More History Before 1967

[Gardener]

Gardener, et al,

Yeah, the idea of "apartheid" is a domestic issue, not an international issue.
My understanding is that, inside Israel, there is no difference in the law between the citizens (Jewish or Arab). In fact, neither Jewish or Arab is a race; which is a key element of the law. An Arab can be Jewish, or Jews can be Arab.

• The Jewish are an ethno-religious group of sorts.
• An Israeli is a nationality (can be Arab or other).
• To be Arab is a culture, all speakers of Arabic

.

The crime of "apartheid" means acts committed by one racial group over any other racial group. There is no racial laws in Israel. No society is without internal friction between different cultures, but that is not "apartheid."
First: This is an immigration matter. The crime of "apartheid" does not impact national immigration laws. Any nation has the right to control its borders.

Second: What is being said here is that there is no automatic citizenship passed on through marriage. So what. This translates to:

• A non-citizen cannot (does not have the right to) move to israel if (just because) they marry an israeli (citizen).

I'm not a specialist in immigration law, but I am given to understand that there is such a thing as an "Israeli spousal visa or partner visa, given to the spouse, civil partner or de facto partner of a resident or Israeli citizen." I would contact Consular Services.

SPECIAL NOTE: (NATIONALITY LAW, 5712-1952* PART ONE: ACQUISITION OF NATIONALITY - Para 7) The spouse of a person who is an Israel national or who has applied for Israel nationality and meets or is exempt from the Requirements of Section 5 (a) may obtain Israel nationality by naturalisation even if she or he is a minor or does not meet the requirements of section (5) (a).​

I am also given to understand that:
This claim, appears to apply to the ground called (layman's terms) "the Occupied Territories." While there are cases in which the Palestinian may have a legitimate grievance with the Occupation Power, on matters of acquisition land management, this is not the same as "apartheid."

israel steals palestinian land to build isaeli schools, roads, walls, fences, but does niothing for the palestuinians.

this is aparhtied.

(COMMENT)

This is not "apartheid." This is not something undertaken to separate one racial group of Israeli Citizens from another racial group of Israeli Citizens.

First, There is no "racial" component here at all.

Second: The building of infrastructure is not the responsibility of the Occupation Force. That is the responsibility of the Palestinian people.

(DISCLAIMER)

Again, I am not an expert (in any way, shape or form) on Israeli Immigration. But, the Israel MFA has experts at every Consular Station. That would be my first stop.

Most Respectfully,
R

iszrael diiscrimiates and mistreats people udner their control.

they have one law for palestinians in nthe west bank and another law for israelis in the west bank.

they havde laws meant to help jews and hurt arabs.

this is apatheid based on natinality and religion.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Tinmore, why is is that you make these claims as if you know what you're talking about ?

We've already showed you information regarding Israels borders with Egypt and Jordan. You have provided ZERO documents or articles to contradict what we have said.

It is a matter of law. Why does Israel negotiate borders with Palestine? Because Palestine is the only one who can change Palestine's borders.

Can Germany and Italy sign a treaty saying they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Completely different since Germany, ITaly and France are all recognized countries.

ARTICLE 3

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

 

[Gardener]

Gardener, et al,

Yeah, the idea of "apartheid" is a domestic issue, not an international issue.

thank you for undrsytanding that the westr bank is not part of israel.

the west bank isnt part of israel even though the ziomists always say it is.

i congratulate your honesty in admittimng that the west bank "arab palestine" is not part of israel.

thank you.

 

[toastman]

It is a matter of law. Why does Israel negotiate borders with Palestine? Because Palestine is the only one who can change Palestine's borders.

Can Germany and Italy sign a treaty saying they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Completely different since Germany, ITaly and France are all recognized countries.

ARTICLE 3

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

You showed me that link before.
It does not prove what you are saying at all. The word border is not mentioned once.
Oh, and, Palestine was not a state . Very weak attempt Tinmore. Fail

Let me try again:
Show me some document or article that says Israels borders (which are internationally recognized) are null because the Palestinians didn't give permission

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Good try, but no cigar.

