Mind Control of MSNBC, FOX and The Net

[Vast LWC]

I don't see any correlation whatsoever between Beck and Olbermann. Olbermann is not a kook. He is a Liberal broadcaster, nothing more.

Apparently you missed Olbermann's show during the latter half of the Bush presidency then. Because his conspiracy theories were just as far-fetched as Beck's.

 

[Synthaholic]

When did you decide to go all vicitm-mentality on me? I watch FOX. I like FOX. Not to mention it gave me one of my all-time favorite shows (24).

Two different television networks.

 

[Synthaholic]

And still, I would put a straight up Fox News report against ANYBODY's news report for being fair and balanced and honestly presenting both sides of an issue. That is something nobody else is doing as well.

I disagree completely. But I'm not a Conservative so it's not surprsing that I would disagee. Nor do I contend that MSNBC does a better job of being objective, btw. Like I said, they are both obviously biased, to those of us not subscribing to their respective agenda.

Yes, editorially, Fox overall does have a conservative bias and it is as successful because it is the ONLY television source where that can consistently be found. Evenso, the conservative point of view is not the ONLY point of view presented. And certainly the majority of Fox's regular viewers are going to be those who appreciate having their conservative point of view presented as well as the opposing point of view. There is no other television outlet in which that is the case.


Nah, that's complete crap there. I mean HELLO, the regulars on CNN are the former Republican Strategist for Bush, Former head of Intel for Bush (the good one, not the idiot) and so on. MSNBC? They do exactly what FOX does to "appear" fair & balanced. The get someone who is almost an apologist for the other side and who is easily talked over - just like FOX.

Again the primary television news sources are Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, HLN, PBS. Of all of those the ONLY one that tilts more right than left is Fox.

I find CNN objective. Certainly more so than FOX - which I'm sure you and other Conservatives will have feelings about but oh well, there it is. The Left claims FOX is a bunch of liars or SO biased. The Right Claims every other source on the planet is a bunch of liars or SO Biased. Those who aren't married to ideology see both for what they are.

Do you think it's okay for one of all those television news sources to be slanted more conservative?
I think whatever a media business finds successful, it will do.

Do you see that as such a threat that it shouldn't allowed in the world of information or those who watch Fox News must be belittled, demeaned, ridiculed, or disrespected in order to be politically correct? Or that leftist leaders seem almost desperate to find some way to legally defang Fox News?

When did you decide to go all vicitm-mentality on me? I watch FOX. I like FOX. Not to mention it gave me one of my all-time favorite shows (24). So your basis for me seeing it as a "threat" is based on what? Because I don't BS about it being fair, balanced or objective, just because it isn't?
Seems like you're the one who is displaying the traits of someone who feels threatened and honestly, I don't know why. I have not demeaned, belittled or even farted in your direction! (trying to lighten up a little here).

Look, you can say what you want but guess what? The only people who find FOX "fair & balanced" are Conservatives. Just like the only people who feel that way about MSNBC are Liberals.
Yet you're not attacking my view that MSNBC is completely biased to the Left, are you?

No because MSNBC IS biased to the left editorially just as Fox is biased the right editorially. But in my professional opinon as one who was thoroughly trained in what is media bias and what is not, Fox straight news reporting does a much better job of not being biased than does MSNBC or CNN.

And victim mentality? When have you heard a Republican President get before a microphone and complain about media coverage from a particular network or cable cannel like Obama and the Democrats complain about Fox? When have you EVER heard of a suggested 'fairness doctrine' to rein in MSNBC or any of the other alphabet networks or channels or to 'balance' Air America from the right? Yet you frequently hear leftists thinking Fox News should be forced to be more 'balanced' and that stations should be forced to offer as much liberal talk radio as they program conservative talk radio, etc.

Of course MSNBC sounds 'fair and balanced' to the garden variety leftist because that is what they want to hear. And a conservative slant on Fox sounds good to a conservative who has nowhere else to go to have his or her point of view articulated.

But from a purely objective point of view, I know when something is dishonestly slanted right or left. Fox does a better job in being less dishonest than does MSNBC.

Really? Trained by whom?

 

[Synthaholic]

I don't see any correlation whatsoever between Beck and Olbermann. Olbermann is not a kook. He is a Liberal broadcaster, nothing more.

