Mattis strikes at NATO

[owebo]

Putin like :nod:

You're pleased....

 

[Claudette]

Finally! Somebody points out the obvious! Thank you, Mattis. Those who don't pay their membership dues are not entitled to the benefits of membership.

Problem is, for many countries, being a part of NATO means picking up the shit the US left behind. Look who's getting the Islamic bombings, not the US, but France and Belgium and Germany, picking up from the crap the US made in the Middle East.

If the US wants, the EU and US can become less close, and see how long the US lasts without allies.

The US will always have allies.

As for the EU?? How much did it cost the US to defend Europe during WWII??

How many men and women did we lose doing same??

The US will always have allies because we are the only super power left and they need us a hell of a lot more than we need them.

Dumbass.

 

[Iceweasel]

Finally! Somebody points out the obvious! Thank you, Mattis. Those who don't pay their membership dues are not entitled to the benefits of membership.

Problem is, for many countries, being a part of NATO means picking up the shit the US left behind. Look who's getting the Islamic bombings, not the US, but France and Belgium and Germany, picking up from the crap the US made in the Middle East.

If the US wants, the EU and US can become less close, and see how long the US lasts without allies.

Go ahead and support your argument that the US is responsible for the bombings in the EU. Because frankly it makes no sense. Clearly they can cause mayhem here, how many example would you need? You're a blame America first type but go ahead and back up your shit, if you can't you're just a fool.

 

[NightFox]

Finally! Somebody points out the obvious! Thank you, Mattis. Those who don't pay their membership dues are not entitled to the benefits of membership.

Problem is, for many countries, being a part of NATO means picking up the shit the US left behind. Look who's getting the Islamic bombings, not the US, but France and Belgium and Germany, picking up from the crap the US made in the Middle East.
.

What are you, some kind of "alternative history" buff? It was the Europeans that fucked up the Middle East in the first place or didn't you get the memo regarding what the European Colonial Powers did there?

Newsflash buckwheat , the United States is the one that has been stuck cleaning up the mess the Europeans made... AGAIN, those assholes need us a hell of a lot more than we need them.

Did you not get what I said? I wasn't talking about long ago in the past, I was talking about 2003. Yes, I know all about the Europeans fucking up many Muslim countries, among others, that doesn't mean that this diminishes what happened in Iraq and the massive impact it's having on today's world.

.

Did you not get what I said? The Europeans have proven time and again that they cannot be left to there own devices when it comes to there militaries or their foreign policy since for the last 1500 or so years every time that has been the case they've inevitably turned to slaughtering each other and fucking up any external region they can get their grubby little mitts on. The only reason there has been peace and prosperity on the continent for the last 70 years is because the United States stepped up and acted like the adult in the room after WW II and prevented them from planting the seeds for WW III.

If it weren't for the U.S. everybody on the Continent would be speaking either German or Sputnik and living under oppressive totalitarian rule, the very least the ungrateful assholes can do is honor their treaty obligations so that the United States doesn't have to shoulder the entire blood & treasure burden of protecting them not only from external threats but from themselves.

The US never went in to clean up the mess, it went in to make a mess to prevent OPEC having so much power

You're joking right? The animosity we see today coming from the Middle East was born of the European Colonial powers direct interference in the internal affairs of Middle Eastern countries and their arbitrary reorganization of the National boundaries there.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Next step on the way to causing total breakdown in Washington.

/--- Unless you pay no taxes at all - don't you get tired of carrying everyone else's freight?

 

[NightFox]

"Currently, only five of the 28 alliance members meet the NATO requirement of spending 2 percent of its GDP on defense: the United States, United Kingdom, Poland, Estonia, and Greece. "

Interesting, I'm wondering what reasoning Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Canada have for not meeting their NATO obligations, seems to me they should be a bit embarrassed that much smaller countries like Estonia and Greece can do it while they with their much bigger and more robust economies cannot.

Maybe Trump was right, time to reconsider the geometry of NATO.

"Your worst enemy could be your best friend and your best friend your worst enemy" --- Bob Marley

Maybe they don't think 2% is needed any more.

How many of them go around invading other countries to need to spend 2%?

Then they should withdrawal from NATO and shoulder the ENTIRE burden for their own defense 'cause that worked out so well the last time the bloodthirsty assholes turned their own continent into a bombed out wasteland (for the 2nd time in a Century) and then needed us to rebuild their countries and protect them from the Soviets for the next half a century.

Well this time it's the EU, who will be able to look after themselves quite easily.

