Middle class could face higher taxes under Republican plan, analysis finds

[Listening]

Here's the deal slick....this isn't 1787 anymore. And I also question the motivations of the wealthiest and most powerful of those times in the making of those supposedly hard and fast rules for our country. Most of them were slave owners, and in Jefferson's case.......he inherited that wealth, along with the property that Monticello sits on today......which, btw was sold after his death.....why? To pay off his debts....nice role model, huh?

Well asshole, I am afraid that we still have the government that was set up in 1787 and unless you plan to change that, the rules still apply.

Now, if you'd like to change that, I'll see you in the streets.

They owned slaves. You screw your boyfriend in the ass. What do I care.

A good government is a good government. It is mine as well as yours and just because you don't like what that means does not mean you get to change it at will (not without some bullets flying). There is a process for modifying it and it has been modified (or were you not aware of that ?). But you losers are to lazy or know the American people don't have the interest in changing things so you and your other leeches can live off the rest of us any more than you already do.

Yep...throw out the "leech" card when you lost an argument...that's what you fuckers do best.

So...Conservatives speak for all of the people now? Yes...I know there is a process for change....that process is alive and well and it works for liberals as well as conservatives.



You are the lazy ones who seem to think this country only belongs to you because you pay taxes. There's a hell of a lot of us on the side of Democracy that pays taxes too. You know what I think? I think you guys throw out the "leech" card to deflect from your own horrible financial situations.... that somehow, if you lose every safety net you have and give it to the wealthy, they will show you mercy and allow you into their club. Woody dude, chances are you will never even get to walk on the front lawn.

Bend over and accept the fact that Mr. Hope and Change isn't going to ever get it done.

Setting aside most of your irrelevant drivel about what you think (cause I really don't care).

The government system we have now is what we had i 1787 for the most part...that you don't like what how it keeps you from robbing others is just tough.

If you pay taxes....great. Enjoy.

I don't look to anyone for anything. But you keep trying. If you are that insecure, maybe you should move back home.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You turds are liars. That's always credible.

 

[RDD_1210]

You turds are liars. That's always credible.

Says the guy who pretends that he pays federal income tax. LOL. Moocher.

 

[Listening]

You turds are liars. That's always credible.

Says the guy who pretends that he pays federal income tax. LOL. Moocher.

And the guy who flips burgers shows what a dick he is.

Is your RDD_1210 a convict id ?

 

[Steelplate]

According to Rush,Beck and Fox news,right? Let me clue you in....."fair and balanced is a lie....trickle down economics is a bold faced lie, and shit like citizens United is an attempt at a coup-d'Stat against a country that's supposed to be by, for, and of the people.

 

[RDD_1210]

You turds are liars. That's always credible.

Says the guy who pretends that he pays federal income tax. LOL. Moocher.

And the guy who flips burgers shows what a dick he is.

Is your RDD_1210 a convict id ?

What a dick I am? For pointing out the he pays no federal income taxes? Shouldn't you be mad at him for being a "moocher"?

You guys need to get your talking points straight.

 

[Listening]

According to Rush,Beck and Fox news,right? Let me clue you in....."fair and balanced is a lie....trickle down economics is a bold faced lie, and shit like citizens United is an attempt at a coup-d'Stat against a country that's supposed to be by, for, and of the people.

Citizens United ran the gauntlet. Tough s**t.

Had it been knocked down...the system would still be said to have worked.

Is this your diversion from getting your ass kicked over the US Constitution ?

 

[Rinata]

Take off your cheerleading outfit.

It is showing off your blubbery thighs.

Get some new material, dummy, and get over yourself. You are so self-important and think that you are just so cool. You're not. You are a copycat without an original thought in your head and haven't enough sense to come in out of the rain.

So don't get mad at me because you got your ass handed to you on a platter. Serves you right.

There is an 800 number for A.A. I suggest you give it a try based on your last post.

That or you are just 13 years old. I've seen better "backed in the corner" rants from middle schoolers.

Now, let's not even discuss your lack of any logic to this or anything else you post. If you think puffing up your chest over your big gut is somehow going to make you formidable...you've got another thing coming.

My ass is still well attached. And I am sure it is 50 pounds lighter than yours.

Better luck next time fatso.

You just proved my point, you pompous ass. However, I have to say that this post is even more nonsensical than usual. And your copycat attacks are really boring. Grow up.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Yeah, my 60 hr weeks at a new commercial construction real estate firm paying the NYC standard puts me at the back f the bus.

 

[Listening]

Get some new material, dummy, and get over yourself. You are so self-important and think that you are just so cool. You're not. You are a copycat without an original thought in your head and haven't enough sense to come in out of the rain.

So don't get mad at me because you got your ass handed to you on a platter. Serves you right.