Apparently you missed Olbermann's show during the latter half of the Bush presidency then. Because his conspiracy theories were just as far-fetched as Beck's.

Poppycock.

 

[Vast LWC]

You seem to have a very good grasp as to what goes on at the FOXNews. Clearly you've watched and studied enough of it's programming to formulate such an opinion.

I'm curious to see your analysis of msnbc.

MSNBC is set up in the exact same format. They pretty much copied what FoxNews did.

Keith Olbermann was the original. He is now gone, but many like him survive.

What they do is this:

Step 1: They show real news during the day, but only show the stories that fit their world-view. The reporting of the stories is relatively objective, so they can make some claim to journalistic integrity.

Step 2: They use the stories they report during the day as a springboard to launch into their prime time commentary shows.

In these shows, radical talking-heads like Ed Schultz or Chris Matthews will bring on either people who either:

• completely support their opinion and pretend to be objective reporters, or
• people who slightly disagree with their opinion, who they then proceed to talk over and badger into submission.

This creates the illusion that there are actually multiple points of view, which there aren't.

Now, pretty much the only thing that separates MSNBC from Fox at all, is that they have a genuine conservative (Joe Scarborough) on in the morning.

But I guess they figure that if they have one in a time-filling slot, it will lend them an air of credibility.

Interesting. Have you ever watched a good amount of msnbc? I get the impression that you don't have as much experience on msnbc as you do on the FOXNews.

Actually, the opposite is true.

You see, I am a reformed Liberal conspiracy-theorist. I used to watch Olbermann religiously, never checked my facts, and believed much of what he said, even when he would make the most outrageous implications.

Fortunately, I came to see the truth. That MSNBC was just as bad as FoxNews, though that fact was successfully hidden for a while behind a thin patina of illusory journalistic integrity.

 

[Vast LWC]

I don't see any correlation whatsoever between Beck and Olbermann. Olbermann is not a kook. He is a Liberal broadcaster, nothing more.

Apparently you missed Olbermann's show during the latter half of the Bush presidency then. Because his conspiracy theories were just as far-fetched as Beck's.

Poppycock.

Well, see for yourself...

I direct you to about 1:48 in this video, where Mr Olbermann begins a rant and a half, calling Mr Bush every name in the book, saying he sided with the Terrorists, and accusing him of several crimes.:

A veto of the FISA bill 'endangers Americans' - msnbc tv - Countdown with Keith Olbermann - msnbc.com

 

[MarcATL]

I would need some examples of this. Stories FOX (or even CNN) covered but MSNBC ignored because of some worldview.

Now, the opposite is true. FOX frequently does not cover a mid-day Obama speech, while MSNBC and CNN do. FOX did not cover the Egyptian square protests until well into it. FOX didn't cover the Senator John Ensign sex scandal/ethics scandal (a two-fer!!!), even though MSNBC certainly covered the Anthony Weiner Scandal.

I just don't think there is equivalence between what FOX does and what real news organizations do.

Exactly!!!

This is where I believe LWC is going off the deep end. Sure msnbc has a liberal bias. However, what he fails to acknowledge in his false equivalency comparison is that theFOXNews consistently, consistently just makes stuff up. They outright lie.

Say what you will about msnbc, but they DO NOT do that. And if and when they do mix up something, the perp ALWAYS gives an adamant and sincere correction. Something you pretty much NEVER see on the FOXNews.

Thus, LWC's comparison that msnbc = the FOXNews is bogus.

LWC, if you're serious in your comparison, please watch this:

OUTFOXED : Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism

BTW, the documentary features multiple ex FOXNews employees.

 

[Vast LWC]

Exactly!!!

This is where I believe LWC is going off the deep end. Sure msnbc has a liberal bias. However, what he fails to acknowledge in his false equivalency comparison is that theFOXNews consistently, consistently just makes stuff up. They outright lie.

Say what you will about msnbc, but they DO NOT do that. And if and when they do mix up something, the perp ALWAYS gives an adamant and sincere correction. Something you pretty much NEVER see on the FOXNews.

Thus, LWC's comparison that msnbc = the FOXNews is bogus.

