Muslim youths set fire to a church filled with worshipers

[Mr.Fitnah]

This is what you were asked to prove. Please demonstrate that Islamic countries rank above countries like Thailand, Japan, and the Philippines as far as human trafficking is concerned.

Perhaps my post wasn't clear enough.

It is an issue of prevention, prosecution , and education the Islamic states are not all that interested.
That has been demonstrated.

 

[Kalam]

This is what you were asked to prove. Please demonstrate that Islamic countries rank above countries like Thailand, Japan, and the Philippines as far as human trafficking is concerned.

Perhaps my post wasn't clear enough.

It is an issue of prevention, prosecution , and education the Islamic states are not all that interested.
That has been demonstrated.

Adherence to the TVPA does not equate to having no human trafficking problem. As far as I know, Japan remains the top destination for trafficked persons in Asia, human trafficking is more prevalent in Thailand than in any other country, and the Philippines has tens of thousands of underage prostitutes in its urban brothels, if not more. Demonstrating that Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have made lackluster attempts to increase awareness of trafficking does nothing in the way of proving your original assertion, which was that "Islamic nations still practice slavery everywhere." Thank you for trying.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Perhaps my post wasn't clear enough.

It is an issue of prevention, prosecution , and education the Islamic states are not all that interested.
That has been demonstrated.

Adherence to the TVPA does not equate to having no human trafficking problem. As far as I know, Japan remains the top destination for trafficked persons in Asia, human trafficking is more prevalent in Thailand than in any other country, and the Philippines has tens of thousands of underage prostitutes in its urban brothels, if not more. Demonstrating that Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have made lackluster attempts to increase awareness of trafficking does nothing in the way of proving your original assertion, which was that "Islamic nations still practice slavery everywhere." Thank you for trying.

So it is your contention Islamic countries are not involved in human trafficking?
Or there are no Islamic countries ? whats your exists strategy?
Islamic states do little to prevent prosecute human trafficking.
Slavery is endorsed in the Quran.

 

[uscitizen]

Nigeria: Religious Violence Kills 27

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 18, 2010
Angry Muslim youths set fire to a church filled with worshipers, starting a riot that killed at least 27 people and wounded more than 300 in Jos, in northern Nigeria, officials said Monday. Sani Mudi, a spokesman for the local imam, said 22 people died in fighting between Christians and Muslims after rioters set fire to a Catholic church on Sunday. Five others died Monday from their wounds. More than 300 people were killed in inter-religious violence in Jos in 2008.

I really do not care much. I am certainly not going to get outraged over this.
I am more concerned about getting my own country fixed.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Nigeria: Religious Violence Kills 27

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 18, 2010
Angry Muslim youths set fire to a church filled with worshipers, starting a riot that killed at least 27 people and wounded more than 300 in Jos, in northern Nigeria, officials said Monday. Sani Mudi, a spokesman for the local imam, said 22 people died in fighting between Christians and Muslims after rioters set fire to a Catholic church on Sunday. Five others died Monday from their wounds. More than 300 people were killed in inter-religious violence in Jos in 2008.

I really do not care much. I am certainly not going to get outraged over this.
I am more concerned about getting my own country fixed.

My BIL is there now.

 

[uscitizen]

Nigeria: Religious Violence Kills 27

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 18, 2010
Angry Muslim youths set fire to a church filled with worshipers, starting a riot that killed at least 27 people and wounded more than 300 in Jos, in northern Nigeria, officials said Monday. Sani Mudi, a spokesman for the local imam, said 22 people died in fighting between Christians and Muslims after rioters set fire to a Catholic church on Sunday. Five others died Monday from their wounds. More than 300 people were killed in inter-religious violence in Jos in 2008.

I really do not care much. I am certainly not going to get outraged over this.
I am more concerned about getting my own country fixed.

My BIL is there now.

You have my concern and sympathy then.
And the best of wishes to your BIL.

But I will not change my attitude about chruches and violence in Nigeria.
btw do you think that US corporations are contributing to Nigeria's problems?
Primarially oil corps I think.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Having watched that states decline for some time it is hard to tell.
I'm certain Islam is not the answer.