There is an 800 number for A.A. I suggest you give it a try based on your last post.

That or you are just 13 years old. I've seen better "backed in the corner" rants from middle schoolers.

Now, let's not even discuss your lack of any logic to this or anything else you post. If you think puffing up your chest over your big gut is somehow going to make you formidable...you've got another thing coming.

My ass is still well attached. And I am sure it is 50 pounds lighter than yours.

Better luck next time fatso.

You just proved my point, you pompous ass. However, I have to say that this post is even more nonsensical than usual. And your copycat attacks are really boring. Grow up.

Keep trying.....or consider actually posting to the thread instead of showing that all that sitting on your fat ass has pulled down your already low I.Q.

It is probably time for you nightime meds....try not to wet the bed this time.

 

[Rinata]

Well asshole, I am afraid that we still have the government that was set up in 1787 and unless you plan to change that, the rules still apply.

Now, if you'd like to change that, I'll see you in the streets.

They owned slaves. You screw your boyfriend in the ass. What do I care.

A good government is a good government. It is mine as well as yours and just because you don't like what that means does not mean you get to change it at will (not without some bullets flying). There is a process for modifying it and it has been modified (or were you not aware of that ?). But you losers are to lazy or know the American people don't have the interest in changing things so you and your other leeches can live off the rest of us any more than you already do.

Odds that you're also lower middle class at best. I put it at 85% at the very least. LOL. Mooch off of you...bwahahahaha! Thanks for the laugh.

Sorry lightweight....you have no idea what I have.
Don't quit your dayjob serving burgers.

It's not exactly hard to figure out. You seem to be a person of very little quality and do not want to discuss politics or exchange ideas. You want to be a bully and name call and showoff that you know all of the bad words. You're really just a punk.

 

[Listening]

Odds that you're also lower middle class at best. I put it at 85% at the very least. LOL. Mooch off of you...bwahahahaha! Thanks for the laugh.

Sorry lightweight....you have no idea what I have.
Don't quit your dayjob serving burgers.

It's not exactly hard to figure out. You seem to be a person of very little quality and do not want to discuss politics or exchange ideas. You want to be a bully and name call and showoff that you know all of the bad words. You're really just a punk.

Once again, I'll invite you STFU and post to the topic of the thread. Maybe the person who is reading it to you (since it is obvious you are to stupid to do that on your own) can type in your responses....provided you can keep from slurring them.

Or maybe you could point to a recent post where you discussed politics and shared ideas without committing the same crime you accuse others of (note to person reading this to Rinata....go slow).

 

[Rinata]

There is an 800 number for A.A. I suggest you give it a try based on your last post.

That or you are just 13 years old. I've seen better "backed in the corner" rants from middle schoolers.

Now, let's not even discuss your lack of any logic to this or anything else you post. If you think puffing up your chest over your big gut is somehow going to make you formidable...you've got another thing coming.

My ass is still well attached. And I am sure it is 50 pounds lighter than yours.

Better luck next time fatso.

You just proved my point, you pompous ass. However, I have to say that this post is even more nonsensical than usual. And your copycat attacks are really boring. Grow up.

Keep trying.....or consider actually posting to the thread instead of showing that all that sitting on your fat ass has pulled down your already low I.Q.

It is probably time for you nightime meds....try not to wet the bed this time.

You're really boring me. I'm way too good to talk to you. But that's it. I think I have just been bored to death.

 

[Steelplate]

The topic was higher taxes under Romney....until you guys changed the fucking thing to a Constitutional and ideological debate...so practice what you preach numbnuts.

 

[Listening]

You just proved my point, you pompous ass. However, I have to say that this post is even more nonsensical than usual. And your copycat attacks are really boring. Grow up.

Keep trying.....or consider actually posting to the thread instead of showing that all that sitting on your fat ass has pulled down your already low I.Q.

It is probably time for you nightime meds....try not to wet the bed this time.

You're really boring me. I'm way too good to talk to you. But that's it. I think I have just been bored to death.

You keep responding....like you somehow think I care what you post.

You are way to good to talk to me...or you need another Big Mac ? Now, that is rich.

 

[Listening]

The topic was higher taxes under Romney....until you guys changed the fucking thing to a Constitutional and ideological debate...so practice what you preach numbnuts.

No, the topic is a report from the Washington T(oilet Paper)imes that claims Romney's plan will raise taxes on the middle class.

I believe they were right up Chris' ass when it came to Walker.

If you wanted to discuss the merits of such a distribution....based on the so called study...I think that would be valid.

To claim it will actually happen when the report was commissioned by democratic senators (and just what the hell are they doing looking at studies on a candidate...spending our tax dollars on a re-election campaign ?) is stupid.

So, get it right....