LWC, if you're serious in your comparison, please watch this:

OUTFOXED : Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism

BTW, the documentary features multiple ex FOXNews employees.

Marc,

I've watched Outfoxed. I HATE FoxNews.

But generally, FoxNews does the exact same thing that MSNBC does.

They generally do not lie, they imply. That's what Glenn Beck did on every show. He very carefully did not outright lie, but he heavily implied some truly hideous things.

 

[MarcATL]

Exactly!!!

This is where I believe LWC is going off the deep end. Sure msnbc has a liberal bias. However, what he fails to acknowledge in his false equivalency comparison is that theFOXNews consistently, consistently just makes stuff up. They outright lie.

Say what you will about msnbc, but they DO NOT do that. And if and when they do mix up something, the perp ALWAYS gives an adamant and sincere correction. Something you pretty much NEVER see on the FOXNews.

Thus, LWC's comparison that msnbc = the FOXNews is bogus.

LWC, if you're serious in your comparison, please watch this:

OUTFOXED : Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism

BTW, the documentary features multiple ex FOXNews employees.

Marc,

I've watched Outfoxed. I HATE FoxNews.

But generally, FoxNews does the exact same thing that MSNBC does.

They generally do not lie, they imply. That's what Glenn Beck did on every show. He very carefully did not outright lie, but he heavily implied some truly hideous things.

LWC, FOXNews outright lies. You said you've seen Outfoxed, they lie. You know this to be true.

msnbc does not outright lie.

Unless, of course, you're suggesting that they actually do?

 

[Vast LWC]

LWC, FOXNews outright lies. You said you've seen Outfoxed, they lie. You know this to be true.

msnbc does not outright lie.

Unless, of course, you're suggesting that they actually do?

Please don't make me troll right-wing sites for links to factual inaccuracies made by MSNBC. That would make me so sad.

 

[MarcATL]

LWC, FOXNews outright lies. You said you've seen Outfoxed, they lie. You know this to be true.

msnbc does not outright lie.

Unless, of course, you're suggesting that they actually do?

Please don't make me troll right-wing sites for links to factual inaccuracies made by MSNBC. That would make me so sad.

I'm going to have to request those links please.

 

[Vast LWC]

LWC, FOXNews outright lies. You said you've seen Outfoxed, they lie. You know this to be true.

msnbc does not outright lie.

Unless, of course, you're suggesting that they actually do?

Please don't make me troll right-wing sites for links to factual inaccuracies made by MSNBC. That would make me so sad.

I'm going to have to request those links please.

OK, first, let me start by saying that it's been a while since I saw the film, but as I remember, Outfoxed only actually claimed one outright lie in the film. The rest was slant, implication, and spin.

That is not to say that Fox has not lied other than that, but just to say that that is all they claimed in the movie.

Now, as for MSNBC:

Try to ignore the attempt at right-wing comedy in the intro, but Here is a video where MSNBC claims that a man carrying a gun at a Tea Party event was an act of racism, immediately followed by a video of CNN panning away from the close-up, showing the man to be a black man.

Here's some from Rachel Maddow:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...dow/president-bush-new-york-times-interviews/

(here she lies about FoxNews, which I find really on point...)

PolitiFact | Rachel Maddow says Fox News 'said the New Black Panther Party decided the election for Barack Obama'

Here's some from Ed Schultz:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ultz-says-mcchrystal-was-obama-problem-inher/

PolitiFact | Schultz claims that Landrieu got $1.8 million in BP PAC and employee contributions

There's more...

 

[Vast LWC]

There, I had to go to sites like "NewsMax" to find links to those. Now I feel all dirty. I'm going to have to go wash my hands. LOL.

 

[IndependntLogic]

When did you decide to go all vicitm-mentality on me? I watch FOX. I like FOX. Not to mention it gave me one of my all-time favorite shows (24). So your basis for me seeing it as a "threat" is based on what? Because I don't BS about it being fair, balanced or objective, just because it isn't?
Seems like you're the one who is displaying the traits of someone who feels threatened and honestly, I don't know why. I have not demeaned, belittled or even farted in your direction! (trying to lighten up a little here).