ARTICLE 3

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

(COMMENT)

The Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States only applies to the Americas; a regional treaty convention. Neither Israel or anyone claiming to be a representative of the Palestinians are a signatory. In fact, there are no signatories outside of the Americas.

The global convention that is applicable is the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, UNGA Res. 2625(XXV) (Declaration on Friendly Relations) which the Palestinians find themselves in contravention with all the time [(as recently as this month)(SENIOR HAMAS OFFICIAL: THE RESISTANCE IS ENTITLED TO ATTACK ISRAEL'S EMBASSIES, INTERESTS, AND OFFICIALS WORLDWIDE -- AND THE INTERESTS OF ITS ALLIES, HEADED BY THE U.S.)].

Every State has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues.

SOURCES:

• http://www.unrol.org/files/3dda1f104.pdf
• http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/2625(XXV)
• http://www.law.hku.hk/conlawhk/conlaw/outline/Outline4/2625.htm

The Palestinians have proclaimed themselves to be above the international Rule of Law.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Gardener]

The Palestinians have proclaimed themselves to be above the international Rule of Law.

Most Respectfully,
R

meanwhiloe you defende israel who buikld illegal settlements on stolen land in arab palestine.

israel thinkgs they are above all law even their own/.

isnt israel giving permits to israeli srettlements that were built without permits?

so they think they can let israelis break israeli law?

lol!!!!!!

 

[Hossfly]

The Palestinians have proclaimed themselves to be above the international Rule of Law.

Most Respectfully,
R

meanwhiloe you defende israel who buikld illegal settlements on stolen land in arab palestine.

israel thinkgs they are above all law even their own/.

isnt israel giving permits to israeli srettlements that were built without permits?

so they think they can let israelis break israeli law?

lol!!!!!!

Say, Gardener, are you acquainted with anyone who allowed their child to be a suicide bomber so that he could take out these "evil" Zionists. Sadly enough, there are still suicide bombers in the Muslim world taking out innocent people (even Muslims of different sects), but those who want to say derogatory things against Israel all the time seemingly close their eyes to what is happening elsewhere. And, of course, civilized people wouldn't LOL about it.

 

[RoccoR]

Gardener, et al,

Again, you are not quite right.

The Palestinians have proclaimed themselves to be above the international Rule of Law.

Most Respectfully,
R

meanwhiloe you defende israel who buikld illegal settlements on stolen land in arab palestine.

israel thinkgs they are above all law even their own/.

isnt israel giving permits to israeli srettlements that were built without permits?

so they think they can let israelis break israeli law?

lol!!!!!!

(COMMENT)

As I've said many times, and actually copied (more than a dozen times) the applicable law, the Palestinians have a prima facie case for a cause of action under Article 8, Para 2b(viii) of the Rome Statues - International Criminal Court. The proper action for the Palestinians to take (which is counter US Foreign Policy preferences) is to take the issues to court for formal litigation; --- OR --- to sit down and negotiate an equitable settlement. Of course, in counter suit, Israel could make claim to War Reparations, Civil Damages, Terrorism Restitution and other actions in equity (costs associated with the defense of sovereignty).

Again, as I've said before, neither side is totally in the right, or totally in the wrong. But there are peaceful means by which a just outcome can be achieved. Having said that, it certainly doesn't sound like the Palestinians want to approach such a settlement; rather, they consistently opt to approach the issue in armed conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

I've never seen so many typos in one post

 

[Hossfly]

I've never seen so many typos in one post

Wait for the 2nd Shift Gardener to appear who types better. You can't tell me there is just one guy posting who never comes up for air.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Armistice lines.

As Rocco explained, Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan were fixed as a result of her peace treaties with them.

Israel cannot acquire Palestinian borders by agreements with Egypt and Jordan.

That's okay, because Israel acquired Israeli borders with Egypt and Jordan.