 

[uscitizen]

Having watched that states decline for some time it is hard to tell.
I'm certain Islam is not the answer.

any religion that involves violence is not the answer anywhere.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Bernard Lewis. Race and Slavery in the Middle East

Oxford Univ Press 1994.
Chpt. 1 Slavery

In 1842 the British Consul General in Morocco, as part of his government's worldwide endeavor to bring about the abolition of slavery or at least the curtailment of the slave trade, made representations to the sultan of that country asking him what measures, if any, he had taken to accomplish this desirable objective. The sultan replied, in a letter expressing evident astonishment, that "the traffic in slaves is a matter on which all sects and nations have agreed from the time of the sons of Adam . . . up to this day." The sultan continued that he was "not aware of its being prohibited by the laws of any sect, and no one need ask this question, the same being manifest to both high and low and requires no more demonstration than the light of day.''
The sultan was only slightly out of date concerning the enactment of laws to abolish or limit the slave trade, and he was sadly right in his general historic perspective. The institution of slavery had indeed been practiced from time immemorial. It existed in all the ancient civilizations of Asia, Africa, Europe, and pre-Columbian America. It had been accepted and even endorsed by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, as well as other religions of the world.

In the ancient Middle East, as elsewhere, slavery is attested from the very earliest written records, among the Sumerians, the Babylonians, the Egyptians, and other ancient peoples. The earliest slaves, it would seem, were captives taken in warfare. Their numbers were augmented from other sources of supply. In pre-classical antiquity, most slaves appear to have been the property of kings, priests, and temples, and only a relatively small proportion were in private possession. They were employed to till the fields and tend the flocks of their royal and priestly masters but otherwise seem to have played little role in economic production, which was mostly left to small farmers, tenants, and sharccroppers and to artisans and journeymen. The slave population was also recruited by the sale, abandonment, or kidnapping of small children. Free persons could sell themselves or, more frequently, their offspring into slavery. They could be enslaved for insolvency, as could be the persons offered by them as pledges. In some systems, notably that of Rome, free persons could also be enslaved for a variety of offenses against the law.

Both the Old and New Testaments recognize and accept the institution of slavery. Both from time to time insist on the basic humanity of the slave, and the consequent need to treat him humanely. The Jews are frequently reminded, in both Bible and Talmud, that they too were slaves in Egypt and should therefore treat their slaves decently. Psalm 123, which compares the worshipper's appeal to God for mercy with the slave's appeal to his master, is cited to enjoin slaveowners to treat their slaves with compassion. A verse in the book of Job has even been interpreted as an argument against slavery as such: "Did not He that made me in the womb make him [the slave]? And did not One fashion us both?" (Job 31:15). This probably means no more, however, than that the slave is a fellow human being and not a mere chattel. The same is true of the much-quoted passage in the New Testament, that "there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." These and similar verses were not understood to mean that ethnic, social, and gender differences were unimportant or should be abolished, only that they conferred no religious privilege. From many allusions, it is clear that slavery is accepted in the New Testament as a fact of life. Some passages in the Pauline Epistles even endorse it. Thus in the Epistle to Philemon, a runaway slave is returned to his master; in Ephesians 6, the duty owed by a slave to his master is compared with the duty owed by a child to his parent, and the slave is enjoined "to be obedient to them that are your masters, according to the flesh, in fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ." Parents and masters are likewise enjoined to show consideration for their children and slaves. All humans, of the true faith, were equal in the eyes of God and in the afterlife but not necessarily in the laws of man and in this world. Those not of the true faith -- whichever it was -- were in another, and in most respects an inferior, category. In this respect, the Greek perception of the barbarian and the Judeo-Christian-lslamic perception of the unbeliever coincide.

MOre

Lewis. Race and Slavery in the Middle East

 

[uscitizen]

I said any religion.

 

[Kalam]

So it is your contention Islamic countries are not involved in human trafficking?
Or there are no Islamic countries ? whats your exists strategy?

My contention is that "Islamic countries" are far from being the worst offenders, yet you chose to single Islam out once again because you're an imbecilic douchebag.

Islamic states do little to prevent prosecute human trafficking.

And there you go again.

Slavery is endorsed in the Quran.

Yet mechanisms were put in place to lead to its eventual abolition.

And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste, until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And those of your slaves who ask for a writing (of freedom), give them the writing, if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And compel not your slave-girls to prostitution when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail goods of this world’s life. And whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. - 24:33​

Narrated Al-Ma'rur: At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them to do things beyond their capacity and if you do so, then help them.' " - Sahih Bukhari, Belief, no. 29

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: 1. One who makes a covenant in My Name, but he proves treacherous. 2. One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price, 3. And one who employs a laborer and gets the full work done by him but does not pay him his wages.' " - Sahih Bukhari, Sales and Trade, no. 430​

Let us look at how the issue is handled in the Bible.