Look, you can say what you want but guess what? The only people who find FOX "fair & balanced" are Conservatives. Just like the only people who feel that way about MSNBC are Liberals.
Yet you're not attacking my view that MSNBC is completely biased to the Left, are you?

No because MSNBC IS biased to the left editorially just as Fox is biased the right editorially. But in my professional opinon as one who was thoroughly trained in what is media bias and what is not, Fox straight news reporting does a much better job of not being biased than does MSNBC or CNN.

And victim mentality? When have you heard a Republican President get before a microphone and complain about media coverage from a particular network or cable cannel like Obama and the Democrats complain about Fox? When have you EVER heard of a suggested 'fairness doctrine' to rein in MSNBC or any of the other alphabet networks or channels or to 'balance' Air America from the right? Yet you frequently hear leftists thinking Fox News should be forced to be more 'balanced' and that stations should be forced to offer as much liberal talk radio as they program conservative talk radio, etc.

Of course MSNBC sounds 'fair and balanced' to the garden variety leftist because that is what they want to hear. And a conservative slant on Fox sounds good to a conservative who has nowhere else to go to have his or her point of view articulated.

But from a purely objective point of view, I know when something is dishonestly slanted right or left. Fox does a better job in being less dishonest than does MSNBC.

Really? Trained by whom?

Yeah I grinned when I saw that. The National School of Fair & Balanced Reporting
Judgment maybe?
Aw what the heck. Everyone I've met here is a Constitutional Lawyer / Scholar / Business-Owning / CPA / Purple Heart Winning CIA Agent. So a degree in FOXNewsiness isn't much of a stretch...

 

[daveman]

And the only reason FoxNews is more popular than any other news show out there is that all conservatives will religiously watch Foxnews, while the rest of the political spectrum watches the various other news programs out there.

All conservatives? Really? All of them?

I don't watch Fox News. I don't watch any TV news, except for the local stuff every now and then.

So does that mean I'm not a conservative? Or perhaps you'd like to retract your bigoted and ignorant blanket statement.

Exactly. I certainly don't get even most of my news from Fox News, but I do catch programs here and there, usually while I'm working and usually when there is especially breaking news so I'm pretty familiar with the flavor and slant of all the primary figures on Fox. But when you figure that most Americans tilt right of center on most issues, and Fox gets a relatively small market share when compared to share when there were only three networks that dominated all the news, it is pretty obvious not all conservatives watch Fox.

Nor do only liberals watch the other cable news channels. I check in on all of them from time to time and I am about as modern American conservative as it gets.

But the left does get apolectic about Fox don't they? Apparently they think it isn't fair that Fox is so successful and they only have ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, HLN, MSNBC, CNBC, and PBS to turn to for their point of view to be emphasized.

The left is terribly upset that unapproved thought is getting out to the proles.

 

[daveman]

Exactly. I certainly don't get even most of my news from Fox News, but I do catch programs here and there, usually while I'm working and usually when there is especially breaking news so I'm pretty familiar with the flavor and slant of all the primary figures on Fox. But when you figure that most Americans tilt right of center on most issues, and Fox gets a relatively small market share when compared to share when there were only three networks that dominated all the news, it is pretty obvious not all conservatives watch Fox.

Nor do only liberals watch the other cable news channels. I check in on all of them from time to time and I am about as modern American conservative as it gets.

But the left does get apolectic about Fox don't they? Apparently they think it isn't fair that Fox is so successful and they only have ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, HLN, MSNBC, CNBC, and PBS to turn to for their point of view to be emphasized.

OK:

1. The country doesn't "slant center right on most issues". That phrase is in fact, a FoxNews talking point, invented by, and most used by, FoxNews.
Not to mention the fact that it is in fact impossible for the country to "Swing center-right", as that would then be the "center".

2. I find it incredibly amusing to see a rightie talk about the "left getting apolectic about Fox".
For decades, the right has been screaming it's head off about how the media is "left-wing", and even you repeat the same mantra in your post, immediately after your accusation.
That would be what is commonly known as "projection".

Ahem.

True. Now let's see some numbers, comparison of total Fox News viewers to number of conservatives.

You did the research, right?

 

[daveman]

Apparently you missed Olbermann's show during the latter half of the Bush presidency then. Because his conspiracy theories were just as far-fetched as Beck's.

