Military Grade Nerve Agent used in assassination attempt.

[Billy_Bob]

This should scare the crap out of anyone who knows and has handled these things. Someone used military grade toxins (VX) in an effort to kill an ex soviet double agent in England. 24 people were contaminated and affected. The man and his daughter are in critical but stable condition but are unconscious. The officer who attempted to help them is in stable but good condition and is talking.

If they can get this into The UK imagine what they could bring here..

Theresa May today branded an attempt to kill a Russian double agent with a nerve agent an 'appalling and reckless crime'.

The Prime Minister said she would do 'what is right' if it was proven the Kremlin was responsible for the attempt on Sergei Skripal's life.

Mrs May hinted at support for expelling the Russian ambassador if the case was proven.

The cold war is back.... WITH A VENGEANCE...


May condemns attempt to kill a Russian spy with a nerve agent | Daily Mail Online

 

[Billy_Bob]

Britain warns Russia over double agent's mysterious illness

Come on people.... Do any of these reporters have any commonsense? There was nothing 'mysterious' about this, even the medical staff have identified the toxin..

 

[saveliberty]

So I should throw away this Walgreens nerve agent?

The sell by date is still good.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I read about this sob from the 50's who used a pen. Vicious and effective. He was a Russian named Stashynsky (spelling) who defected eventually from East Berlin, went to America I believe.

Also the Russian spy whose name escapes me who killed with a pellet at the end of an umbrella.

The KGB and their current incarnation are good at this. They are of course very targeted, but also very effective. I still want to know about his situation, was he under an alias? Was he protected? If so, the English have a leak. Of course the Russians are good enough to find them on their own, but, this is quite bold. It's going to cost Russia one way or another.

 

[pismoe]

i think that the rule is that only the best nerve agents , poisons , bullets , accidents will be used in Russian Assassinations .

 

[Billy_Bob]

So I should throw away this Walgreens nerve agent?

The sell by date is still good.

LOL

The Washington Compost is re-missing that it wasn't Trump..

There has been some speculation they may have used Ricin or something like it but that is very localized unlike VX which would have propagated out a ways and why there were 24 involved. Kind of waiting for the skin tests to see if the use of VX is confirmed. My bigger concern is that a small pressurized perfume style bottle is all that is necessary to do what was done. Being a non-persistent (as agents go) it will become inert very rapidly. (why there were varying degrees of exposure yet mass casualty)..

Lots to speculate about...

 

[Billy_Bob]

This reminds me of an enforcer for the mob... Kill in the most gruesome and public way you can to gain fear and panic over the populace. Screw the proximity unintended victims.. Adds to the fear factor..

 

[whitehall]

Pretty sloppy way to eliminate a political enemy don't you think?

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

What exactly is military grade nerve agent? VX is produced for personal use?

 

[Billy_Bob]

What exactly is military grade nerve agent? VX is produced for personal use?

Do you use Raid? or any other host of insect killers? Then your using VX in a very low grade. The old Bug Bombs (that some used to commit suicide with) are still a low grade but a few steps up. Weapons grade is where a small burst can kill out to about 20 meters. If you look at how many were affected you can assess their distance from the disperser. Given it was raining when this happened, they are damn lucky it was or they wouldn't be alive.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Pretty sloppy way to eliminate a political enemy don't you think?

Not if your goal is to inflict fear.... keep your agents in line... Killing the family member cements this fear... This was done to send a crystal clear message... "we'll kill your family too"

 

[shockedcanadian]

Pretty sloppy way to eliminate a political enemy don't you think?

Yes and no. I only speak about this as I love reading about real spies.

Ideally in a perfect world for a spy slayer just has their target "disappear" without a trace. That is what the best do. Whoever knocked off Jimmy Hoffa should have contracted by the Russians. Even worse in the spy game, as the British would have to wonder if he didn't just simply defect back to his old team. Just gone, as if he never existed.

Of course, this rarely happens as one of the primary criteria for such a hit is opportunity. I'm guessing he was very cautious and wouldn't decide to go visit a bar at 1am, hence, he might have inadvertently (again, I'm assuming) caused his daughter to be effected too. It could have been very deliberate to kill her too, but without reading anything of the story I would say it COULD (clearly it most likely didn't but for argument sake) have gone something like this.

Guy goes to the same restaurant, once or twice a week. Been doing it for a year. Either the Russians were watching him, or tipped off. They send some cook or waiter under a false name to find employment there, wait for the opportunity and place it in his soup. His daughter ordered the same and she got caught up in the issue as the Russians don't care if she goes too, it's just not their priority, collateral damage if you will. I don't know how it was introduced into their systems, but this not out of the ordinary. Her illness could very well have been intentional, I don't know. Like he others who are ill, it might not have been their goal.