Islam warns of punishment in the hereafter for "one who sells a free person." The Bible allows men to sell their daughters as slaves:

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. - Exodus 21:7-8 (KJV)​

Islam taught Muslims that their slaves were their brothers. The Bible allows masters to beat their slaves as much as they'd like so long as they don't kill them:

And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money. - Exodus 21:20-21 (KJV)
​

Surely, the Biblical "Jesus" denounced these barbaric practices. Oh, wait:

The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. - Luke 12:46-48 (KJV)
​

 

[Smartt33]

As I've said, they've always managed to find some kind of "Christian" biblical passage to excuse their behavior....

Christians used Bible passages to back up their use of slavery here in N. America for 400 years.

I don't know of a single Christian who does that.

Can you give some examples please?

Slavery was not a "Christian behavior" It was happening, and some Christians participated.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

There is no mechanism in the quran to end slavery.
33:50
23:5
70:30

BUKHARI'S HADITH AND SLAVERY

There are hundreds of Hadith that deal with slavery. Whole chapters of Hadith are dedicated to dealing with the taxation, treatment, sale, and jurisprudence of slaves. In addition to this, numerous Hadith mention slaves, and their relation to their Muslim masters. Here is a selection of Hadith on slaves: [all Hadith are from Sahih Bukhari, unless noted.]


Vol. 7-#137 Narrated Abu al-Khudri: "We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's messenger about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.""

Here, Muslims had taken female slaves, and had sex with them. Muhammad approved of this. He only admonished them not to practice coitus interruptus.


Vol. 5-#459 [This Hadith is similar to the above. However, additional details are added]. Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: "I entered the mosque and saw Abu Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu said, "We went out with Allah's messenger for the Ghazwa (attack upon) Banu Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus we said "How can we do coitus interruptus without asking Allah's messenger while he is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.""


Here, the Muslims attacked the Banu Mustaliq, and took slaves. The female slaves were distributed as booty to the Muslim soldiers. Being away from home, the soldiers became horny, and want to have sexual relations with the newly captured female slaves. They went to Muhammad and asked about coitus interruptus. He told them not to practice that, but to complete the sexual act with the slaves. Related Hadith show that they didn't want to get the women pregnant because they wanted to be able to sell them later on. Under Islamic law they were not allowed to sell pregnant female slaves.

In effect, Muhammad okayed the rape of female prisoners.


Vol. 3-#765

Narrated Kuraib: the freed slave of Ibn 'Abbas, that Maimuna bint Al-Harith told him that she manumitted a slave-girl without taking the permission of the Prophet. On the day when it was her turn to be with the Prophet, she said, "Do you know, O Allah's Apostle, that I have manumitted my slave-girl?" He said, "Have you really?" She replied in the affirmative. He said, "You would have got more reward if you had given her (i.e. the slave-girl) to one of your maternal uncles."


Here a woman frees a slave girl, but Muhammad says that she would have gotten more (heavenly) reward if she had given the slave one of her uncles, thus keeping the slave in slavery.


Vol. 7-#734 "....At the door of the [Muhammad's] room there was a slave to whom I went and said, "Ask the permission for me to enter".....

This is a long Hadith, and the quote reveals that Muhammad has slaves working in his house.


Vol. 7-#344 Narrated Anas: "Allah's messenger went to the house of his slave tailor, and he was offered a dish of gourd of which he started eating. I have loved to eat gourd since I saw Allah's messenger eating it."

This Hadith shows that another one of Muhammad's slaves was a tailor. #346 gives additional details.


Vol. 5-#541 Narrated Abu Huraira: When we conquered Khaibar, we gained neither gold nor silver as booty, but we gained cows, camels, goods and gardens. Then we departed with Allah's apostle to the valley of Al-Qira, and at that time Allah's messenger had a slave called Midam who had been presented to him by one of Banu Ad-Dibbab. While the slave was dismounting the saddle of Allah's messenger an arrow the thrower of which was unknown, came and hit him.....

This Hadith shows that Muhammad held a slave, who was struck with an arrow.


Vol. 5-#637 Narrated Buraida: The prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus ([one fifth] of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes" He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus."

