2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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I posted this in another thread in a response to a question about gun violence and how to solve it, but it is essentially my thoughts on the gun control debate so I thought I would make it my own thread in the Firearm forum...I will add to it as I think about the issue and the debate between the two sides...
Sorry, I'm not letting people get away with just counting and recounting those murdered by bad guys as the only side to the gun debate...
Murders by guns in the U.S. Are about 11,000 per year, lives saved by gun per year, 100,000, and that number is too low but it is the number actually acknowledged by anti gun groups, in particular anti gun researcher hemmenway.
why is that number reported too low...because other studies,put the number upwards of 300,000lives saved per year while on the real far side up,to 2.5 million lives saved,per year. even these numbers are not accurate because if you take the gun grabber number of 100,000 lives saved per year, that doesn't count all defensive gun uses/lives saved because in the majority of events, no shots are fired and no bodies are put on the ground...meaning there is nothing to count for statistical purposes.
also, the 100,000 lives saved doesn't count the lives saved,because in these defensive gun uses a lot of the criminals are captured or killed by the intended victim which means that future, uncounted victims, are also saved from attack...
How can we know this...from stories,like the one where the female college student who was raped 50 feet from the campus police station because even though she had a cocealed carry license, she had to leave her gun off campus the night she was brutally raped because the school was a legally mandated "gun free" zone...her attacker then went on to brutally rape 3 more victims and kill the third...
and by the way...this is the desired outcome that the anti gun people want, it is better that these women be brutally raped and beaten or murderd, than that they have,a gun on their person to stop it from happening...how do I know this...because,if put to the question...would you allow these women to carry a gun knowing what was about to happen to them...would you? the anti-gun people will say,no...it is better that they not have access to that gun that will prevent that attack...so by extension...the preferred outcome for the anti-gun people is that these women are brutally raped,and the one is murdered...because innocent people can't be allowed to have guns....thereby allowing them to be brutally beaten, brutally raped and brutally murdered...
so no more one way street for the gun grabbers...criminals may murder 11,000 people each year...a lot of those other criminals in gang violence...but over 100,000 peoples lives are saved from violent beatings, violent rape, and violent murder because good,people can stop the attacks,because they are,carrying guns on their hips...
what causes gun violence,in democrat controlled cities...generations of children raising children on government welfare, with no adult role models,other than gang members and other criminals, which produces stone cold killers without remorse or compassion or human empathy...all the while the democrats in control of those cities....check out he top most violent cities in the U.S., they are in general controlled by democrat mayors...undermine the police by not employing enough or tying their hands as they try to deal with the criminal drug gangs the government policies have created...
Solution:
As Anethma points out...long prison sentences for criminals/felons who use guns to commit crimes or who are caught carrying guns on their person during any routine searches, and the directive to district attorneys to actually prosecute,these gun crimes and judges directed to give long sentences for gun crimes.
We see this in Chicago...in one shooting at a park where three gang members shot at a crowd of people...they all had prior convictions for violent crimes and at least one had a previous gun arrest but was out on parole at the time of the shooting, for a previous gun crime conviction in which he received 3 years only for the gun crime and was out in 18 months...in another shooting...the killer had another gun arrest..but was given 3 months in a "boot camp" instead of prison for the gun crime
so don't tell me the problem is guns...the problem is bad law enforcement policy decisions that allow violent criminals to keep using guns to commit crimes over and over again in the same small areas of democrat controlled cities...which are then used as a reason to take guns away from law abiding citizens who use them to save over 100,000 lives a year...
and another thing...the mentally ill...they are the smallest of the problem when it comes,to gun violence...the real problem is inner city killing fields created,by democrat welfare and police,policies....but we know why the anti- gun crowd focuses so much on the mentally ill getting guns..because it gives them a powerful tool for getting guns away from those people least likely to use guns for murder...law abiding citizens...because they will use any and all mental health laws to target law abiding citizens. We have seen the precursor to this in Illinois with the medical pot cards used to deny gun permits...even as they don't deny those same people drivers licenses...because more medical pot card holders are more likely to be driving under the influence than they will to use guns to commit murder...but they still use it to deny concealed carry permits but not drivers licenses, don't they...and the use of PTSD to deny military vets the ability to get carry permits....even though these same soldiers would be allowed to carry weapons in the line of duty...but they won't be allowed to carry weapons when they leave the military for their personal protection...
so keeping guns out of the hands of the Colorado theater shooter and the Newton shooter are what we want...two killers who were known to have serious, dangerous mental problems who were still able to get guns, one went through legal background checks that the anti gunners insist will stop crime, while the other simply murdered a legal gun owner to get their guns...but we know that what the anti-gun people,want is another way to keep law abiding people from having and carrying guns...because the anti-gun people will use that power to keep anyone who even talks to a therapist from getting a gun...even if the only reason they talk to a therapist is because they are felling a little down and could use someone to talk to...and then they will have a permanent block on their ability to own or carry a gun to protect themselves from violent criminals...we know the anti-gun strategy and goals and we do not trust them...