Could have been a spray, something presented to his clothes in any number of ways. So many possibilities. In the last well publicized one with low grade plutonium of Litvenko (spelling) I don't think they ever found out how it was introduced, but the British found out there were traces on the plane. So, most likely someone on the plane got him.

Doing it this way gives them thinly presented plausible deniability in the event they don't understand what it is that is responsible for the illness or how it was introduced. A bullet through the head screams assassin, and brings far more risk to the spy doing it when a guy drops immediately in the streets with an obvious puncture, but a slower acting poison happens gradually and is far more difficult to determine who did it or even how he contracted it.

Of course, as this was a specific substance and not "over the counter" type product, it's clearly going to be a not so subtle sign that the Russians did it. I'm sure Russian spies who are working against England in England are not very excited about this event...they might be the next Fall Guy in any retaliation.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Pretty sloppy way to eliminate a political enemy don't you think?

Not if your goal is to inflict fear.... keep your agents in line... Killing the family member cements this fear... This was done to send a crystal clear message... "we'll kill your family too"

Yes, assuming that was their goal. I'm like you and lean that they wanted her gone too as a message, as they are ruthless Russians, but it's not a certainty to be the case. In fact, it could enter into the explanation and end up helping the Brits find the culprit as the British might now assume because she got sick too, whoever did it might have been able to be identified by her and thus they didn't take any chances.

Time will tell once it all comes out. One thing is for sure, the British have a very bad history in the spycraft. They were the best at one point and the OSS essentially helped form the CIA for America. In the last few decades they have really become laggard, at least in these high profile cases. I have no doubt they are very effective in their offensive objectives, but to allow another Russian spy to be killed on your soil and the whole world watching, including your "peers"? They have to respond with payback. These things just don't seem to happen as often of late with the FBI or CIA when someone defects to the U.S.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Pretty sloppy way to eliminate a political enemy don't you think?

Yes and no. I only speak about this as I love reading about real spies.

Ideally in a perfect world for a spy slayer just has their target "disappear" without a trace. That is what the best do. Whoever knocked off Jimmy Hoffa should have contracted for the Russians. Even worse in the spy game, as the British would have to wonder if he didn't just simply defect back to his old team. Just gone, as if he never existed.

Of course, this rarely happens as one of the primary criteria for such a hit is opportunity. I'm guessing he was very cautious and wouldn't decide to go visit a bar at 1am, hence, he might have inadvertently (again, I'm assuming) caused his daughter to be effected too. It could have been very deliberate to kill her too, but without reading anything of the story I would say it COULD (clearly it most likely didn't but for argument sake) have gone something like this.

Guy goes to the same restaurant, once or twice a week. Been doing it for a year. Either the Russians were watching him, or tipped off. They send some cook or waiter under a false name to find employment there, wait for the opportunity and place it in his soup. His daughter ordered the same and she got caught up in the issue as the Russians don't care if she goes too, it's just not their priority, collateral damage if you will. I don't know how it was introduced into their systems, but this not out of the ordinary. Her illness could very well have been intentional, I don't know. Like he others who are ill, it might not have been their goal.

Could have been a spray, something presented to his clothes in any number of ways. So many possibilities. In the last well publicized one with low grade plutonium of Litvenko (spelling) I don't think they ever found out how it was introduced, but the British found out there were traces on the plane. So, most likely someone on the plane got him.

Doing it this way gives them thinly presented plausible deniability in the event they don't understand what it is that is responsible for the illness or how it was introduced. A bullet through the head screams assassin, and brings far more risk to the spy doing it when a guy drops immediately in the streets with an obvious puncture, but a slower acting poison happens gradually and is far more difficult to determine who did it or even how he contracted it.

This happened on a crowed street while it was raining... the shear number affected tells me it was a dispersed toxin and anyone could have done it...

 

[shockedcanadian]

Pretty sloppy way to eliminate a political enemy don't you think?

Yes and no. I only speak about this as I love reading about real spies.

Ideally in a perfect world for a spy slayer just has their target "disappear" without a trace. That is what the best do. Whoever knocked off Jimmy Hoffa should have contracted for the Russians. Even worse in the spy game, as the British would have to wonder if he didn't just simply defect back to his old team. Just gone, as if he never existed.

Of course, this rarely happens as one of the primary criteria for such a hit is opportunity. I'm guessing he was very cautious and wouldn't decide to go visit a bar at 1am, hence, he might have inadvertently (again, I'm assuming) caused his daughter to be effected too. It could have been very deliberate to kill her too, but without reading anything of the story I would say it COULD (clearly it most likely didn't but for argument sake) have gone something like this.

