Muslim youths set fire to a church filled with worshipers

[Kalam]

I'm sorry but your beautiful religion has some real problems that are obvious.
Its not personal .
You can grow up and become a better person

One of us has an unhealthy obsession with a way of life that he does not understand, and it is not me. I don't think I'll be taking any advice from you as far as being a "better person" is concerned, nitwit. If you'd like to address the arguments that I made rather than copying and pasting a slew of unsourced garbage, feel free to do so - I'm interested in your arguments, not those of whoever authored the nonsense you posted.

The Bible is a disgusting and barbaric perversion of the word of Allah (SWT), yet you have the gall to attempt to insult Islam?

Yeah what ever
Anyone interested can figure Islam out in about 5 minutes.It isn't a mystery .

And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men -- they have hearts wherewith they understand not, and they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not. They are as cattle; nay, they are more astray. These are heedless ones. - 7:179​

No person can understand Islam until he or she has lived as a true believer.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

What you fail to understand Mr kalam is I would do anything for you to be right m that fact is you never are.This is a tragedy

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

One of us has an unhealthy obsession with a way of life that he does not understand, and it is not me. I don't think I'll be taking any advice from you as far as being a "better person" is concerned, nitwit. If you'd like to address the arguments that I made rather than copying and pasting a slew of unsourced garbage, feel free to do so - I'm interested in your arguments, not those of whoever authored the nonsense you posted.

The Bible is a disgusting and barbaric perversion of the word of Allah (SWT), yet you have the gall to attempt to insult Islam?

Yeah what ever
Anyone interested can figure Islam out in about 5 minutes.It isn't a mystery .

And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the men -- they have hearts wherewith they understand not, and they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not. They are as cattle; nay, they are more astray. These are heedless ones. - 7:179​

No person can understand Islam until he or she has lived as a true believer.

Just not going to put them on

 

[Kalam]

What you fail to understand Mr kalam is I would do anything for you to be right m that fact is you never are.This is a tragedy

That you believe you're the least bit qualified to determine what is and isn't "right" concerning Islam is yet another testament to your delusion. The unabashed arrogance and presumptuousness that so often accompany kufr have manifested themselves in you, slave of ignorance, to such an extent that you consider your knowledge of Islam comparable to mine.

You can read blog posts about it, whine about it on message boards, and poison the minds of your children with kufr, but unless you experience something miraculous, Islam will never be anything more to you than an unhealthy obsession. For me, it's a way of life. Good day.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

And you are the final word of what is and what is not Islam ?

 

[Kalam]

And you are the final word of what is and what is not Islam ?

That is a distinction reserved for Allah (SWT). I do, however, consider myself and every true believer more fit to interpret His will than any kafir.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Care to list those kafir?

 

[Kalam]

Every non-believer in the world? No, not really.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

How about this guy

His full name is Abu Al-Fida, 'Imad Ad-Din Isma'il bin 'Umar bin Kathir Al-Qurashi Al-Busrawi. He was born in 1301 in Busra, Syria (hence Al-Busrawi). He was taught by Ibn Taymiyya in Damascus, Syria and Abu al-Hajjaj Al-Mizzi, (d. 1373), Fiqh with Ibn Al Firkah, Hadith with ‘Isa bin Al-Mutim, Ahmed bin Abi-Talib (Ibn Ash-Shahnah) (died in 730AH), Ibn Al-Hajjar (died in 730AH), the Hadith narrator of Ash-Sham (modern day Syria and surrounding areas), Baha Ad-Din Al-Qasim bin Muzaffar bin ‘Asakir (died in 723AH), Ibn Ash-Shirazi, Ishaq bin Yahya Al-Ammuddi, aka ;Afif Ad-Din, the Zahriyyah Shaykh (died in 725AH), and Muhammad bin Zarrad.[1][dead link]
[edit]Official positions

Upon completion of his studies he obtained his first official appointment in 1341, when he joined an inquisitorial commission formed to determine certain questions of heresy. Thereafter he received various semi-official appointments, culminating in June/July 1366 with a professorial position at the Great Mosque of Damascus.
[edit]Scholastic achievements

Ibn Kathir wrote a famous commentary on the Qur'an named Tafsir ibn Kathir which linked certain Hadith, or sayings of Muhammad, and sayings of the sahaba to verses of the Qur'an, in explanation. Tafsir Ibn Kathir is famous all over the Muslim world and among Muslims in the Western world, is one of the most widely used explanations of the Qu'ran today.
Ibn Kathir was renowned for his great memory regarding the sayings of Muhammad and the entire Qur'an. Ibn Kathir is known as a qadi, a master scholar of history, and a mufassir (Qur'an commentator). Ibn Kathir saw himself as a Shafi'i scholar. This is indicated by two of his books, one of which was Tabaqaat ah-Shafai'ah, or The Categories of the Followers of Imam Shafi.
[edit]Later life an

 

[Gatekeeper]

Muslim teens been doing this for a long time. When in Paris visiting friends, in 2005, they warned us back then not to wear religious medals or anything that says your a Christian for fear of getting your throat cut. They continued to cause unrest, in the fall they were calling in fire alarms, then firing upon the firemen till they stopped responding to those areas. Didn't notice the problem further south in Vienne Province,Poitiers area, but they were and who knows today in 2010, causing a lot of problems using violence. Their goals apparently are to rid the world of all non-Muslims,the unfortunante death of a Muslim teen in this instance triggered this violence.


