaced. It is far more moral than the alternative, which is virtually everyone going without.
But I dont expect you to understand economics.

No it isn't natural to be a douche and it is illegal. This is no different than war profiteering.

I disagree.

It's one thing to double the price of food in a shortage just because you have it and people need it. It's another thing to double the price of food because it costs twice as much to get it to those who need it and are willing to pay for it.

See the difference?


Or do you forego your salary when there's a storm?

There's no difference, actually. Sellers respond to increased demand and inability to resupply. Period.
Back in 2009 no one could get .380acp ammunition. We started producing it. We were hampered by shortages of brass and primers but somehow we cranked some out. We sold it for like $40/box. Lots of customers said, I dont need it that badly and didnt buy. Some did need it that badly and did buy. But we were the only shop in town with .380 ammo for sale. For comparison typically it will sell about $18/box.

 

[LibertyLemming]

If the prices are too high nobody will pay. You people are fucking insane. Quit trying to force everyone to think like you do. This used to be the land of the free.

 

[The Rabbi]

If the prices are too high nobody will pay. You people are fucking insane. Quit trying to force everyone to think like you do. This used to be the land of the free.

That would appear to be obvious, that people opt for the best alternative. But in Libland consumers are merely lemmings entranced by Big Greedy Evul Corporations and will shell out whatever is asked, no matter what.

 

[LibertyLemming]

tHERE IS NO SUCH thing as a corporation. They are people with money nothing else. If you called them jackolanterns instead of corporations they would still be people with money.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No. That's why they had people waiting in line every day for hours.

Every day? Or about 4 days, with the odd-even restrictions? There was no supply problem. It was a distribution problem.

What did Louisiana do to gougers after Katrina? As I recall, both Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi prosecuted them. I even recall that Bush started an FTC investigation.

I tend to doubt that you morons complained about the Republicans following the law.

You would be wrong about that. Laws against "gouging," i.e., charging the market price, are always stupid, whether a Republican or a Democrat does it.

Also, a distribution problem is a supply problem.

The term "market price" lacks meaning in the temporary monopolies created during states of large scale emergency.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Only the liberal automatically jumps to the conclusion that the solution to every problem is for government to make some law.

That's not the conclusion we've jumped to. Anti-gouging and anti-hoarding laws are a solution to a very specific problem.

In other words, just what I said. You think because a natural disaster causes prices to increase, the government can wave its magic wand and make prices decrease.

I never said the government had a "magic wand", so no, that's not what I think.

The only "problem" such laws solve is the envy and hatred of people who think they are entitled to other people's property. Invariably, they only make the problem worse.

The nature of a large scale natural disaster justifies government intrusion into prices. In the case of NJ law the businesses aren't required to take any losses and in fact are allowed to gouge the consumer up to 9.9999%. You don't like it - don't live in fuckin' New Jersey.

BTW - you missed this post. http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-with-gouging-after-sandy-7.html#post6372174

 

[The Rabbi]

Every day? Or about 4 days, with the odd-even restrictions? There was no supply problem. It was a distribution problem.

What did Louisiana do to gougers after Katrina? As I recall, both Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi prosecuted them. I even recall that Bush started an FTC investigation.

I tend to doubt that you morons complained about the Republicans following the law.

You would be wrong about that. Laws against "gouging," i.e., charging the market price, are always stupid, whether a Republican or a Democrat does it.

Also, a distribution problem is a supply problem.

The term "market price" lacks meaning in the temporary monopolies created during states of large scale emergency.

A monopoly is a situation with one seller of a good. What monopoly was created by the storm? All the gas stations had similar amounts of product on hand. There were many sellers. Ergo, no monopoly.
You're not good at this, are you?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

You would be wrong about that. Laws against "gouging," i.e., charging the market price, are always stupid, whether a Republican or a Democrat does it.

Also, a distribution problem is a supply problem.

The term "market price" lacks meaning in the temporary monopolies created during states of large scale emergency.

A monopoly is a situation with one seller of a good. What monopoly was created by the storm? All the gas stations had similar amounts of product on hand. There were many sellers. Ergo, no monopoly.
You're not good at this, are you?

If the price gougers had any practical competitors they would not have been able to gouge. The term 'market price' has no practical meaning without meaningful competition.

 

[The Rabbi]

The term "market price" lacks meaning in the temporary monopolies created during states of large scale emergency.

A monopoly is a situation with one seller of a good. What monopoly was created by the storm? All the gas stations had similar amounts of product on hand. There were many sellers. Ergo, no monopoly.
You're not good at this, are you?

If the price gougers had any practical competitors they would not have been able to gouge. The term 'market price' has no practical meaning without meaningful competition.