The note for this Hadith says "Buraida hated Ali because he had taken a slave girl form the booty and considered that as something not good."

Here Ali took a newly captured slave girl, and had sex with her. When Muhammad was told about it, he approved of it. Note that slaves were considered as booty, and as a man’s property, they can use the female slave for sex, i.e., rape them.



Vol. 5-#512 Narrated Anas: ".....The prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives...."

This Hadith details the attack on the Jews of Khaibar. Again, many of the women and children were taken and made into slaves.


Vol. 5-Chapter 67 Narrated Ibn Ishaq: The Ghazwa (attack upon) Uyaina bin Hisn waged against Banu Al-Anbar, a branch of Banu Tamim. The prophet sent Uyaina to raid them. He raided them and killed some of them and took some others as captives.

Here, Muhammad sent out his men to attack another tribe. The killed some of them and took others as captives. Once again, the Muslims attacked a neighboring tribe.


Vol. 5-#182 Narrated Aisha: "Abu Bakr had a slave who used to give him some of his earnings.

Vol. 5-#50 Narrated Amr Maimun: "....The slave of Al-Mughira..."
[another Muslim who owned the slave that killed Umar.]

....Al-Abbas had the greatest number of slaves....
[Al-Abbas, the future Muslim leader had many slaves].


Vol. 9-#462 Narrated Aisha: "...Furthermore you may ask the slave girl who will tell you the truth". So the prophet asked Barira (my slave girl)...

Aisha had her own slave.


Also, volume 7-#s 845, 341, 352, 371, 410, 413, 654, ch. 22, ch. 23, and
volume 1-#s 29, 439, 661,
volume 9-#s ch. 23, ch. 32, #293, 296, 277, 100, 80.

All these Hadith detail that many other Muslims owned slaves.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MUHAMMAD, ABU DAWUD'S HADITH, AND SLAVERY


Abu Dawud, vol. 2, chapter 597 - "On a Man who Beats His Slave While he is in the Sacred State (wearing Ihram)."

#1814- "(Abu Bakr) began to beat him (Bakr's slave) while the apostle of Allah was smiling and saying: "Look at this man who is in the sacred state, what is he doing?" [The note for this Hadith says "Abu Bakr beat his slave to teach him sense of responsibility."]

Abu Dawud, vol. 2, chapter 683 - "On the Marriage of a Slave without the Permission of His Masters"

#2074- "Ibn Umar reported the prophet as saying: "If a slave marries without the permission of his master, his marriage is null and void."


Abu Dawud, vol. 2, chapter 1317 - "Contractual Obligation of a Slave."

#3499, 3500- "The contractual obligation of a slave is three days. If he finds defect in the slave within three days, he may return it without any evidence; if he finds a defect after three days, he will be required to produce evidence that the slave had the defect when he brought it."




MUHAMMAD, THE MUWATTA OF IMAM MALIK, AND SLAVERY

The chapters mentioned below show just how intrinsic slavery was during Muhammad's life, and the lives of the Caliphs. The Muwatta is a book of Islamic jurisprudence. It is full of regulations on dealing with slaves. Slaves were used throughout the Islamic world. Judging from the amount of Hadith here, it is safe to assume that many Muslims owned slaves.


Chapter 368 - "Who takes the Property of a Slave When He is Freed"

Chapter 371 - "Slaves who cannot be set Free in the Obligatory Freeing of a Slave"

Chapter 383 - "Cohabitation with a Slave Girl after Declaring Her 'Mudabbir'" (free after the master's death).

Chapter 387 - "Who is Entitled to the Property of a Slave or Slave Girl at the time of Sale."

Chapter 388 - "The Limit of Responsibility of the Seller in the Sale of a Slave or Slave Girl."

Chapter 390 - "On the Conditional Sale of a Slave Girl."


There are additional chapters dealing with slaves. This list is enough to show that dealing with slaves during and after Muhammad's time was extensive.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OTHER ISLAMIC WRITINGS ON MUSLIMS OWNING SLAVES

There are additional Islamic writings that document how Muhammad took purchased, sold, and gave away slaves. The following quotes are from "Behind the Veil".

Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, a great scholar and Islamic historian says in his book "Zad al-Ma'ad", part 1, p160:

"Muhammad had many male and female slaves. He used to buy and sell them, but he purchased more slaves then he sold. He once sold one black slave for two. His purchases of slaves were more than he sold."