The EU is just another name for the what used to be known as the Old European Nobility and it cannot manage to get out of it's own way let alone protect Europe from itself.

Along with the rest of European History did you also miss the Brexit vote? The EU is disintegrating before our eyes and it's for the same reason that Europe has been awash in blood since the fall of the Roman Empire, the Europeans are INCAPABLE of getting along with each other and the rest of the world, they always have a cliché of power mongers that want to exploit everyone in sight and eventually it erupts into continent wide chaos that spreads outwards.

The only people in Europe with any sense are the Swiss and they wisely decided to forgo joining the EU, maybe the United States should start working toward putting them in charge of Europe since they apparently don't have a need to go about killing their neighbors at the drop of a hat..

 

[frigidweirdo]

Finally! Somebody points out the obvious! Thank you, Mattis. Those who don't pay their membership dues are not entitled to the benefits of membership.

Problem is, for many countries, being a part of NATO means picking up the shit the US left behind. Look who's getting the Islamic bombings, not the US, but France and Belgium and Germany, picking up from the crap the US made in the Middle East.
.

What are you, some kind of "alternative history" buff? It was the Europeans that fucked up the Middle East in the first place or didn't you get the memo regarding what the European Colonial Powers did there?

Newsflash buckwheat , the United States is the one that has been stuck cleaning up the mess the Europeans made... AGAIN, those assholes need us a hell of a lot more than we need them.

Did you not get what I said? I wasn't talking about long ago in the past, I was talking about 2003. Yes, I know all about the Europeans fucking up many Muslim countries, among others, that doesn't mean that this diminishes what happened in Iraq and the massive impact it's having on today's world.

.

Did you not get what I said? The Europeans have proven time and again that they cannot be left to there own devices when it comes to there militaries or their foreign policy since for the last 1500 or so years every time that has been the case they've inevitably turned to slaughtering each other and fucking up any external region they can get their grubby little mitts on. The only reason there has been peace and prosperity on the continent for the last 70 years is because the United States stepped up and acted like the adult in the room after WW II and prevented them from planting the seeds for WW III.

If it weren't for the U.S. everybody on the Continent would be speaking either German or Sputnik and living under oppressive totalitarian rule, the very least the ungrateful assholes can do is honor their treaty obligations so that the United States doesn't have to shoulder the entire blood & treasure burden of protecting them not only from external threats but from themselves.

The US never went in to clean up the mess, it went in to make a mess to prevent OPEC having so much power

You're joking right? The animosity we see today coming from the Middle East was born of the European Colonial powers direct interference in the internal affairs of Middle Eastern countries and their arbitrary reorganization of the National boundaries there.

Yes, I got what you said. I just don't happen to agree with you. Is that okay?

The Europeans have been fighting each other for a long, long time. Things come, things went. America took part in those wars and you can make conjecture about what might or might not have happened in any case. However we're talking about the modern era here. Without William the Conqueror invading England the US might not exist, makes not difference to this conversation.

Am I joking? No, I'm not. Again, what happened in the past happened, however the Iraq War in 2003 made a massive shift in the present course of things and fucked things up far more than they had been. That's what I'm talking about, but you seem to want to not talk about this by going off talking about other stuff. Deflecting we call it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Next step on the way to causing total breakdown in Washington.

/--- Unless you pay no taxes at all - don't you get tired of carrying everyone else's freight?

What?

 

[Iceweasel]

Again, what happened in the past happened, however the Iraq War in 2003 made a massive shift in the present course of things and fucked things up far more than they had been. That's what I'm talking about, but you seem to want to not talk about this by going off talking about other stuff. Deflecting we call it.

Great Britain was deeply involved in the middle east long long ago, even creating the countries that now exist, so your theory makes no sense.

 

[frigidweirdo]

"Currently, only five of the 28 alliance members meet the NATO requirement of spending 2 percent of its GDP on defense: the United States, United Kingdom, Poland, Estonia, and Greece. "

Interesting, I'm wondering what reasoning Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Canada have for not meeting their NATO obligations, seems to me they should be a bit embarrassed that much smaller countries like Estonia and Greece can do it while they with their much bigger and more robust economies cannot.

Maybe Trump was right, time to reconsider the geometry of NATO.

"Your worst enemy could be your best friend and your best friend your worst enemy" --- Bob Marley

Maybe they don't think 2% is needed any more.

How many of them go around invading other countries to need to spend 2%?

