More on the flotilla

[Kalam]

I respond fully to each of your points

You are clear. Now I understand you.

One question though, to be completely clear Kalam.

Is there any room for Israel in the ME? If so, what is that room?

No answer?

Were you the poster who asked this question in the other thread, or was that someone else? I don't recall.

 

[Ropey]

Any effort -- minor, major, internal, external, or otherwise -- undertaken for the sake of Islam is "jihad." I don't know what you're asking.

If they stop the fight and move to Western peace with Israel?

Oh, it's a fight taken for the sake of Islamic jihad though.

It is right in your eyes.

 

[Ropey]

I respond fully to each of your points

You are clear. Now I understand you.

One question though, to be completely clear Kalam.

Is there any room for Israel in the ME? If so, what is that room?

No answer?

Were you the poster who asked this question in the other thread, or was that someone else? I don't recall.

It was me. Twice.

 

[georgephillip]

"The Rise and Rise of Poverty in Gaza The poverty statistics for the Gaza Strip chart the impoverishment of an entire population.

"Today(2007?), over 80% of Palestinians in Gaza are dependent on humanitarian assistance compared to 63% in 2006.

"In less than ten years, the number of families depending on UNRWA food aid has increased tenfold21.

"In 2008, there are over 1.1 million people – some three-quarters of the population of Gaza – who are dependent on food aid.

"The rise of poverty in Gaza relates to the crippling impact of the Israeli blockade within the broader context of a long-term pattern of economic degradation in Gaza stemming from Israeli-imposed closures since the early 1990s and, more recently, the eighteen-month international aid embargo on the Palestinian Authority that was in place until June 2007.

Oxfam pdf p.7

 

[Kalam]

If they stop the fight and move to Western peace with Israel?

Oh, it's a fight taken for the sake of Islamic jihad though.

It is right in your eyes.

Peace with Israel? Not in my eyes, no.

 

[Kalam]

No answer?

Were you the poster who asked this question in the other thread, or was that someone else? I don't recall.

It was me. Twice.

Then I've answered your question.

 

[Ropey]

If they stop the fight and move to Western peace with Israel?

Oh, it's a fight taken for the sake of Islamic jihad though.

It is right in your eyes.

Peace with Israel? Not in my eyes, no.

There we go. Thank you for finally standing up. There is no peace with Israel in your eyes.

Only peace with a deleted Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

If they stop the fight and move to Western peace with Israel?

Oh, it's a fight taken for the sake of Islamic jihad though.

It is right in your eyes.

Peace with Israel? Not in my eyes, no.

There we go. Thank you for finally standing up. There is no peace with Israel in your eyes.

Only peace with a deleted Israel.

What would it take to make peace with Israel?

What would peace look like?

 

[Ropey]

What would it take to make peace with Israel?

What would peace look like?

I asked you that question long ago PF. It's your turn first...

 

[P F Tinmore]

What would it take to make peace with Israel?

What would peace look like?

I asked you that question long ago PF. It's your turn first...

One state, equal rights for all. Justice for those who have lost people and places.

 

[Ropey]

A one state solution?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs0xLdFqU_s[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H8HFb-YG00[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeAVBYAbn0"]Hamas Spokesmen calls for genocide of all Jews [/ame]

We know what that entails PF ... and are ready ...

 

[Ropey]

Hamas

From its inception in 2002, the Initiative deeply divided the organization.[8] As stated before, members of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas' military wing, committed the Passover Massacre on same day as the peace Initiative's adoption.[3] At that time, Hamas rejected not only peace with Israel but even negotiations with it.[18] The official administration of Hamas never recognized the Initiative, which alienated it from members of the Arab League, especially Jordan and Egypt.[47] One of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' conditions of forming a national coalition government with Hamas after the 2006 election was that Hamas had to recognize the Initiative, but he was unsuccessful.[47]

Hamas' spokesman Ismail Abu Shanab told The San Francisco Chronicle in April 2002 that the organization would accept it, saying "That would be satisfactory for all Palestinian military groups to stop and build our state, to be busy in our own affairs, and have good neighborhood with Israelis."[48] The newspaper reporters who interviewed Shanab questioned whether or not he truly spoke for the administration and could not corroborate his story.[48] Hamas' foreign minister Mahmoud al-Zahar said in June 2006 that the organization rejects the initiative.[8] Prime Minister Ismail Haneya said on October 2006 that the "problem with the Arab peace initiative is that it includes recognition of the state of Israel, the thing that the Palestinian government rejects" and dismissed it.[49] That month, Mahmoud al-Zahar declared unequivocally: "Hamas will never change its position regardless of the pressure's intensity" and "We will never recognize the Arab initiative."[50]

After the revival of the initiative in March 2007, Hamas continued a policy of ambiguity with many officials giving negative responses while some gave neutral or hopeful responses.[26] Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhum told Haaretz that "the issue is not a 'yes' or 'no' by Hamas regarding the initiative. We respect the Arab efforts to attain Palestinian rights and we will act within the Arab consensus. Nonetheless, the Zionist enemy continues to reject the initiative and we will not determine our position in reference to it before it has been accepted."[26] Haaretz sources in Palestine state that Hamas wanted to oppose the initiative outright but did not do so because it did not want to break with the Saudi Arabian government.[26] Hamas figure Khaled Meshaal ridiculed the PLO pro-initiative ad campaign, saying “The rights of Palestinians can be achieved only through resistance, not advertisements”.[17]