 

[Steelplate]

Get it right? Who diverted the thread to the constitution? But that aside, if you think the report is a lie, why don't you prove it wrong instead of simply dismissing it? Oh that's right, it's because you're too lazy. It's much easier to stick your head in the sand or wait for Beck to tell you what to think.

 

[Conservative]

Odds that you're also lower middle class at best. I put it at 85% at the very least. LOL. Mooch off of you...bwahahahaha! Thanks for the laugh.

Sorry lightweight....you have no idea what I have.
Don't quit your dayjob serving burgers.

It's not exactly hard to figure out. You seem to be a person of very little quality and do not want to discuss politics or exchange ideas. You want to be a bully and name call and showoff that you know all of the bad words. You're really just a punk.

funny how people bitch about others calling names, and in the same sentence call people names.

dumb ass.

 

[Conservative]

Hamilton, who won the debate, along with Washington and the other Federalists, claims different. I've provided his analysis of what the Founder's clause of Article 1, Section 8 means. According to his analysis, it's whatever Congress decides is to the greater good, as long as it doesn't go against a constitutional limitation.

he, like you, was wrong.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/229791-middle-class-could-face-higher-taxes-under-republican-plan-analysis-finds-15.html#post5492346
An outstandingly detailed and well reasoned piece on the meaning and intent of 'the general welfare' clause.

The general welfare clause: an exploration of original intent and constitutional limits ...

THE FOUNDING FATHERS' EXPRESSED INTENT REGARDING THE GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE
The founding fathers agreed that the General Welfare Clause is a limitation on the preceding taxation clause and not its own independent grant of power. In the first draft of the Constitution, the provision related to taxation read, "The legislature of the United States shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises." n6 The clause related to general welfare was not present. If this additional clause is not a limitation on the taxing provision and instead is its own grant of power, then the preceding taxing provision is left meaningless. Thomas Jefferson stated, "To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might be for the good of the union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of the power completely useless." n7 Jefferson wrote that the consequence of such an unintended meaning would carry with it great peril, stating that this misinterpretation "would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would also be a power to do whatever evil they pleased." n8

James Madison stated that the purpose of the General Welfare Clause is to limit [p. 546] spending to only the powers specifically enumerated in the Constitution. "To understand" the General Welfare Clause "in any sense," James Madison explained to Congress in 1791, and not "limited and explained by the particular enumeration subjoined," would "give to Congress an unlimited power." n10 If Congress could tax and spend for whatever purpose it desired, Madison argued, this "would render nugatory the enumeration of particular powers" and it "would supercede all the powers reserved to the state governments ... ." n11 Again in 1830, in a letter to Andrew Stevenson, Madison penned that the framers never "understood [the General Welfare Clause to] invest Congress with powers not otherwise bestowed by the constitutional charter."

On January 19, 1788, prior to ratification of the Constitution, Madison authored The Federalist No. 41 to advocate for ratification. In The Federalist No. 41, Madison stated that the General Welfare Clause refers only to other enumerated powers. He wrote, in part:

"Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power 'to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,' amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction."

The final version of the clause - "to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States" - states that Congress may provide for the general welfare of the United States. The words "the people of" do not appear in the clause. The clause does not read "general welfare of the people of the United States." Certainly, this omission provides support for Madison's intent that the clause restrict spending to other enumerated powers held by the United States.

In vetoing an internal improvements bill in 1817, President Madison wrote that "the terms 'common defence and general welfare'" do not give "to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them."

And the following was the Supreme Court of Indiana's conclusion:

"Congress ... takes no power under the General Welfare Clause, as that is not a grant of any power, but a mere expression of one of the ends to be accomplished by the exercise of the powers granted. And should Congress assume, upon its own ideas of general welfare, to exercise other powers than those granted, to carry them out, it would simply, to that extent, set up a despotism."

Source: Steven T. Voigt (attorney in Pennsylvania), "THE GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE: AN EXPLORATION OF ORIGINAL INTENT AND CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITS PERTAINING TO THE RAPIDLY EXPANDING FEDERAL BUDGET", Creighton Law Review, February, 2010, pp. 543-562 -- 43 Creighton L. Rev. 543

 

[Rinata]

Sorry lightweight....you have no idea what I have.
Don't quit your dayjob serving burgers.

It's not exactly hard to figure out. You seem to be a person of very little quality and do not want to discuss politics or exchange ideas. You want to be a bully and name call and showoff that you know all of the bad words. You're really just a punk.

funny how people bitch about others calling names, and in the same sentence call people names.

dumb ass.

You know nothing about it. When I came on here I was polite to everybody. It was the right wing nuts that called me names and cussed at me. Because I'm a liberal. So you reap what you sew, buddy. Now I treat everybody accordingly. Jerk.