Maunder Minimum

[Cardinal Carminative]

Meaningful action to keep temperatures below a certain level, which may or may not have been realistic ... we certainly haven't hit any "tipping points" or points of no return yet

Curious how you know that.

... we've changed the equilibrium level, and are moving in that direction ...

Not sure what that sentence fragment means.

Carbon dioxide only has its "greenhouse effect" on the out-bound radiation from Earth's surface

CO2 absorbs IR no matter which direction it is coming from. Yes, it just so happens that most of the radiation from the Sun to the earth arrives at shorter wavelengths which are absorbed by the surface and down-convert to lower energy (long wavelength) IR which is absorbed by the CO2. It is then re-emitted by the CO2 up and up and up until it reaches the edge of the atmosphere. At that point it re-radiates back into space. One of the key aspects of the greenhouse effect is that the level at which it re-radiates gets higher and higher and less and less efficient because of decreased gas density there.

 

[ReinyDays]

It's a strawman argument of his own making.

I posted in the wrong thread again, didn't I ... I thought there was a thread around here about the Maunder Minimum ... I'll look around and copy/paste my comment in there ... sorry again ...

No one predicted that solar cycle 25 would approach sunspot activity of the "Maunder Minimum."

Do you mean solar astronomers? ... they say sun spots are unpredictable ... they're the ones who told me that this is not considered scientifically accurate data ... the Maunders themselves were late 19th Century, fully 150 years after the fact ...

NASA is planning (it's relevant to space flight) for lower sunspot activity over the next decade because that is what the trend is.

View attachment 627030

Why is NASA flying that close to the Sun? ... ha ha ...

Sorry kids ... we just don't know that much about sunspots ... our 100 year climate averages even this all out ... we can average out oscillations ...

 

[daveman]

Good, good. There for a minute I thought there was someone outside of the standard denialist bloggers and Fox News Correspondents who could be trusted with scientific information.

No one has any obligation to validate your cult.

 

[daveman]

What you fail to understand is that we're already dead.

I mean c'mopn man Algore told us in the 90's unless we took dramatic actions right then and there by 2000 the coming heat waves would wipe us all out.

Do not mock The Goracle!

 

[daveman]

Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise.



LOL. Most folks posting on message boards questioning the science are non-scientists. They get spoonfed their bs.



LOL. Uh huh.

"Skeptics". In most cases that's people who couldn't pass a college level science class...even "rocks for jocks" without a lot of help.

LOL.

"Skeptics". Ah hahahahahaha!

What's your degree in?

 

[daveman]

OK. Sorry. That's just popular press junk. The doom and gloom scenarios are going to bad enough as it is (economic damage beyond what most of us are use to, agricultural infrastructure collapse and extremes in food prices and availability).


Why does that matter? The only reason you know about the past temperatures on earth (BEFORE human society existed) is because of the same research that helps us know that the CURRENT warming is NOT explicable by natural forcings alone. The same people who told you about the warmth in the earlier Holocene are the same people who are telling you today that AGW is real.

The reason it matters now to us is because humanity has established societies that have existed in a relatively stable climate for about 14,000 years (since the first settlements). Sudden changes will wreak havoc. And that's what we're facing. Geologically speaking it will be in the "flashest of flashes". Society won't deal well with it. Especially if we have to waste decades trying to convince the scientifically illiterate that science is real, even if they don't like what it says.



MWP likely wasn't global. The rest of the globe was actually cooling at the time. That's why MWP isn't considered a significant factor in this discussion.

Continental-scale temperature variability during the past two millennia - Nature Geoscience

Temperature change over the past 2,000 years has shown pronounced regional variability. An assessment of all available continental temperature reconstructions shows a clear twentieth century warming trend, but no evidence of a coherent Little Ice Age or Medieval Warm Period.

www.nature.com

What's the correct temperature of the Earth?

 

[ReinyDays]

CO2 absorbs IR no matter which direction it is coming from. Yes, it just so happens that most of the radiation from the Sun to the earth arrives at shorter wavelengths which are absorbed by the surface and down-convert to lower energy (long wavelength) IR which is absorbed by the CO2. It is then re-emitted by the CO2 ...

Good so far ...

... up and up and up until it reaches the edge of the atmosphere ...