Time stated in January 2009 that "In the Arab world, only Hamas and Hizballah, with the backing of Tehran, reject the Arab peace initiative." Left-wing Israeli commentator and former Minister of Justice Yossi Beilin also said in January 2009 that "Hamas considers its adherence to the three "nos" of Khartoum from 1967, which the entire Arab world abandoned in adopting the Arab peace initiative, to be its primary distinctive feature Fateh. Even a prolonged battering by the IDF will not bring Hamas to make this change." The Khaleej Times editorialized in December 2008 that "The Arab peace plan remains the best and most pragmatic solution to Palestine-Israel conflict.... Even though Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not prepared to accept anything short of the entire Palestine occupied in 1940s, if the plan is accepted by Israel and US, the Arabs could possibly persuade Islamists to embrace it too."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

Fact Sheet
#71: Palestinians Declare Three Noes to Peace
(August 11, 2009)

Echoing the Arab rejection of peace with Israel expressed at Khartoum almost exactly 42 years ago (“no peace with Israel, no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel&#8221, the Palestinians declared at the Fatah conference in Bethlehem in August 2009 three noes: no negotiations with Israel, no recognition of Israel as a Jewish state and no end to the armed struggle against Israel.

In fact, in addition to the three noes to peace, the Palestinians had more than a dozen other demands, including Israeli acceptance of the “right of return” of Palestinian refugees, the release of all Palestinian prisoners from Israeli jails, the freezing of all settlement construction and the lifting of the Gaza blockade. They also vowed to continue the struggle against Israel “until Jerusalem returns to the Palestinians void of settlers and settlements. ”

These recalcitrant positions come after Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) previous statements that he will not negotiate with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and expects President Obama to bring about Netanyahu’s downfall.

Click

This is happening right now. Hamas is clear, when they are not speaking. Otherwise, they are clear when they choose who and how to speak their case.

But the Hamas writing is clear.

 

[Ropey]

Unlike the Palestinians who say the Jews can stay as Palestinian citizens.

Gaza Employs Nazi Ideologies

This IS Hamas. And PF says Israel must go but the Jews can stay.

Yeah, what they say and what they do are two different things indeed. PF knows this but he denies it.

We see it here.

 

[P F Tinmore]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpkxoql4xz0[/ame]

 

[Trajan]

No state will allow you to take contraband across borders.

You dis the California trooper when you try to bring an apple across the border, you will not get loving treatment from him either. Unless you are into things like handcuffs.

What contraband?

Cell phones,camcorders, and wallets?

What borders?

The Mavi Marmara was assaulted in international waters on FUCKING MEMORIAL DAY... you know, the day Americans celebrate their heroes who have died in war.

At least Israel didn't send torpedo boats this time, and they only managed to murder a single US citizen.

Maybe you can try harder next July 4th.

if they had hove to and went through channels they could have delivered whatever was not on the proscribed list.

THEY knew exactly what would eventually happen if they didn't , yet they did...sux to be stupid OR have an agenda.

 

[georgephillip]

Like Moshe's Agenda?

"Moshe Dayan, who was one of the more dovish members of the Israeli elite, happened to be defense minister in charge of the Occupied Territories in 1967.

"He advised his colleagues at the time that we should tell the Palestinians, 'We have nothing for you, you're going to live like dogs, and whoever will leave will leave. And we will see where it all ends up.'"

Z Media...

Where do you see it all ending up?

 

[Ropey]

Where do you see it all ending up?

Where G-d wills it to end up.

We are drops of water in a swiftly moving stream. Do we have any control? I don't know.

George?

Are all drops created equal?

 

[georgephillip]

G-d's will isn't too comforting for those who believe god is little more than a lie the rich have told for the last 5000 years.

Drops of water seem uniform to me; however, I'm not sure if equality applies to inanimate objects.

I wonder if you agree with Chomsky's assessment of the relationship between Sadat's '71 peace offer and Israel's war two years later?

"The rejection of Sadat's offer led to the 1973 war, which was a very close thing for Israel.

"They were almost destroyed. (Ropey, do you agree?)

"At that point, the U.S. and Israel recognized that you can't just disregard Egypt.

"Then starts Kissinger's famous shuttle diplomacy, leading to the Camp David agreements in which the U.S./Israel basically accepted Sadat's 1971 offer—they had no choice.

"But from that point on, the U.S. and Israel have preferred expansion.

"It could have security now with no hostile countries on its borders, but then it would have to abandon expansion into the West Bank and the savage, criminal siege of Gaza."

ZCommunications...

 

[Ropey]

Unless you answer my questions I will never answer yours.

Never...

It's a quid pro quo and must be honest non diatribe. I doubt if you can follow that. Your question does not, but I would answer it.

I believe you to be the one of most malevolent souls I have seen on this forum George.

But my question stands.

 

[Jroc]

Unless you answer my questions I will never answer yours.

Never...

It's a quid pro quo and must be honest non diatribe. I doubt if you can follow that. Your question does not, but I would answer it.

I believe you to be the one of most malevolent souls I have seen on this forum George.

But my question stands.

Hes got to check with Chomsky first, He can't think for himself I guess. In a way I feel sorry for Georgie.