Math from a real scientist

[daveman]

How many times was the word "estimate" used in the OP?

Answer: way too many for it to be "settled" science.

Sounds like one long string of guesses to me.

Welcome to climate science!

 

[Toronado3800]

what laws of physics were broken by finding advantageous y axis units? when you plot two different things on the same graph and make them look similar by adjusting the scale it is a very powerful tool. when people see similar things side by side they assume a correlation/causation.

The basic flaw is in the assumption that CO2 can alter atmospheric temperature. It does not retain heat. It absorbs it, and immediately emits precisely the same amount. If one assumes downward radiation, one violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics if one assumes that downward radiation is actually absorbed by the earth, one violates the law of conservation of energy.

Oh my sir.

I thouht you were still trying to do the calculations to show us how greenhouse gas properties change when you release them from a fish tank which radiates heat into the atmosphere into the atmosphere which radiates heat into space.

Seems more like a hope it changes to me.

None the less, I do not want to take away your car so calm down. How about we mandate passenger vehicles and trucks average 40mpg by 2020 as a way of supporting our troops and un supporting the value of oil in Iran?

 

[skookerasbil]

what laws of physics were broken by finding advantageous y axis units? when you plot two different things on the same graph and make them look similar by adjusting the scale it is a very powerful tool. when people see similar things side by side they assume a correlation/causation.

The basic flaw is in the assumption that CO2 can alter atmospheric temperature. It does not retain heat. It absorbs it, and immediately emits precisely the same amount. If one assumes downward radiation, one violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics if one assumes that downward radiation is actually absorbed by the earth, one violates the law of conservation of energy.

Oh my sir.

I thouht you were still trying to do the calculations to show us how greenhouse gas properties change when you release them from a fish tank which radiates heat into the atmosphere into the atmosphere which radiates heat into space.

Seems more like a hope it changes to me.

None the less, I do not want to take away your car so calm down. How about we mandate passenger vehicles and trucks average 40mpg by 2020 as a way of supporting our troops and un supporting the value of oil in Iran?

s0n......time to do some research. Americans dont want gay little 2 door Specks!! And we dont want the fcukking government dictating what we want to drive.

Drive a SMARTCAR.............have fun!!!!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Even in microscopic amounts, CO2 causes an instantaneous increase in temperature; except in a laboratory.

 

[wirebender]

What you are stating is that if I shine a flashlight at one of the furnaces I inspect regulary, the beam will avoid the furnace because of the high energy of the wall of the furnace. None the less, I see the spot of light on the furnace.

Dang rocks, you really don't get any of this, do you? The filament on a lightbulb, even in a flashlight is between 3000 and 4000 degrees F. White hot. How hot are those furnaces you are shining the light at?

 

[wirebender]

"...........if I shine a flashlight at one of the furnaces"

Must be a hell of a furnace if it is buring hotter than the filament of a light bulb. White hot in fact. I doubt that his furnaces are even buring anywhere close to as hot as the filament of the light bulb he is shining at them.

This. The whole topic. All of it is so far beyond him that it is just sad. I poked some fun at him saying that it was all a matter of faith for him, but DAMN, I believe it actually is all faith on his part.

 

[wirebender]

Oh my sir.

I thouht you were still trying to do the calculations to show us how greenhouse gas properties change when you release them from a fish tank which radiates heat into the atmosphere into the atmosphere which radiates heat into space.

Fabricate much? Do feel free to bring forward any post by me in which I made such a claim. Sorry if you didn't understand what I said. If you had asked, I would have tried to explain.

None the less, I do not want to take away your car so calm down. How about we mandate passenger vehicles and trucks average 40mpg by 2020 as a way of supporting our troops and un supporting the value of oil in Iran?

Do you have any idea how many unnecessary deaths CAFE standards are responsible for? Does it even matter to you?

 

[westwall]

what laws of physics were broken by finding advantageous y axis units? when you plot two different things on the same graph and make them look similar by adjusting the scale it is a very powerful tool. when people see similar things side by side they assume a correlation/causation.

The basic flaw is in the assumption that CO2 can alter atmospheric temperature. It does not retain heat. It absorbs it, and immediately emits precisely the same amount. If one assumes downward radiation, one violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics if one assumes that downward radiation is actually absorbed by the earth, one violates the law of conservation of energy.

Oh my sir.

I thouht you were still trying to do the calculations to show us how greenhouse gas properties change when you release them from a fish tank which radiates heat into the atmosphere into the atmosphere which radiates heat into space.

Seems more like a hope it changes to me.

None the less, I do not want to take away your car so calm down. How about we mandate passenger vehicles and trucks average 40mpg by 2020 as a way of supporting our troops and un supporting the value of oil in Iran?

That's a good start. Then we also need to allow our domestic oil producers to drill here in the US. That would do more damage to the oil terrorists then even the 40 mpg base mileage mandate. Let's join together on this one shall we?

 

[westwall]

The basic flaw is in the assumption that CO2 can alter atmospheric temperature. It does not retain heat. It absorbs it, and immediately emits precisely the same amount. If one assumes downward radiation, one violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics if one assumes that downward radiation is actually absorbed by the earth, one violates the law of conservation of energy.

Oh my sir.

I thouht you were still trying to do the calculations to show us how greenhouse gas properties change when you release them from a fish tank which radiates heat into the atmosphere into the atmosphere which radiates heat into space.

Seems more like a hope it changes to me.

None the less, I do not want to take away your car so calm down. How about we mandate passenger vehicles and trucks average 40mpg by 2020 as a way of supporting our troops and un supporting the value of oil in Iran?

s0n......time to do some research. Americans dont want gay little 2 door Specks!! And we dont want the fcukking government dictating what we want to drive.

Drive a SMARTCAR.............have fun!!!!