Poppycock.

Well, see for yourself...

I direct you to about 1:48 in this video, where Mr Olbermann begins a rant and a half, calling Mr Bush every name in the book, saying he sided with the Terrorists, and accusing him of several crimes.:

A veto of the FISA bill 'endangers Americans' - msnbc tv - Countdown with Keith Olbermann - msnbc.com

Synthia agrees with that.

 

[Foxfyre]

No because MSNBC IS biased to the left editorially just as Fox is biased the right editorially. But in my professional opinon as one who was thoroughly trained in what is media bias and what is not, Fox straight news reporting does a much better job of not being biased than does MSNBC or CNN.

And victim mentality? When have you heard a Republican President get before a microphone and complain about media coverage from a particular network or cable cannel like Obama and the Democrats complain about Fox? When have you EVER heard of a suggested 'fairness doctrine' to rein in MSNBC or any of the other alphabet networks or channels or to 'balance' Air America from the right? Yet you frequently hear leftists thinking Fox News should be forced to be more 'balanced' and that stations should be forced to offer as much liberal talk radio as they program conservative talk radio, etc.

Of course MSNBC sounds 'fair and balanced' to the garden variety leftist because that is what they want to hear. And a conservative slant on Fox sounds good to a conservative who has nowhere else to go to have his or her point of view articulated.

But from a purely objective point of view, I know when something is dishonestly slanted right or left. Fox does a better job in being less dishonest than does MSNBC.

Really? Trained by whom?

Yeah I grinned when I saw that. The National School of Fair & Balanced Reporting
Judgment maybe?
Aw what the heck. Everyone I've met here is a Constitutional Lawyer / Scholar / Business-Owning / CPA / Purple Heart Winning CIA Agent. So a degree in FOXNewsiness isn't much of a stretch...

Not a degree in FoxNewsiness, but my college major was journalism and media communications. I have had the training in what constitutes bias and what does not at a time when reporters and news writers were held to extremely strict standards not to show bias in news reporting and I have also spent some years working in that field with editors and producers who strongly enforced that code.

 

[Foxfyre]

No because MSNBC IS biased to the left editorially just as Fox is biased the right editorially. But in my professional opinon as one who was thoroughly trained in what is media bias and what is not, Fox straight news reporting does a much better job of not being biased than does MSNBC or CNN.

And victim mentality? When have you heard a Republican President get before a microphone and complain about media coverage from a particular network or cable cannel like Obama and the Democrats complain about Fox? When have you EVER heard of a suggested 'fairness doctrine' to rein in MSNBC or any of the other alphabet networks or channels or to 'balance' Air America from the right? Yet you frequently hear leftists thinking Fox News should be forced to be more 'balanced' and that stations should be forced to offer as much liberal talk radio as they program conservative talk radio, etc.

Of course MSNBC sounds 'fair and balanced' to the garden variety leftist because that is what they want to hear. And a conservative slant on Fox sounds good to a conservative who has nowhere else to go to have his or her point of view articulated.

But from a purely objective point of view, I know when something is dishonestly slanted right or left. Fox does a better job in being less dishonest than does MSNBC.

Just off the first search I did:

George W Bush complains about media coverage of Iraq (10/21/03):

Here.

George HW Bush complains about media coverage of his children (5/19/92):

Here.

Ronald Reagan Complains about the media conspiringn against the presidency with congress and special interest groups (12/14/88):

Here.

Yes, it turns out that it is actually quite common for a president to complain about media attention. Seems to be a crowd pleaser, to rile up the base.

You can go all the way back to McKinley complaining about Hearst if you'd like. Though, admittedly, that one didn't go so well for McKinley.

Of course, you won't hear that particular angle on the "Obama's a complainer" stories on FoxNews.

Complaining about coverage is NOT the same thing as suggesting legislation or regulation to change the coverage. That is a really important distinction.

 

[Vast LWC]

Complaining about coverage is NOT the same thing as suggesting legislation or regulation to change the coverage. That is a really important distinction.

Oh, I'm DEFINITELY going to need a link where the president promoted legislation to stop FoxNews from criticizing him.

And right-wing opinion pieces don't count unless they contain credible references.