"Muhammad had a number of black slaves. One of them was named 'Mahran'. Muhammad forced him to do more labor than the average man. Whenever Muhammad went on a trip and he, or his people, got tired of carrying their stuff, he made Mahran carry it. Mahran said "Even if I were already carrying the load of 6 or 7 donkeys while we were on a journey, anyone who felt weak would throw his clothes or his shield or his sword on me so I would carry that, a heavy load". Tabari and Jawziyya both record this, so Islam accepts this as true."


Ali, who was Muhammad's son-in-law, whipped Aisha's slave in front of Muhammad to make her talk about the adultery charges against Aisha. Muhammad did not say a word to Ali about beating the female slave. [From the Sirat Rasulallah, p496.]



In the Sirat Rasulallah, Muhammad massacred 800 males and took their women and children as slaves. He kept at least one Jewish female named Rayhana as his concubine, and gave the rest away to the Muslims. The Sirat says (p466) "Then the apostle divided the property, wives, and children of Banu Qurayza among the Muslims....
and

"Then the apostle sent Sa'd Zayd brother of Ashhal with some of the captive women of Banu Qurayza to Najd and he sold them for horse and weapons."


One thing for certain: MUHAMMAD WAS A SLAVER. The names of many of Muhammad's slaves are detailed in Muslim writings and they can be found in "Behind the Veil".


Some Muslims claim that slaves under Islam were always treated fairly and kindly, and that slaves in the West were always treated like "chattel". The fact is that the real treatment slaves in both the west and under Islam has varied. Some slaves were treated fairly, others were treated brutally. Both the Quran and New Testament command masters to treat slaves fairly. Compare Ephesians 6:9 with Sura 4:36. Both are similar. However, the New Testament condemns slave trading in 1 Tim 1:10 (menstealers is the same word for slave-traders), the Quran allows for, even urges slave-taking.



THE RIGHTS OF SLAVES UNDER ISLAM

According to the Hughes Dictionary of Islam, slaves had few civil or legal rights. For example:

a) Muslim men were allowed to have sex anytime with females slaves - Sura 4:3, 4:29, 33:49.

b) Slaves are as helpless before their masters as idols are before God - Sura 16:77

c) According to Islamic Tradition, people at the time of their capture were either to be killed, or enslaved. Shows you that they were at the bottom of the barrel to start with.

d) According to Islamic jurisprudence, slaves were merchandise. The sales of slaves was in accordance with the sale of animals.

e) Muhammad ordered that some slaves who were freed by their master be RE-ENSLAVED!

f) It is permissible under Islamic law to whip slaves.

g) According to Islam, a Muslim could not be put to death for murdering a slave. Ref. 2:178 and the Jalalayn confirm this.

h) According to Islam, the testimony of slaves is not admissible in court. Ibn Timiyya and Bukhari state this.

i) According to Islamic jurisprudence, slaves cannot choose their own marriage mate. - Ibn Hazm, vol. 6, part 9.

j) According to Islamic jurisprudence, slaves can be forced to marry who their masters want. - Malik ibn Anas, vol. 2, page 155.


Slavery continued in Islamic lands from about the beginning to this very day. Muslim rulers always found support in the Quran to call 'jihad', partly for booty, part for the purpose of taking slaves. As the Islamic empire disintegrated into smaller kingdoms, and each ruler was able to decide what Islam's theology really meant. Usually, he always found it in support of what he wanted to do. Their calls of jihad against their neighbor facilitated the taking of slaves for Islam. The Quran and Islamic jurisprudence support the taking of slaves, so, those petty Muslim rulers were following the Quran when they needed slaves.



WHO COULD BE MADE SLAVES UNDER ISLAM?

1) Islam allows Muslims to make slaves out of anyone who is captured during war.

2) Islam allows for the children of slaves to be raised as slaves

3) Like #1, Islam allows for Christians and Jews to be made into slaves if they are captured in war. After Muslim armies attacked and conquered Spain, they took thousands of slaves back to Damascus. The key prize was 1000 virgins as slaves. They were forced to go all the way back to Damascus.

4) Christians and Jews, who had made a treaty with the ruling Muslims could be made into slaves if they did not pay the "protection" tax. This paying for 'protection' was just like paying a Mafia racketeer! This allowed Muslim rulers to extort money from non-Muslim people.