FOXNews.com - Paris Rioters Set Woman Afire as Violence Spreads - U.S. & World

continued:
Rioting in Paris after Muslim Youths Killed

Since I am not a student of Islam or the Quran, my interpretations could have flaws, if so, I am SURE someone, will enlighten me.

Don't blame all Muslims for the violence of a few. However Islam and it's 'submission to the will of Allah' and the distorted interpretations seeks total domination of every person on the planet. Distortions in biblical writings is in every belief and the fact that over the eons the meanings of words have changed significantly and those who re-interpret those words may have erred themselves.

So what do we, as non-Muslims, do to address this Islamic violence? The to Ideology of Islam or the Individual Muslim, of which the majority are non-violent?

If both truly believe in every Sura in the Quran, some of which call for the deaths of all non-Muslims, then what? Anyone have and further ideas on living in peace with those that would dominate the world?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

As long as some muslims are killing people ,
the rest of the muslims are absolved of the obligation.
Third The ruling on physical jihad against the disbelievers is that this is an obligation on the community as a whole (fard kafayah).


Ibn Qudamah said: “Jihad is an obligation upon the community; if some people undertake it, the rest are relieved of the obligation.”


What fard kafayah means is that if it is not undertaken by enough people, then all the people are guilty of sin, but if enough people undertake it, the rest will be relieved of blame. Initially the command is addressed to all of them, as in the case of an individual obligation (fard ‘ayn), but then in the case of fard kafayah the obligation is dropped if enough of the people undertake to do it, unlike the case with fard ‘ayn where the obligation is not dropped if someone else does it. Jihad is a fard kafayah according to the majority of scholars.” (Al-Mughni, 9/163)



Read more: Jihad: Not Only Fighting - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

 

[Kalam]

How about this guy

How about him?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

How about this guy

How about him?

He a kafir or a true believer?

 

[Kalam]

How about this guy

How about him?

He a kafir or a true believer?

What difference does it make to you?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

How about him?

He a kafir or a true believer?

What difference does it make to you?

No person can understand Islam until he or she has lived as a true believer.

Since we are not able to understand Islam or the Quran we will have to use the tools left at our disposal .

Ibn Kathir wrote a famous commentary on the Qur'an named Tafsir ibn Kathir which linked certain Hadith, or sayings of Muhammad, and sayings of the sahaba to verses of the Qur'an, in explanation. Tafsir Ibn Kathir is famous all over the Muslim world and among Muslims in the Western world, is one of the most widely used explanations of the Qu'ran today.

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[Charles Stucker]

It is truly unfair to expect Islam to be either peaceful or intelligent.
Islam's initial spread was due primarily to military conquest; violence in the name of 'Allah' so the continued existence of violence in the religion is quite understandable; there is no fundamental peaceful element on which to fall back.
The ignorance is obvious when you consider the main miracle of Islam "Oh My Allah, an Arab wrote a Book, must be a miracle."

 

[Jay Canuck]

maybe line these kids up and shoot them with some Jesus guns?

 

[Kalam]

Since we are not able to understand Islam or the Quran we will have to use the tools left at our disposal.

Your implication that you can "understand Islam" by studying explanations written by Muslims is incorrect. Personal experience of Islam and the Divine is as important to understanding the religion as familiarity with scripture and tradition.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Yeah thats why n o effort has been made to explain Islamic scripture in the past or now.

tafsir
Science of explanation and interpretation of the Qur'an. It arose after the death of Muhammad to deal with ambiguity, variant readings, defective texts, and apparent contradictions in the scripture. Starting from mere personal speculation, tafsir developed into a system of systematic exegesis of the Qur'an's text, proceeding verse by verse and sometimes word by word. Early efforts relied on the Hadith, later giving rise to a more dogmatic type of tafsir. The most comprehensive work was compiled by the scholar al-Tabari. Some Muslim modernists have employed tafsir as a vehicle for reformist ideas.


The approaches of tafsir
The standard approach taken by any major Tafsir (like at-Tabari and Ibn Kathir) is very conservative for the following reasons

The Quran states that it is made easy to understand (V11:1, V41:3, V41:44, V54:17, V54:22, V54:32, V54:40 and in many other places) so no one is allowed to divert its literal meaning.
Prophet Muhammad said:
وقال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وسل&#1605: من قال في القرآن برأيه فأصاب فقد أخطأ (أي أخطأ في فعله بقيله فيه برأيه وإن وافق قيله ذلك عين الصوا&#1576 translation: the one who interprets Quran from his own point of view and he was right then he erred. Err here refers to the act of trying to interpret Quran the wrong way, which means no guessing should be made, trying to know the meaning should only be based on authentic sources and certain reasoning.

Tafsir: Definition from Answers.com

 

[Kalam]

Yeah thats why n o effort has been made to explain Islamic scripture in the past or now.

What the hell are you talking about?