Then they should withdrawal from NATO and shoulder the ENTIRE burden for their own defense 'cause that worked out so well the last time the bloodthirsty assholes turned their own continent into a bombed out wasteland (for the 2nd time in a Century) and then needed us to rebuild their countries and protect them from the Soviets for the next half a century.

Well this time it's the EU, who will be able to look after themselves quite easily.

The EU is just another name for the what used to be known as the Old European Nobility and it cannot manage to get out of it's own way let alone protect Europe from itself.

Along with the rest of European History did you also miss the Brexit vote? The EU is disintegrating before our eyes and it's for the same reason that Europe has been awash in blood since the fall of the Roman Empire, the Europeans are INCAPABLE of getting along with each other and the rest of the world, they always have a cliché of power mongers that want to exploit everyone in sight and eventually it erupts into continent wide chaos that spreads outwards.

The only people in Europe with any sense are the Swiss and they wisely decided to forgo joining the EU, maybe the United States should start working toward putting them in charge of Europe since they apparently don't have a need to go about killing their neighbors at the drop of a hat..

No, it isn't. If you put a simplistic slant on everything, you'll think everything is the same or simple.

The EU isn't disintegrating. One country has left. The US "disintegrated" in the Civil War. Sometimes you need a fight in order to grow stronger. Or maybe you missed the Civil War.

 

[mdk]

It's far past time members of the alliance starting meeting the financial obligations they agreed to when they became members.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Seems old mad dog told NATO they were going to have to start contributing more to their own defense.

American taxpayers are getting tired of carrying the load,

Mattis Issues Ultimatum to NATO

The left find it deplorable that their socialist comrades must pay their fair share.

 

[NightFox]

Finally! Somebody points out the obvious! Thank you, Mattis. Those who don't pay their membership dues are not entitled to the benefits of membership.

Problem is, for many countries, being a part of NATO means picking up the shit the US left behind. Look who's getting the Islamic bombings, not the US, but France and Belgium and Germany, picking up from the crap the US made in the Middle East.
.

What are you, some kind of "alternative history" buff? It was the Europeans that fucked up the Middle East in the first place or didn't you get the memo regarding what the European Colonial Powers did there?

Newsflash buckwheat , the United States is the one that has been stuck cleaning up the mess the Europeans made... AGAIN, those assholes need us a hell of a lot more than we need them.

Did you not get what I said? I wasn't talking about long ago in the past, I was talking about 2003. Yes, I know all about the Europeans fucking up many Muslim countries, among others, that doesn't mean that this diminishes what happened in Iraq and the massive impact it's having on today's world.

.

Did you not get what I said? The Europeans have proven time and again that they cannot be left to there own devices when it comes to there militaries or their foreign policy since for the last 1500 or so years every time that has been the case they've inevitably turned to slaughtering each other and fucking up any external region they can get their grubby little mitts on. The only reason there has been peace and prosperity on the continent for the last 70 years is because the United States stepped up and acted like the adult in the room after WW II and prevented them from planting the seeds for WW III.

If it weren't for the U.S. everybody on the Continent would be speaking either German or Sputnik and living under oppressive totalitarian rule, the very least the ungrateful assholes can do is honor their treaty obligations so that the United States doesn't have to shoulder the entire blood & treasure burden of protecting them not only from external threats but from themselves.

The US never went in to clean up the mess, it went in to make a mess to prevent OPEC having so much power

You're joking right? The animosity we see today coming from the Middle East was born of the European Colonial powers direct interference in the internal affairs of Middle Eastern countries and their arbitrary reorganization of the National boundaries there.

Yes, I got what you said. I just don't happen to agree with you. Is that okay?

LOL, You can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't involve infringing on my life, liberty or property; knock yourself out.

The Europeans have been fighting each other for a long, long time. Things come, things went. America took part in those wars and you can make conjecture about what might or might not have happened in any case. However we're talking about the modern era here. Without William the Conqueror invading England the US might not exist, makes not difference to this conversation.

So your theory is that history with respect to the European Continent and it's continuous state of conflict and international exploitation leading up to the formation of NATO and the U.S. role in the maintenance of peace and stability for the last 70 years is irrelevant to the topic of whether or not the Europeans should honor their NATO treaty commitments? Whoa.... if that's not relevant what is?

Am I joking? No, I'm not. Again, what happened in the past happened,

...... and now for something completely different and bizarre.......

however the Iraq War in 2003 made a massive shift in the present course of things and fucked things up far more than they had been.

... let's talk about WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST.

That's what I'm talking about, but you seem to want to not talk about this by going off talking about other stuff. Deflecting we call it.