POST MUHAMMAD SLAVERY

WHERE DID MANY OF THE MUSLIM'S SLAVES COME FROM?

Although Muslims took slaves from all over the lands they conquered, many of the Muslim slaves were black Africans. There were forced to do the harshest labor.

There was a famous black slave revolt in Iraq where thousands of black slaves revolted and killed tens of thousands of Arabs in Basrah. There slaves were forced to work in the large Muslim saltpeter mines. During their revolt, they conquered the city of Basrah, in Iraq. They conquered city after city, and they couldn't be stopped. Their uprising and drive for freedom lasted for about 11 years. ["The History of Islam", Robert Payne, p.185.]

As the Muslim armies continued to conquer land, they acquired many slaves. Bernard Lewis in "The Arabs in History" writes: "polytheists and idolaters were seen primarily as sources of slaves."

In the early years of the Arab conquests, vast numbers of slave were acquired by capture. C.E. Bosworth in "The Islamic Dynasties" writes: "the use of this labor enabled the Arabs to live on the conquered land as a rentier class and to exploit some of the economic potential of the rich Fertile Crescent."


Ibn Warraq writes: "Arabs were deeply involved in the vast network of slave trading - they scoured the slave markets of China, India, and Southeast Asia. There were Turkish slaves from Central Asia, slaves from the Byzantine Empire, white slave from Central and East Europe, and Black slaves from West and East Africa. Every city in the Islamic world had its slave market."



ABUSES OF SLAVES IN MODERN ISLAM TODAY

Muhammad did say that slaves should be treated fairly. But they were still a Muslim's property. Just as abuses occurred under Christianity, so too, many abuses occurred, and still occur under Islam. The difference between the two is that Islam ordains the taking of slaves during war, thus perpetuating slavery. Christianity does not. In slavery's perpetual existence, Islam has seen great abuses of slaves.

Everyone knows about the abuses of slaves in the new world. What do you know about the abuses of slaves under Islam? I found two very good books on slavery and Islam.

1) "Slavery and Muslim Society in Africa", by Allan Fisher, pub in 1971, and

2) "The Slave Trade Today" by Sean O'Callaghan, pub in 1961.

Both books really opened my eyes to how terrible slavery under Islam really is. I use the present tense, because it is obvious that these abuses continue to this day.

I also have a number of other references concerning slavery in Islam. A general survey is Hughes Dictionary of Islam. It notes a few basic points:

a) Slaves have no civil liberty, but are entirely under the authority of their owners.

b) Slavery is in complete harmony with the spirit of Islam. Islam did make life better for the average slave, but Muhammad intended it to be a perpetual institution.

c) Hughes also says that it is a righteous act to free a slave. I just find it hard to understand that the god who told Muhammad to take slaves later tells him it's good to free slaves?


In 'The Slave Trade Today', Sean O'Callaghan toured the Mideast and Africa and covertly visited many slave markets. Since Islam allows for slavery and slave trading, he was able to see much of the real world of Islamic slavery. Remember O'Callaghan saw this less than 40 years ago. This probably still continues today, albeit more discreetly.


In Djibouti he writes:
"Ten boys were ranged in a circle on the dais (used to display the slaves), their buttocks toward us. They were all naked, and I saw with horror that five had been castrated. The (slave dealer) said that usually 10% of the boys are castrated, being purchased by Saudi homosexuals, or by Yemenis, who own harems, as guards." p 75
"Why had the girls (female slaves who had just been sold) had accepted their fate without a murmur, the boys howled and cried?" "Simple" said the Somali, we tell the girls from a very early age - 7 or 8 that they are made for love, at age NINE we let them practice with each other, and a year later with the boys".


In Aden he writes:
"The Yemeni told me that the girls (slave girls used as prostitutes) were encouraged to have children, especially by white men. For if a slave girl had a white child, she was given a bonus of 20 pounds when the child was taken from her". As you can see, the child of a slave remained a slave, the owner could sell the child and make money. This sale is allowable under Islamic law.

"Only one offense was severely punished; attempting to escape from the harem... The wretched girl was stripped and spread eagle in the courtyard...punishment was administer by a eunuch, a huge powerful Negro who seemed to enjoy his task. 70 lashes were given."

"Because of this (the fact that eunuchs can perform sexually), the eunuch often has his penis removed as well as his testicles"! This is also legal under Islamic law, since it is preparing the slave for service.