Guy goes to the same restaurant, once or twice a week. Been doing it for a year. Either the Russians were watching him, or tipped off. They send some cook or waiter under a false name to find employment there, wait for the opportunity and place it in his soup. His daughter ordered the same and she got caught up in the issue as the Russians don't care if she goes too, it's just not their priority, collateral damage if you will. I don't know how it was introduced into their systems, but this not out of the ordinary. Her illness could very well have been intentional, I don't know. Like he others who are ill, it might not have been their goal.

Could have been a spray, something presented to his clothes in any number of ways. So many possibilities. In the last well publicized one with low grade plutonium of Litvenko (spelling) I don't think they ever found out how it was introduced, but the British found out there were traces on the plane. So, most likely someone on the plane got him.

Doing it this way gives them thinly presented plausible deniability in the event they don't understand what it is that is responsible for the illness or how it was introduced. A bullet through the head screams assassin, and brings far more risk to the spy doing it when a guy drops immediately in the streets with an obvious puncture, but a slower acting poison happens gradually and is far more difficult to determine who did it or even how he contracted it.

This happened on a crowed street while it was raining... the shear number affected tells me it was a dispersed toxin and anyone could have done it...

Ah yes, I had considered that it might have been in a crowd, which is why so many were impacted. If this is the case then I have to lean with the assumption she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with her father and is collateral.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Pretty sloppy way to eliminate a political enemy don't you think?

Yes and no. I only speak about this as I love reading about real spies.

Ideally in a perfect world for a spy slayer just has their target "disappear" without a trace. That is what the best do. Whoever knocked off Jimmy Hoffa should have contracted for the Russians. Even worse in the spy game, as the British would have to wonder if he didn't just simply defect back to his old team. Just gone, as if he never existed.

Of course, this rarely happens as one of the primary criteria for such a hit is opportunity. I'm guessing he was very cautious and wouldn't decide to go visit a bar at 1am, hence, he might have inadvertently (again, I'm assuming) caused his daughter to be effected too. It could have been very deliberate to kill her too, but without reading anything of the story I would say it COULD (clearly it most likely didn't but for argument sake) have gone something like this.

Guy goes to the same restaurant, once or twice a week. Been doing it for a year. Either the Russians were watching him, or tipped off. They send some cook or waiter under a false name to find employment there, wait for the opportunity and place it in his soup. His daughter ordered the same and she got caught up in the issue as the Russians don't care if she goes too, it's just not their priority, collateral damage if you will. I don't know how it was introduced into their systems, but this not out of the ordinary. Her illness could very well have been intentional, I don't know. Like he others who are ill, it might not have been their goal.

Could have been a spray, something presented to his clothes in any number of ways. So many possibilities. In the last well publicized one with low grade plutonium of Litvenko (spelling) I don't think they ever found out how it was introduced, but the British found out there were traces on the plane. So, most likely someone on the plane got him.

Doing it this way gives them thinly presented plausible deniability in the event they don't understand what it is that is responsible for the illness or how it was introduced. A bullet through the head screams assassin, and brings far more risk to the spy doing it when a guy drops immediately in the streets with an obvious puncture, but a slower acting poison happens gradually and is far more difficult to determine who did it or even how he contracted it.

This happened on a crowed street while it was raining... the shear number affected tells me it was a dispersed toxin and anyone could have done it...

Ah yes, I had considered that it might have been in a crowd, which is why so many were impacted. If this is the case then I have to lean with the assumption she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with her father and is collateral.

The Russians are known to inflict harm on family, intentionally.... Its fear they want, and it sends the message to their other operatives loud and clear. If she was given a massive dose as was her father she too was targeted..

 

[shockedcanadian]

Pretty sloppy way to eliminate a political enemy don't you think?

Yes and no. I only speak about this as I love reading about real spies.

Ideally in a perfect world for a spy slayer just has their target "disappear" without a trace. That is what the best do. Whoever knocked off Jimmy Hoffa should have contracted for the Russians. Even worse in the spy game, as the British would have to wonder if he didn't just simply defect back to his old team. Just gone, as if he never existed.

Of course, this rarely happens as one of the primary criteria for such a hit is opportunity. I'm guessing he was very cautious and wouldn't decide to go visit a bar at 1am, hence, he might have inadvertently (again, I'm assuming) caused his daughter to be effected too. It could have been very deliberate to kill her too, but without reading anything of the story I would say it COULD (clearly it most likely didn't but for argument sake) have gone something like this.

Guy goes to the same restaurant, once or twice a week. Been doing it for a year. Either the Russians were watching him, or tipped off. They send some cook or waiter under a false name to find employment there, wait for the opportunity and place it in his soup. His daughter ordered the same and she got caught up in the issue as the Russians don't care if she goes too, it's just not their priority, collateral damage if you will. I don't know how it was introduced into their systems, but this not out of the ordinary. Her illness could very well have been intentional, I don't know. Like he others who are ill, it might not have been their goal.