Sorry, I'm not letting people get away with just counting and recounting those murdered by bad guys as the only side to the gun debate...
Murders by guns in the U.S. Are about 11,000 per year, lives saved by gun per year, 100,000, and that number is too low but it is the number actually acknowledged by anti gun groups, in particular anti gun researcher hemmenway.
why is that number reported too low...because other studies,put the number upwards of 300,000lives saved per year while on the real far side up,to 2.5 million lives saved,per year. even these numbers are not accurate because if you take the gun grabber number of 100,000 lives saved per year, that doesn't count all defensive gun uses/lives saved because in the majority of events, no shots are fired and no bodies are put on the ground...meaning there is nothing to count for statistical purposes.
also, the 100,000 lives saved doesn't count the lives saved,because in these defensive gun uses a lot of the criminals are captured or killed by the intended victim which means that future, uncounted victims, are also saved from attack...
How can we know this...from stories,like the one where the female college student who was raped 50 feet from the campus police station because even though she had a cocealed carry license, she had to leave her gun off campus the night she was brutally raped because the school was a legally mandated "gun free" zone...her attacker then went on to brutally rape 3 more victims and kill the third...
and by the way...this is the desired outcome that the anti gun people want, it is better that these women be brutally raped and beaten or murderd, than that they have,a gun on their person to stop it from happening...how do I know this...because,if put to the question...would you allow these women to carry a gun knowing what was about to happen to them...would you? the anti-gun people will say,no...it is better that they not have access to that gun that will prevent that attack...so by extension...the preferred outcome for the anti-gun people is that these women are brutally raped,and the one is murdered...because innocent people can't be allowed to have guns....thereby allowing them to be brutally beaten, brutally raped and brutally murdered...
so no more one way street for the gun grabbers...criminals may murder 11,000 people each year...a lot of those other criminals in gang violence...but over 100,000 peoples lives are saved from violent beatings, violent rape, and violent murder because good,people can stop the attacks,because they are,carrying guns on their hips...
what causes gun violence,in democrat controlled cities...generations of children raising children on government welfare, with no adult role models,other than gang members and other criminals, which produces stone cold killers without remorse or compassion or human empathy...all the while the democrats in control of those cities....check out he top most violent cities in the U.S., they are in general controlled by democrat mayors...undermine the police by not employing enough or tying their hands as they try to deal with the criminal drug gangs the government policies have created...
Solution:
As Anethma points out...long prison sentences for criminals/felons who use guns to commit crimes or who are caught carrying guns on their person during any routine searches, and the directive to district attorneys to actually prosecute,these gun crimes and judges directed to give long sentences for gun crimes.
We see this in Chicago...in one shooting at a park where three gang members shot at a crowd of people...they all had prior convictions for violent crimes and at least one had a previous gun arrest but was out on parole at the time of the shooting, for a previous gun crime conviction in which he received 3 years only for the gun crime and was out in 18 months...in another shooting...the killer had another gun arrest..but was given 3 months in a "boot camp" instead of prison for the gun crime
so don't tell me the problem is guns...the problem is bad law enforcement policy decisions that allow violent criminals to keep using guns to commit crimes over and over again in the same small areas of democrat controlled cities...which are then used as a reason to take guns away from law abiding citizens who use them to save over 100,000 lives a year...
and another thing...the mentally ill...they are the smallest of the problem when it comes,to gun violence...the real problem is inner city killing fields created,by democrat welfare and police,policies....but we know why the anti- gun crowd focuses so much on the mentally ill getting guns..because it gives them a powerful tool for getting guns away from those people least likely to use guns for murder...law abiding citizens...because they will use any and all mental health laws to target law abiding citizens. We have seen the precursor to this in Illinois with the medical pot cards used to deny gun permits...even as they don't deny those same people drivers licenses...because more medical pot card holders are more likely to be driving under the influence than they will to use guns to commit murder...but they still use it to deny concealed carry permits but not drivers licenses, don't they...and the use of PTSD to deny military vets the ability to get carry permits....even though these same soldiers would be allowed to carry weapons in the line of duty...but they won't be allowed to carry weapons when they leave the military for their personal protection...
so keeping guns out of the hands of the Colorado theater shooter and the Newton shooter are what we want...two killers who were known to have serious, dangerous mental problems who were still able to get guns, one went through legal background checks that the anti gunners insist will stop crime, while the other simply murdered a legal gun owner to get their guns...but we know that what the anti-gun people,want is another way to keep law abiding people from having and carrying guns...because the anti-gun people will use that power to keep anyone who even talks to a therapist from getting a gun...even if the only reason they talk to a therapist is because they are felling a little down and could use someone to talk to...and then they will have a permanent block on their ability to own or carry a gun to protect themselves from violent criminals...we know the anti-gun strategy and goals and we do not trust them...
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