You may have noticed, the guys who signed those agreements were Jews.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

"Israeli Apartheid Week is an annual series of university lectures and rallies of the Israeli situation with the Palestinians held in February or March.

"According to the organization, "[t]he aim of IAW is to educate people about the nature of Israel as an apartheid system and to build Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) campaigns as part of a growing global BDS movement".[1]

"It began in Toronto in 2005 and, by 2010, spread to 55 cities around the world including locations in Canada, the United Kingdom, the United States, South Africa, the West Bank, Mexico, Norway and Australia.[2][3][4][5][6][7]"

Israeli Apartheid Week - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course we all know that Israel practices no apartheid.
This has been proved time and time again on the forum.

It is a term used by the ignorant.
​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByMufgpcdnI]The Palestinian Wall of Lies - YouTube[/ame]

Another load of crap from that lying sack of crap, David Horowitz.

So you think what David Horowitz says with the Muslim Students Association is not affiliated with Hamas. Yeah riiight. Another lie from you.

 

[toastman]

Tinmore hates Horowitz because he speaks the truth about Hamas and Hezbollah

 

[Gardener]

Tinmore hates Horowitz because he speaks the truth about Hamas and Hezbollah

David Horowits said th MSA needs to convrt to Judahism or Christianty. He said that MSA wants a second Holocaust. he said the Palestinians are Nazis.

he sounds like a crazy zionist bigot

 

[toastman]

Tinmore hates Horowitz because he speaks the truth about Hamas and Hezbollah

David Horowits said th MSA needs to convrt to Judahism or Christianty. He said that MSA wants a second Holocaust. he said the Palestinians are Nazis.

he sounds like a crazy zionist bigot

Finally !

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is purely a Palestinian Claim. It has no basis in law.

As Rocco explained, Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan were fixed as a result of her peace treaties with them.

Israel cannot acquire Palestinian borders by agreements with Egypt and Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Treaties are between Israel and the respective countries (Egypt and Jordan). The Palestinians were not party to the Treaty and have no say in the Treaty, as they were not a sovereignty involved in the agreement.

Treaties are on file with the UN and so recognized as valid and in force. No adjacent state has a Treaty in recognition of the State of Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R

There are no peace treaties with Palestine because Palestine has never been at war with anyone.

 

[MHunterB]

Tinmore hates Horowitz because he speaks the truth about Hamas and Hezbollah

David Horowits said th MSA needs to convrt to Judahism or Christianty. He said that MSA wants a second Holocaust. he said the Palestinians are Nazis.

he sounds like a crazy zionist bigot

Then of course you will be able to produce documentation that Horowitz actually made such statements - from some actual news outlet, not someone's blogstain.

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is purely a Palestinian Claim. It has no basis in law.

Israel cannot acquire Palestinian borders by agreements with Egypt and Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Treaties are between Israel and the respective countries (Egypt and Jordan). The Palestinians were not party to the Treaty and have no say in the Treaty, as they were not a sovereignty involved in the agreement.

Treaties are on file with the UN and so recognized as valid and in force. No adjacent state has a Treaty in recognition of the State of Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R

There are no peace treaties with Palestine because Palestine has never been at war with anyone.

Maybe if the rules were changed and they could take their women and children into battle...............nah, no guts, no glory.

 

[toastman]

There are no peace treaties with the Palestinians because they don't want peace, they want victory

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is purely a Palestinian Claim. It has no basis in law.

Israel cannot acquire Palestinian borders by agreements with Egypt and Jordan.

(COMMENT)

The Treaties are between Israel and the respective countries (Egypt and Jordan). The Palestinians were not party to the Treaty and have no say in the Treaty, as they were not a sovereignty involved in the agreement.

Treaties are on file with the UN and so recognized as valid and in force. No adjacent state has a Treaty in recognition of the State of Palestine.

Most Respectfully,
R

There are no peace treaties with Palestine because Palestine has never been at war with anyone.

Because it's never been a country.