Wrong. They "gouged" in the sense that they raised their prices higher than others. Which is why they still had gas and many others didnt. That isn't a monopoly in any meaningful sense.
You need to quit while youre behind.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

A monopoly is a situation with one seller of a good. What monopoly was created by the storm? All the gas stations had similar amounts of product on hand. There were many sellers. Ergo, no monopoly.
You're not good at this, are you?

If the price gougers had any practical competitors they would not have been able to gouge. The term 'market price' has no practical meaning without meaningful competition.

Wrong. They "gouged" in the sense that they raised their prices higher than others. Which is why they still had gas and many others didnt. That isn't a monopoly in any meaningful sense.
You need to quit while youre behind.

If they are able to sell gas at a significantly higher price than other gas stations its because of a severe market inefficiency caused by Sandy. That's not a true "market price", its an artificially inflated one.

 

[The Rabbi]

If the price gougers had any practical competitors they would not have been able to gouge. The term 'market price' has no practical meaning without meaningful competition.

Wrong. They "gouged" in the sense that they raised their prices higher than others. Which is why they still had gas and many others didnt. That isn't a monopoly in any meaningful sense.
You need to quit while youre behind.

If they are able to sell gas at a significantly higher price than other gas stations its because of a severe market inefficiency caused by Sandy. That's not a true "market price", its an artificially inflated one.

No, it is a true market price, based on circumstances at that moment. That's what a market is.
You really really need to quit here.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Wrong. They "gouged" in the sense that they raised their prices higher than others. Which is why they still had gas and many others didnt. That isn't a monopoly in any meaningful sense.
You need to quit while youre behind.

If they are able to sell gas at a significantly higher price than other gas stations its because of a severe market inefficiency caused by Sandy. That's not a true "market price", its an artificially inflated one.

No, it is a true market price, based on circumstances at that moment. That's what a market is.
You really really need to quit here.

Sorry, I got my terminology mixed up.

What I meant to say was that during an emergency like Sandy, the market price does not reflect the actual market value.

 

[kidrocks]

What's the difference between those 8 private sector merchants charged with gouging and looters? Not much I'll warrant.

 

[asterism]

If they are able to sell gas at a significantly higher price than other gas stations its because of a severe market inefficiency caused by Sandy. That's not a true "market price", its an artificially inflated one.

No, it is a true market price, based on circumstances at that moment. That's what a market is.
You really really need to quit here.

Sorry, I got my terminology mixed up.

What I meant to say was that during an emergency like Sandy, the market price does not reflect the actual market value.

No, it reflects the actual market value perfectly. Gas is VERY valuable when there isn't much of it around at the moment.

What's so hard about this?

 

[The Rabbi]

If they are able to sell gas at a significantly higher price than other gas stations its because of a severe market inefficiency caused by Sandy. That's not a true "market price", its an artificially inflated one.

No, it is a true market price, based on circumstances at that moment. That's what a market is.
You really really need to quit here.

Sorry, I got my terminology mixed up.

What I meant to say was that during an emergency like Sandy, the market price does not reflect the actual market value.

"Value" is determined by what people are willing to pay for things.
A Market is a system of buyers and sellers trading things.
A market price is what sellers are willing to sell for and buyers are willing to buy for.
Thus there is no difference between "value" and market price.

Your posts are increasingly silly.

 

[boilermaker55]

And if you believe this who do you want to prosecute?

What's the difference between those 8 private sector merchants charged with gouging and looters? Not much I'll warrant.

 

[Ravi]

What's the difference between those 8 private sector merchants charged with gouging and looters? Not much I'll warrant.

Good point.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No, it is a true market price, based on circumstances at that moment. That's what a market is.
You really really need to quit here.

Sorry, I got my terminology mixed up.

What I meant to say was that during an emergency like Sandy, the market price does not reflect the actual market value.

No, it reflects the actual market value perfectly. Gas is VERY valuable when there isn't much of it around at the moment.

What's so hard about this?

Market price does not reflect market value in an inefficient market.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No, it is a true market price, based on circumstances at that moment. That's what a market is.
You really really need to quit here.

Sorry, I got my terminology mixed up.

What I meant to say was that during an emergency like Sandy, the market price does not reflect the actual market value.

"Value" is determined by what people are willing to pay for things.
A Market is a system of buyers and sellers trading things.
A market price is what sellers are willing to sell for and buyers are willing to buy for.
Thus there is no difference between "value" and market price.

Your posts are increasingly silly.

There is no difference between market price and market value only when the market is efficient and the participants are rational.

 

[asterism]

Sorry, I got my terminology mixed up.

What I meant to say was that during an emergency like Sandy, the market price does not reflect the actual market value.

No, it reflects the actual market value perfectly. Gas is VERY valuable when there isn't much of it around at the moment.

What's so hard about this?

Market price does not reflect market value in an inefficient market.

But the market is efficient - it's just a localized and temporary shift in supply.