LOL, Talking about the FACTS relevant to the question at hand is DEFLECTING? Or is it just talking about the FACTS that happen to conflict with the argument you're attempting to make?

 

[Weatherman2020]

"Currently, only five of the 28 alliance members meet the NATO requirement of spending 2 percent of its GDP on defense: the United States, United Kingdom, Poland, Estonia, and Greece. "

Interesting, I'm wondering what reasoning Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Canada have for not meeting their NATO obligations, seems to me they should be a bit embarrassed that much smaller countries like Estonia and Greece can do it while they with their much bigger and more robust economies cannot.

Maybe Trump was right, time to reconsider the geometry of NATO.

"Your worst enemy could be your best friend and your best friend your worst enemy" --- Bob Marley

Maybe they don't think 2% is needed any more.

How many of them go around invading other countries to need to spend 2%?

Then they should withdrawal from NATO and shoulder the ENTIRE burden for their own defense 'cause that worked out so well the last time the bloodthirsty assholes turned their own continent into a bombed out wasteland (for the 2nd time in a Century) and then needed us to rebuild their countries and protect them from the Soviets for the next half a century.

Well this time it's the EU, who will be able to look after themselves quite easily.

The EU is just another name for the what used to be known as the Old European Nobility and it cannot manage to get out of it's own way let alone protect Europe from itself.

Along with the rest of European History did you also miss the Brexit vote? The EU is disintegrating before our eyes and it's for the same reason that Europe has been awash in blood since the fall of the Roman Empire, the Europeans are INCAPABLE of getting along with each other and the rest of the world, they always have a cliché of power mongers that want to exploit everyone in sight and eventually it erupts into continent wide chaos that spreads outwards.

The only people in Europe with any sense are the Swiss and they wisely decided to forgo joining the EU, maybe the United States should start working toward putting them in charge of Europe since they apparently don't have a need to go about killing their neighbors at the drop of a hat..

No, it isn't. If you put a simplistic slant on everything, you'll think everything is the same or simple.

The EU isn't disintegrating. One country has left. The US "disintegrated" in the Civil War. Sometimes you need a fight in order to grow stronger. Or maybe you missed the Civil War.

The people of Italy, France and Netherlands are currently pushing to exit the EU. EU is toast.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Finally! Somebody points out the obvious! Thank you, Mattis. Those who don't pay their membership dues are not entitled to the benefits of membership.

The General is simply saying what DJT is telling him to say.

I hope Mattis also believes this as well.

It is patently obviously true so I hope he does believe it.

The fokking passive aggressive Europeans have figured out a way to skrew Uncle Sam and they have been doing so since the end of WW2.

Look into General Mattis's career he is not one of the sycophant brass.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Problem is, for many countries, being a part of NATO means picking up the shit the US left behind. Look who's getting the Islamic bombings, not the US, but France and Belgium and Germany, picking up from the crap the US made in the Middle East.
.

What are you, some kind of "alternative history" buff? It was the Europeans that fucked up the Middle East in the first place or didn't you get the memo regarding what the European Colonial Powers did there?

Newsflash buckwheat , the United States is the one that has been stuck cleaning up the mess the Europeans made... AGAIN, those assholes need us a hell of a lot more than we need them.

Did you not get what I said? I wasn't talking about long ago in the past, I was talking about 2003. Yes, I know all about the Europeans fucking up many Muslim countries, among others, that doesn't mean that this diminishes what happened in Iraq and the massive impact it's having on today's world.

.

Did you not get what I said? The Europeans have proven time and again that they cannot be left to there own devices when it comes to there militaries or their foreign policy since for the last 1500 or so years every time that has been the case they've inevitably turned to slaughtering each other and fucking up any external region they can get their grubby little mitts on. The only reason there has been peace and prosperity on the continent for the last 70 years is because the United States stepped up and acted like the adult in the room after WW II and prevented them from planting the seeds for WW III.

If it weren't for the U.S. everybody on the Continent would be speaking either German or Sputnik and living under oppressive totalitarian rule, the very least the ungrateful assholes can do is honor their treaty obligations so that the United States doesn't have to shoulder the entire blood & treasure burden of protecting them not only from external threats but from themselves.

The US never went in to clean up the mess, it went in to make a mess to prevent OPEC having so much power

You're joking right? The animosity we see today coming from the Middle East was born of the European Colonial powers direct interference in the internal affairs of Middle Eastern countries and their arbitrary reorganization of the National boundaries there.