Could have been a spray, something presented to his clothes in any number of ways. So many possibilities. In the last well publicized one with low grade plutonium of Litvenko (spelling) I don't think they ever found out how it was introduced, but the British found out there were traces on the plane. So, most likely someone on the plane got him.

Doing it this way gives them thinly presented plausible deniability in the event they don't understand what it is that is responsible for the illness or how it was introduced. A bullet through the head screams assassin, and brings far more risk to the spy doing it when a guy drops immediately in the streets with an obvious puncture, but a slower acting poison happens gradually and is far more difficult to determine who did it or even how he contracted it.

This happened on a crowed street while it was raining... the shear number affected tells me it was a dispersed toxin and anyone could have done it...

Ah yes, I had considered that it might have been in a crowd, which is why so many were impacted. If this is the case then I have to lean with the assumption she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with her father and is collateral.

The Russians are known to inflict harm on family, intentionally.... Its fear they want, and it sends the message to their other operatives loud and clear. If she was given a massive dose as was her father she too was targeted..

Yes of course they could potentially be looking to send a message, I just don't think one can conclusively come to that conclusion yet that's all. He may not have been the type to ever go outside much at all, and only does so with his daughter on special occasions. He could be following a strict security regiment and this was the only opportunity the Russians had to get him. One thing is for sure, a former Russian spy has to know he is going to be a target for the rest of his life.

Not that it matters really, their actions speak for themselves.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Pretty sloppy way to eliminate a political enemy don't you think?

Yes and no. I only speak about this as I love reading about real spies.

Ideally in a perfect world for a spy slayer just has their target "disappear" without a trace. That is what the best do. Whoever knocked off Jimmy Hoffa should have contracted for the Russians. Even worse in the spy game, as the British would have to wonder if he didn't just simply defect back to his old team. Just gone, as if he never existed.

Of course, this rarely happens as one of the primary criteria for such a hit is opportunity. I'm guessing he was very cautious and wouldn't decide to go visit a bar at 1am, hence, he might have inadvertently (again, I'm assuming) caused his daughter to be effected too. It could have been very deliberate to kill her too, but without reading anything of the story I would say it COULD (clearly it most likely didn't but for argument sake) have gone something like this.

Guy goes to the same restaurant, once or twice a week. Been doing it for a year. Either the Russians were watching him, or tipped off. They send some cook or waiter under a false name to find employment there, wait for the opportunity and place it in his soup. His daughter ordered the same and she got caught up in the issue as the Russians don't care if she goes too, it's just not their priority, collateral damage if you will. I don't know how it was introduced into their systems, but this not out of the ordinary. Her illness could very well have been intentional, I don't know. Like he others who are ill, it might not have been their goal.

Could have been a spray, something presented to his clothes in any number of ways. So many possibilities. In the last well publicized one with low grade plutonium of Litvenko (spelling) I don't think they ever found out how it was introduced, but the British found out there were traces on the plane. So, most likely someone on the plane got him.

Doing it this way gives them thinly presented plausible deniability in the event they don't understand what it is that is responsible for the illness or how it was introduced. A bullet through the head screams assassin, and brings far more risk to the spy doing it when a guy drops immediately in the streets with an obvious puncture, but a slower acting poison happens gradually and is far more difficult to determine who did it or even how he contracted it.

This happened on a crowed street while it was raining... the shear number affected tells me it was a dispersed toxin and anyone could have done it...

Ah yes, I had considered that it might have been in a crowd, which is why so many were impacted. If this is the case then I have to lean with the assumption she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with her father and is collateral.

The Russians are known to inflict harm on family, intentionally.... Its fear they want, and it sends the message to their other operatives loud and clear. If she was given a massive dose as was her father she too was targeted..

Yes of course they could potentially be looking to send a message, I just don't think one can conclusively come to that conclusion yet that's all. He may not have been the type to ever go outside much at all, and only does so with his daughter. He could be following a strict security campaign and this was the only opportunity the Russians had to get him. One thing is for sure, a former Russian spy has to know he is going to be a target for the rest of his life.

Not that it matters really, their actions speak for themselves.

Point taken...

Time will tell the tale.. The KGB however, never allowed a good assassination to go to waste..

 

[JustAnotherNut]

I don't think it was an assassination attempt, but as OP says to send a clear message. If the Russians/KGB wanted them dead, they'd be dead

 

[Billy_Bob]

I don't think it was an assassination attempt, but as OP says to send a clear message. If the Russians/KGB wanted them dead, they'd be dead

Any time you introduce a chemical nerve agent into a public place its big news... The only reason the death toll wasn't big is the rain. Rain renders VX impotent once dispersed. If it had been dry air and those around were able to inhale it undiluted, the game would have been over. This was a screw up or a desperation attempt to get them despite the rain.