You don't need to drive tiny cars. The Germans (who else) have developed diesel engines that get more then 50 mpg now and they are powerful. Mid size cars can get better mileage then even hybrids.

 

[bripat9643]

A buck says Roxy doesn't understand a damn bit of that.

I understand every bit as much of it as does Bentwire.

I've never seen the "" symbol in any math class I ever took.

 

[percysunshine]

Every geophysicist knows that the data was biased by excluding high latitudes and high altitudes from the measurements.

 

[wirebender]

You don't need to drive tiny cars. The Germans (who else) have developed diesel engines that get more then 50 mpg now and they are powerful. Mid size cars can get better mileage then even hybrids.

Of course we won't be using so many of those here because the kings of unintended consequences (libs) have levied such a heavy road use taxes on disel, because they couldn't figure any other way to tax truckers that not many would be willing to pay the price for disel, even if they got 50 mpg.

 

[konradv]

Thirty years ago NOAA predicted a new ice age.

Someone with an open mind would have to wonder what made them change their minds so quickly? It's easy to say the money, but people had to have some data and an indication of a trend before the money became available. Seems the skeptic/deniers' chicken-and-egg story doesn't hold water!!!

 

[daveman]

Every geophysicist knows that the data was biased by excluding high latitudes and high altitudes from the measurements.

Climategate goes SERIAL: now the Russians confirm that UK climate scientists manipulated data to exaggerate global warming – Telegraph Blogs

Second Climategate - NCDC and GISS Faking Temperature Measurements.

Climate change skeptic group accuses scientists of using selective temperature data - Minnesotans For Global Warming

 

[flacaltenn]

Every geophysicist knows that the data was biased by excluding high latitudes and high altitudes from the measurements.

Glad SOMEONE is actually looking at OldRocks' "theorem". Coupla observations..

1) The paper is no longer at the link. I was gonna comment on some mysteries in that work, but it's not important enough to track it down.. It was "pre" release and not presented or vetted.

2) It comes not from an atmospheric research group or a climate group but from NIST.gov under "mathematical modeling" ... Meaning that the important technical bits are NOT the climate science per se -- but the flailings of smoothing data to fit an equation.

3) One mystery in the work is the 3rd graph that says something about CO2 retention fraction. Showing a huge DECLINE in the amount of atmospheric CO2 retained in the atmosphere as a fraction of what was actually released. Anybody know what the crap this is? Have we saturated the CO2 concentration amounts?

4) And of course -- Percy's comments about WHY in particular Antartica for CO2 measurements. I get the fact that atmosphere may be cleaner for measurements. But the assumption that CO2 concentrations at the poles are representative bothers me a bit. Especially when you're shoveling the conclusion of correlation of "global mean temperatures".

5) BTW fellow AGW fans of alll types.. You wouldn't claim that Supreme Court rulings are beyond the ability of average Americans to understand (with a little work and cross referencing). So why not suit up, jockstrap and all, and actually attempt to work thru some of the details? Most of the time, the summaries are accurate and written well enough to get the important bits..

Sorry OldRocks.. Random selection of impressive looking papers IS NOT productive to the debate.. If you get educated enough -- you might actually pull a paper that has some major significance..

 

[skookerasbil]

Fudging the math is gay..............

 

[Toronado3800]

The basic flaw is in the assumption that CO2 can alter atmospheric temperature. It does not retain heat. It absorbs it, and immediately emits precisely the same amount. If one assumes downward radiation, one violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics if one assumes that downward radiation is actually absorbed by the earth, one violates the law of conservation of energy.

Oh my sir.

I thouht you were still trying to do the calculations to show us how greenhouse gas properties change when you release them from a fish tank which radiates heat into the atmosphere into the atmosphere which radiates heat into space.

Seems more like a hope it changes to me.

None the less, I do not want to take away your car so calm down. How about we mandate passenger vehicles and trucks average 40mpg by 2020 as a way of supporting our troops and un supporting the value of oil in Iran?

s0n......time to do some research. Americans dont want gay little 2 door Specks!! And we dont want the fcukking government dictating what we want to drive.

Drive a SMARTCAR.............have fun!!!!

Used compact and hybrid cars see boost in resale value | KMOV.com St. Louis

Read this through the AP on Yahoo also. Seems some fella actually made $100 or so pre-tax driving a Prius for a year and trading it in.

I will admit ppl, Americans included will buy a Toronado instead of a Metro if all else is equal.

Thing is combustion engine performance has improved predictably the last couple decades. I see no harm in suporting the troops by creating a "military support tax" on vehicles which average less than 40mpg in a few years.

Wonder how many mpg a 2015 Toronado weighing 3200lbs could get while keeping 160 horse. I would be faster than the 1989 version.

 

[rdean]

Section 5: Evolution, Climate Change and Other Issues | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

One right winger on this board told me that the fact that scientists believe in evolution by such a wide margin proves how "out of touch" they are with the "mainstream".

 

[flacaltenn]

Percentage of the public that really has a clue about "what scientists say" --- 12%

Percentage of scientists who say that "humans have evolved" -- 97%

Percentage of scientists who say that "humans evolved from slimemold" -- somewhat lower%

What a bunch of ditsy questions.. Humans have evolved. Yeah -- we stopped listening to Jefferson Airplane and started to like NPR...

 

[skookerasbil]

Percentage of the public that really has a clue about "what scientists say" --- 12%

Percentage of scientists who say that "humans have evolved" -- 97%

Percentage of scientists who say that "humans evolved from slimemold" -- somewhat lower%

What a bunch of ditsy questions.. Humans have evolved. Yeah -- we stopped listening to Jefferson Airplane and started to like NPR...

Laugh my balls off...................

% of the public that care what the scientists say???


Less than 20% s0n!!!!