Yes, I got what you said. I just don't happen to agree with you. Is that okay?

LOL, You can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't involve infringing on my life, liberty or property; knock yourself out.

The Europeans have been fighting each other for a long, long time. Things come, things went. America took part in those wars and you can make conjecture about what might or might not have happened in any case. However we're talking about the modern era here. Without William the Conqueror invading England the US might not exist, makes not difference to this conversation.

So your theory is that history with respect to the European Continent and it's continuous state of conflict and international exploitation leading up to the formation of NATO and the U.S. role in the maintenance of peace and stability for the last 70 years is irrelevant to the topic of whether or not the Europeans should honor their NATO treaty commitments? Whoa.... if that's not relevant what is?

Am I joking? No, I'm not. Again, what happened in the past happened,

...... and now for something completely different and bizarre.......

however the Iraq War in 2003 made a massive shift in the present course of things and fucked things up far more than they had been.

... let's talk about WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST.

That's what I'm talking about, but you seem to want to not talk about this by going off talking about other stuff. Deflecting we call it.

LOL, Talking about the FACTS relevant to the question at hand is DEFLECTING? Or is it just talking about the FACTS that happen to conflict with the argument you're attempting to make?

But then again the US govt doesn't seem to think like that. It seems to think other people's lives are to be played with.

I think that what you're saying has nothing to do with anything concerning your argument or my argument. I made a case for something, and you picked up on smaller points and are going way off topic talking about them.

There are debates where such things would be relevant. Just not here.

Look, you seem to be trying to fuck around rather than debate. So, until you get back on topic, I'm out.

 

[easyt65]

Mattis didn't 'Strike' at NATO - he told NATO it's time for them to start pulling their own weight.

It's about time they were told that! Someone should tell the friggin' UN that next!

 

[NightFox]

But then again the US govt doesn't seem to think like that. It seems to think other people's lives are to be played with.

I think that what you're saying has nothing to do with anything concerning your argument or my argument. I made a case for something, and you picked up on smaller points and are going way off topic talking about them.

There are debates where such things would be relevant. Just not here.

Look, you seem to be trying to fuck around rather than debate.

Perhaps you should rewind the tape and look at where all this started and then actually READ what was written as many times as it takes for you to understand why everything I posted is relevant to the "debate" that you started.

You're the one that wants to dismiss the entirety of the history leading up to the formation of NATO and point to completely irrelevant minutiae in an attempt to justify why the Europeans shouldn't be held accountable for honoring the obligations of a treaty that has benefitted them enormously at the expense of U.S. blood & treasure.

So, until you get back on topic, I'm out.

Later , don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But then again the US govt doesn't seem to think like that. It seems to think other people's lives are to be played with.

I think that what you're saying has nothing to do with anything concerning your argument or my argument. I made a case for something, and you picked up on smaller points and are going way off topic talking about them.

There are debates where such things would be relevant. Just not here.

Look, you seem to be trying to fuck around rather than debate.

Perhaps you should rewind the tape and look at where all this started and then actually READ what was written as many times as it takes for you to understand why everything I posted is relevant to the "debate" that you started.

You're the one that wants to dismiss the entirety of the history leading up to the formation of NATO and point to completely irrelevant minutiae in an attempt to justify why the Europeans shouldn't be held accountable for honoring the obligations of a treaty that has benefitted them enormously at the expense of U.S. blood & treasure.

So, until you get back on topic, I'm out.

Later , don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Seriously dude, I don't come on here for these games.

 

[NightFox]

But then again the US govt doesn't seem to think like that. It seems to think other people's lives are to be played with.

I think that what you're saying has nothing to do with anything concerning your argument or my argument. I made a case for something, and you picked up on smaller points and are going way off topic talking about them.

There are debates where such things would be relevant. Just not here.

Look, you seem to be trying to fuck around rather than debate.

Perhaps you should rewind the tape and look at where all this started and then actually READ what was written as many times as it takes for you to understand why everything I posted is relevant to the "debate" that you started.

You're the one that wants to dismiss the entirety of the history leading up to the formation of NATO and point to completely irrelevant minutiae in an attempt to justify why the Europeans shouldn't be held accountable for honoring the obligations of a treaty that has benefitted them enormously at the expense of U.S. blood & treasure.

So, until you get back on topic, I'm out.

Later , don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Seriously dude, I don't come on here for these games.

Uh-huh, I thought you were leaving? you're just a tease, huh?

"I hate to see you go but I love to watch you leave" -- Castor Troy, Face/Off