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Well, not everyone has time to read such lengthy posts, for one, thing and again, I don't read things that contradict what I KNOW to be true. I have done my research and I am happy with where I am, more or less (no one is totally happy in this Christ-forsaken world, but I am satisfied with my beliefs, so called).
So why don't you just tell me at this time what the true church is. Oh, maybe you did. You say it is "all believers in Christ"
That is only true as far as it goes. Jesus established a Church and it behooves all alleged Christians to find out which Church in the world is the one He founded. You can say that Church does not exist but again, history refutes that. Jesus said His Church would NOT fail.
The early Church fathers, some of whom knew the Apostles, were Catholic. They speak of the Eucharist, of Transubstantiation, the Virgin conception and perpetual virginity of Mary and I coul go on all day
There are MANY things like this that tell us that church is the counterfeit which rose up alongside the true Church of God and has deceived hundreds of millionsNot true.
Matthew 23:9
9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
What are the traditions of the Jerusalem Church?Catholic Church doesn't follow the traditions of the Jerusalem Church
Was the 1st century Church Sabbath keeping or Sunday keeping?What are the traditions of the Jerusalem Church?
There is no need to go on. While I agree with what you presented, I do not agree with your conclusions on what you presented.I could go on, but I won't.
Yes. It's just a simple fact that nothing that includes imperfect people deciding what the rules an policy will be is not going to be without error or imperfections. That does not mean that the imperfect is without value though."So my advice to anyone seeking the 'one true Church' is that it doesn't exist."
Well it does exist, just not in the exclusive manner that is being bandied about in here.
Biblical Truth The Light of God’s Word | Topic | New Catechism Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994) |
The Bible only is the Standard for Truth “....the scripture cannot be broken.” John. 10:35 “Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.” John. 17:17 “That ye might learn in us not to think...above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.” 1 Corinthians 4:6 “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” Proverbs. 30:6 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17 “Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered...” Mark. 7:13 | The Basis of Truth | Truth is based on Scripture, Tradition, and the Pope “Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other.” Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) Para 80 And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. CCC Para 81 “As a result the [Roman Catholic] Church...does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.” CCC Para 82 “The Supreme Pontiff, in virtue of his office, possesses infallible teaching authority when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful...he proclaims with a definitive act that a doctrine of faith or morals is to be held as such.” CCC Para 891 |
Salvation is by Grace Alone Through Faith “Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” Romans 3:24 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: It is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8, 9 “For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.” Rom 5:17 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us...” Titus 3:5-6 “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Galatians 2:21 | Salvation by Grace Alone | For Salvation Grace becomes merely a help and is given through the sacraments of the Church “Grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons. It introduces us into the intimacy of the Trinitarian life.” CCC Para2021 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. ’Sacramental grace’ is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. CCC Para1129 “One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience.” CCC Para 1493 |
Faith is the Gift of God and comes by the Word of God “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:31 “For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.” Philippians 1:29 “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” Romans 10:17 | Faith is God-given and sustained | Faith comes through the Mother Church “It is the Church that believes first, and so bears, nourishes and sustains my faith.” CCC Para 168 “Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother:...” Para 169 “Believing” is an ecclesial act. The Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports and nourishes our faith. The Church is the mother of all believers. ‘No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother’” CCC Para 181 |
Christ’s Sacrifice was His alone and once offered “...Jesus said, ‘It is finished:...’” John. 19:30 “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God” Hebrews 10:12 “...when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;” Hebrews. 1:3 | Christ’s Atonement Sufficient Finished Sacrifice | Christ’s Sacrifice continues, and is also of the Church In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.” CCC Para 1367 “The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the [Roman Catholic] Church. The Church which is the Body of Christ participates in the offering of her Head. With him, she herself is offered whole and entire.” CCC Para 1368 |
God is the Only All Holy One and the Only Source of Holiness “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.” Isaiah. 6:3 “Who shall not fear Thee, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? For Thou only art Holy: for all nations shall come and worship before Thee...” Revelation. 15: 4 “There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside Thee: neither is there any rock like our God.” 1 Samuel.2:2 “I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” Isaiah 42:8 | God, the Only All Holy One | Mary is also the All-Holy One and the Source of Holiness “By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All Holy One.” CCC Para 2677 “From the [Roman Catholic] Church he learns the example of holiness and recognizes its model and source in the all-holy Virgin Mary....” CCC Para 2030 “The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God ‘the All-Holy’ (Panagia), and celebrate her as ‘free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature’” CCC Para 493 |
In Salvation the Lord Jesus Christ Alone Mediates “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.” 1Timothy. 2:5 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name [Jesus Christ] under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12 | One Mediator | In Salvation “Mary” Also Mediates “Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the [Roman Catholic] Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix.” CCC Para 969 |
God Hates Idolatry “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything...Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.” Exodus. 20:4-5 “And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even Ten Commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the Lord spake...Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure....” Dt. 4:13, 15-16 “Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen” 1 John. 5:21 | Idolatry | The Roman Catholic Church Rationalizes Idolatry “The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype, and whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.” CCC Para 2132 “Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea (787) justified...the veneration of icons - of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new ‘economy’ of images.” CCC Para 2131 |
This Pagan Practice is Forbidden in the Bible “There shall not be found among you any one... that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer, [one who calls up the dead].” Deut. 18:10-11 “And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits [divination; contacting the dead], and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I Am the Lord your God.” Leviticus. 20:6-7 | Communion with the Dead | This Practice is Recommended by Rome “Communion with the dead. In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead...Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping “them, bur also of making their intercession for us effective.” CCC Para 958 “The witnesses who have preceded us into the kingdom, especially those whom the Church recognizes as saints, share in the living tradition of prayer...Their intercession is their most exalted service...We can and should ask them to intercede for us and for the whole world.” CCC Para 2683 |
i bet you cannot refute 1 thing in his O.P.The RCC was not loved at all by the world until the 60s when evil doers infiltrated the Church in order to destroy it. I have to say Satan and Co. have done a good job, using the word good lightly of course. And yet many Catholics are not fooled. They know Francis "aint right, jus aint right" Even people o/side the RCC see this also, the ones who follow Christ their own way. A blind person can see that Francis is just... words fail.