In Saudi Arabia he writes:
'The slave population was estimated at 450,000"!. ....Slave auctions are no longer held regularly, only in an alley in Mecca."

'I was awakened by shouts and screams coming from the courtyard. Rushing to the window I looked down to see a dozen slaves being herded through a door at the far end of the yard. They were being driven in like cattle by three hefty guards armed with long lashed whips. Even as I watched, one of the poor wretches, a Sudanese girl with huge breasts, received a savage lash across her naked buttocks let out a shriek of agony'

'As the next slave was led in, a murmur of excitement went up among the buyers and they crowded closer around the rostrum. He was a slender boy of about 12 years old with beautiful classical Arab features. Although much has been written about Arab brotherhood and solidarity, I knew that the Arab has no compunction in enslaving his fellows should they fall into his hands.
The boy was naked and tried to cover his privates with his little hands and he ran up the steps of the rostrum......there is an age old saying among the Bedouin: "A goat for use, a girl for enjoyment, but a boy for ecstasy". He (the now purchased slave boy) was claimed by a tall bearded Arab who led him from the rostrum with an arm around his waist".


This is just a portion of what O'Callaghan saw. This happens because Islam has made it legal for slavery. Yes, some of this is against Islam, but because Islam has made it into an institution, abuses will occur.

Remember, this happened just 35 years ago or so, and it is probably still happening today.

It is also noted that as the slaves get too old to perform service or sexually satisfy their masters, their masters 'manumits' the slaves. Now, aged, worn out, they are put out on the streets to fend for themselves. These ex-slaves are left to fend for themselves. Their former owner has committed a great, righteousness act in freeing a slave! He gets rid of the burdensome slave, and gets a bonus in heaven. What a religion!



In Fisher's book, other observations are recorded:
In Mecca:
"We take note of 20 tall Negroes in turbans walking near the Kaba. They are eunuch slaves and are employed as police in the great Mosque. There are about 50 of them all together."

"The streets are full of slaves... we see a few old slave women. They are recognized by the poverty of clothing... but we see nothing of the younger women slaves who are kept in the houses of the city."

"As we move along we see two or three very old men and women who look like black skeletons. If we go to the mosque at sunrise we shall see some of these, if we go at sunset they will be there too, and if we pass by at midnight, we shall see them there still .. Sleeping on the stones in their rags. They have no home but the mosque, and no food but what they receive in alms; (they were) turned out to seek the bounty of Allah, as their masters would say."

Speaking of how Saudi obtains so many black slaves: "they (the slave traders) pose as Muslim missionaries who guide their compatriots (black African Muslims), to the Holy Places of Islam, to make the Pilgrimage, and be instructed in the Quran in Arabic." Once transported, they are made into slaves.

"So with the connivance of the Saudi authorities the ancient trade in black ivory is perpetuated in our time in spite of the international conventions".

Fisher also notes that white slaves are most highly prized.

Another interesting comment I've come across is that there were regions in black Africa that Muslim missionaries wouldn't go into. The reason is that if those blacks became Muslim, they could no longer enslave them. So, the Muslims banned spreading the word of Islam among certain black tribes. It was from these tribes that local Muslim rulers would harvest slaves, and sell them throughout the Islamic world.

Time and time again, slavery in Islam is abused. The west has finished with slavery, Islam continues it, and with that, the abuses go on.


A recent article on the slavery in Sudan is found in Newsweek, Oct. 12, 1992. Since that time, there have been numerous articles written by every form of press on Islamic slavery in Sudan. Basically, southern Sudanese, who are not Muslim, are attacked, and rounded up, and sold into slavery. Anyone willing to do a search at a library could find these articles quite easily.


Lastly, I remember watching a Tony Brown's Journal show. It covered the slavery existing in Muslim lands today, the torture of slaves, the hobbling by breaking the young boys ankles, the seizure of Negro lands by Arabs, etc. Anyone is able to call the show and order this tape. A Negro Muslim from Mauritania was on the show. He described what the Arabs in Mauritania were doing to the Negroes (all Muslim) there. Recent human rights publications have also stated that the same is happening in Mali. Arab Muslims are forcibly taking land, and enslaving Negro Muslims there.