This should be up and down ... the back radiation sent into the Earth again further warming the surface ... but you get the "ping-pong" effect as he energy moves from surface to outer space ... the longer the energy is in the atmosphere, the more it will add to average temperature ...

At that point it re-radiates back into space. One of the key aspects of the greenhouse effect is that the level at which it re-radiates gets higher and higher and less and less efficient because of decreased gas density there.

Well ... photons escape ... free ... not bound to the planet anymore ... and they take their energy with them ... I didn't want to tell them inflation will eat them up ...

 

[skookerasbil]

It's hilarious that you think this is some sort of 'contest'. It's like anti-vaxxers loudly proclaiming a win against science. LOL.



Not true.



I haven't paid for gas in my car for 3 years and I've only paid 2 electric bills in the past 5. If that's a joke the DEFINITELY sign me up for more of it! I love my solar installation and my full electric car!



I'd be glad to discuss fossil fuels with you from a technical perspective, but I doubt you'd be able to follow along.



Well, for folks who don't understand science that's all they have!

But the "don't understand science" narrative has been going on for 20 years. To what end? Lol....hasn't made a shit bit of difference to the energy policy-makers Voters don't give a fuck either! Which means the lawmakers don't have to care. So the science doesn't matter.

Progressives routinely spike the ball on slogans and symbolic shit.....but losing in the real world!!

@www.whosnotwinning.com

Wind and solar combined = 7% of the grid.

 

[ding]

Curious how you know that.

Because the GHG effect is real time.

 

[gtopa1]

Maunder Minimum! Maunder Minimum! EEEEEEEEEEEEEkkkkkkkkkkkk! Maunder Minimum?

Oops, where did it go?

View attachment 626601

Wow; CO2 even affects SUNSPOTS!!!!! Potent stuff!!!!

Greg

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Because the GHG effect is real time.

That's not how it works. Sorry. We are not yet at equilibrium with regards to greenhouse gas warming.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

But the "don't understand science" narrative has been going on for 20 years. To what end? Lol....hasn't made a shit bit of difference to the energy policy-makers Voters don't give a fuck either! Which means the lawmakers don't have to care. So the science doesn't matter.

Progressives routinely spike the ball on slogans and symbolic shit.....but losing in the real world!!

@www.whosnotwinning.com

Wind and solar combined = 7% of the grid.

View attachment 627277

OK. Whatever.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

What's the correct temperature of the Earth?

There is no "correct temperature" of the earth. Keep up. The key is how will a dramatic change in the climate affect us.

The earth will be fine. We might help usher in some mass extinctions and screw up our ecosystem and we will probably crater our economies and decimate our agricultural infrastructure, but other than that...

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

What's your degree in?

Geochemistry

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

No one has any obligation to validate your cult.

No validation from YOU is needed. Science and nature couldn't care less about your opinion on science you don't understand.

 

[ReinyDays]

That's not how it works. Sorry. We are not yet at equilibrium with regards to greenhouse gas warming.

Yes, that is how radiation works ... you've only a half-second lag ...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Is NASA part of the hysterical cabal? Because it looks like, in reality, the predicted warming is actually happening.

Study Confirms Climate Models are Getting Future Warming Projections Right - NASA Science

A new evaluation of global climate models used to project Earth's future global average surface temperature finds that most have been quite accurate.

climate.nasa.gov

 

[ReinyDays]

There is no "correct temperature" of the earth. Keep up. The key is how will a dramatic change in the climate affect us.

The earth will be fine. We might help usher in some mass extinctions and screw up our ecosystem and we will probably crater our economies and decimate our agricultural infrastructure, but other than that...

What is the equilibrium temperature? ... what is our numerical relationship between equilibrium temperature and carbon dioxide concentaration? ...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

That's not how it works. Sorry. We are not yet at equilibrium with regards to greenhouse gas warming.

When you say "greenhouse gas warming" can you please tell us how much "warming" is observed in a controlled setting when CO2 is increased from 280 to 400PPM?

Is there a positive, non-imaginary number that you can provide?

 

[ReinyDays]

What's your degree in?

Geochemistry

Then how is it you don't know water's vapor pressure goes up with temperature? ...

When do you apply Navier/Stokes to rocks? ...