The RCC used to be beautiful and reverent (local parishes still are). Now we have just the opposite (in the Vatican). Many Catholics left when the reverence departed (or so they thought). I left for a brief time. Well, when I was young I left for a long time (disaster ensued, but I won;t digress). But I also left for a very brief time a couple years ago when I got fed up with... what I was learning about this infiltration debacle. The Church now is run by anti-Christs, but, as is often the case, the PEOPLE did not fall like their leaders did (do). Many broke away from the Vatican sect to form groups like SSPX and others. And yet, Jesus did promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church, so really, leaving the Church is not an option. How can we fix it if we are not there? And more importantly, the Real Presence of Christ is still in His Church as He promised it would be ("I will never leave you nor forsake you"). Just because a huge crocodile enters your home, threatening everyone, doesn't mean your home is worthless and evil..
Yes. It's just a simple fact that nothing that includes imperfect people deciding what the rules an policy will be is not going to be without error or imperfections. That does not mean that the imperfect is without value though.
Yes.Yep. The Bible was written and translated by imperfect men.
To compound this it is listened to and studied by equally imperfect people!
You miss God's involvement in HIS written WordYep. The Bible was written and translated by imperfect men.
You miss God's involvement in HIS written Word
Jesus and the apostles stupidly neglected to teach us a plethora of doctrines but, fortunately, the Catholic Church rectified their stupid mistakes by providing us with all of the doctrines that they ignorantly forgot to share.God wouldn't have made so many mistakes about geography.
You mean besides the Church isn't the pope. The Church is the people. We - the members of the Church - are the body of Christ.i bet you cannot refute 1 thing in his O.P.
But luckily we have you to set us straight.Jesus and the apostles stupidly neglected to teach us a plethora of doctrines but, fortunately, the Catholic Church rectified their stupid mistakes by providing us with all of the doctrines that they ignorantly forgot to share.
The Pope runs around saying it does not really matter what you do, have an abortion, be a gender bender, whatever you want to do.That's what they all say. Everyone believes something. There is no such thing, really, as non-denom. Some fundamentalist Christians are the most "dogmatic" you'll ever find. They are certainly dogmatic AGAINST Catholicism!
But Jesus said there'd be days like this: "You will be hated by all---" He said of His followers. And everyone knows which "denom," if you will, of Christian is hated the most. Well, some of us do anyway. We've been the object of that hate for... about 5 centuries
Ya gotta remember that Catholics believe that the Pope and their catechism supersedes anything in the Bible. You can quote scripture all day and it's meaningless to them.So, then people leave the Catholic church and they are going to hell?
That's an excellent point. If their pope thinks nothing really matters, then they can't say salvation comes only through their organization, which is true btwThe Pope runs around saying it does not really matter what you do, have an abortion, be a gender bender, whatever you want to do.
So, then people leave the Catholic church and they are going to hell?
Really?
Nothing matters anymore but climate change and not building walls apparently.
The Church as survived worse Popes. First, we should try to see Pope Francis' perspective. Could it be he is thinking along the lines of, "Jesus ate with prostitutes and tax collectors, therefore I should eat with the LGBTQ crowd and those who support abortions?The Pope runs around saying it does not really matter what you do, have an abortion, be a gender bender, whatever you want to do.
So, then people leave the Catholic church and they are going to hell?
Really?
Nothing matters anymore but climate change and not building walls apparently.