Just a short while ago, a group of Negro pastors in the US, formed a group to combat Islamic slavery amongst the blacks, both Muslim and non-Muslim in Africa. The information on this can be found in the August 1997 issue of Charisma magazine, and in the 11-17-97 issue of Christianity. The group is called "Harambee" and is affiliated with the Loveland Church in Los Angeles, CA.

Islam, when compared to Christianity is a step backwards; a step into "justification" of the enslavement of others.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I'm sorry but your beautiful religion has some real problems that are obvious.
Its not personal .
You can grow up and become a better person

 

[Kalam]

As I've said, they've always managed to find some kind of "Christian" biblical passage to excuse their behavior....

Christians used Bible passages to back up their use of slavery here in N. America for 400 years.

I don't know of a single Christian who does that.

Can you give some examples please?

Slavery was not a "Christian behavior" It was happening, and some Christians participated.

Here are a few examples:

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." - President Jefferson Davis

"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." - Rev. Alexander Campbell

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." - Rev. Richard Furman

"The doom of Ham has been branded on the form and features of his African descendants. The hand of fate has united his color and destiny. Man cannot separate what God hath joined." - Gov. Henry Hammond (D-SC)​

As for slavery not being a "Christian behavior", I'm afraid that view is at odds with the words attributed by the Bible to Jesus, son of Mary (AS).

 

[bodecea]

As I've said, they've always managed to find some kind of "Christian" biblical passage to excuse their behavior....

Christians used Bible passages to back up their use of slavery here in N. America for 400 years.

I don't know of a single Christian who does that.

Can you give some examples please?

Slavery was not a "Christian behavior" It was happening, and some Christians participated.

The entire split off of the SOUTHERN Baptist Church is based on it.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Christians used Bible passages to back up their use of slavery here in N. America for 400 years.

I don't know of a single Christian who does that.

Can you give some examples please?

Slavery was not a "Christian behavior" It was happening, and some Christians participated.

Here are a few examples:

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." - President Jefferson Davis

"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." - Rev. Alexander Campbell

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." - Rev. Richard Furman

"The doom of Ham has been branded on the form and features of his African descendants. The hand of fate has united his color and destiny. Man cannot separate what God hath joined." - Gov. Henry Hammond (D-SC)​

As for slavery not being a "Christian behavior", I'm afraid that view is at odds with the words attributed by the Bible to Jesus, son of Mary (AS).

Well Im convinced
You lose

 

[Kalam]

I'm sorry but your beautiful religion has some real problems that are obvious.
Its not personal .
You can grow up and become a better person

One of us has an unhealthy obsession with a way of life that he does not understand, and it is not me. I don't think I'll be taking any advice from you as far as being a "better person" is concerned, nitwit. If you'd like to address the arguments that I made rather than copying and pasting a slew of unsourced garbage, feel free to do so - I'm interested in your arguments, not those of whoever authored the nonsense you posted.

The Bible is a disgusting and barbaric perversion of the word of Allah (SWT), yet you have the gall to attempt to insult Islam?

 

[Kalam]

I don't know of a single Christian who does that.

Can you give some examples please?

Slavery was not a "Christian behavior" It was happening, and some Christians participated.

Here are a few examples:

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." - President Jefferson Davis

"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." - Rev. Alexander Campbell

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." - Rev. Richard Furman

"The doom of Ham has been branded on the form and features of his African descendants. The hand of fate has united his color and destiny. Man cannot separate what God hath joined." - Gov. Henry Hammond (D-SC)​

As for slavery not being a "Christian behavior", I'm afraid that view is at odds with the words attributed by the Bible to Jesus, son of Mary (AS).

Well Im convinced
You lose

When you find that your argument is incongruous with facts, ignoring reality and proclaiming yourself the "winner" is generally not an advisable course of action.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I'm sorry but your beautiful religion has some real problems that are obvious.
Its not personal .
You can grow up and become a better person

One of us has an unhealthy obsession with a way of life that he does not understand, and it is not me. I don't think I'll be taking any advice from you as far as being a "better person" is concerned, nitwit. If you'd like to address the arguments that I made rather than copying and pasting a slew of unsourced garbage, feel free to do so - I'm interested in your arguments, not those of whoever authored the nonsense you posted.

The Bible is a disgusting and barbaric perversion of the word of Allah (SWT), yet you have the gall to attempt to insult Islam?

Yeah what ever
Anyone interested can figure Islam out in about 5 minutes.It isn't a mystery .