Massive Permafrost Thaw Documented in Canada, Portends Huge Carbon Release

[RollingThunder]

Methane clathrates and climate change
Wikipedia
Main article: Clathrate gun hypothesis
Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas. Despite its short atmospheric half life of 12 years, methane has a global warming potential of 86 over 20 years and 34 over 100 years (IPCC, 2013). The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum.

Climate scientists like James E. Hansen predict that methane clathrates in the permafrost regions will be released because of global warming, unleashing powerful feedback forces which may cause runaway climate change that cannot be halted.

Research carried out in 2008 in the Siberian Arctic found millions of tonnes of methane being released[35][36][37][38][39] with concentrations in some regions reaching up to 100 times above normal.[40]

In their Correspondence in the September 2013 Nature Geoscience journal, Vonk and Gustafsson cautioned that the most probable mechanism to strengthen global warming is large-scale thawing of Arctic permafrost which will release methane clathrate into the atmosphere.[41] While performing research in July in plumes in the East Siberian Arctic Ocean, Gustafsson and Vonk were surprised by the high concentration of methane.[42]

In 2014 based on their research on the northern United States Atlantic marine continental margins from Cape Hatteras to Georges Bank, a group of scientists from the US Geological Survey, the Department of Geosciences, Mississippi State University, Department of Geological Sciences, Brown University and Earth Resources Technology, claimed there was widespread leakage of methane.[43] [44]

Yeah.. That's one theory. The OTHER one is 800,000 sq mile lake of lava that covered siberia and parts of china. Rifts and seismic activity are STILL TODAY the most likely path to release calthrates from Siberia. Ask the Russians.

LOLOLOLOL.....OMG, you're so clueless, it's really just ludicrous!

You have no idea what that article I quoted even meant, obviously.

It is talking about the effects on the climate and the biosphere when methane clathrates have been naturally released in large quanties in the past. it says nothing whatsoever about HOW the release happened. It talks about the fact that previous naturally driven releases are chronologically linked to the sudden climate changes that created mass extinction events and geological thermal maximums, and then it talks about the current huge increase in methane levels and the rising evidence that rising temperatures are starting to destabilize the clathrates under lakes and shallow ocean bottoms, and melt the poorly named permafrost. The melting of the permafrost, BTW, involves not just methane that is locked in ice but methane produced and released in the present time by the bacteria that immediately begin digesting the ancient frozen vegetation in permafrost as it thaws.

But you idiotically start talking nonsense about "That's one theory" as if they were talking about how the clathrates got released....which actually has nothing to do with their known effects when they get into the atmosphere. It is quite clear that they cause global warming driven climate changes, whether or not they were released by volcanism (your supposedly "OTHER" theory, connected to nothing at all in that article) or some other possible natural causes. Currently there is a very worrisome rapid and accelerating buildup of methane in the atmosphere resulting from human activities like natural gas (methane) drilling and extraction, oil drilling, and a variety of industrial activities, plus all of the cow farts and other agriculturally produced methane

....and on top of that, along comes this other, potentially runaway, self-reinforcing buildup of methane levels starting with the currently increasing release of methane locked in the clathrates and being produced by bacteria as the permafrost thaws. All of this methane, which is itself a powerful greenhouse gas, is adding to and accelerating the global warming effect of the rapidly increasing CO2 levels. Which, scientist rightly fear, is going to set off a kind of chain reaction or feedback loop where the methane makes it hotter and that releases more methane. This is known in climate science as a "tipping point".

Since you chose this cip to quote, this seems to be the part of that article that you failed miserably to understand, apparently believing it to be the "theory" that was somehow opposed your volcanism theory as to how the clathrates were released. In fact, it is pretty self-explanatory.

"The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum."

Here's something else to chew on....

Overall, atmospheric concentrations of methane have grown from about 700 parts per billion in the preindustrial era to more than 1,840 parts per billion today. This suggests that much like with carbon dioxide, industrialization and modernization have had a long-term effect of unlocking large volumes of methane from the Earth.

There’s still far less total methane in the atmosphere than there is carbon dioxide (whose concentrations are now above 400 parts per million) — but molecule for molecule, methane packs a much stronger punch. Over a 100-year period, the emission of a given amount of methane is about 28 times as powerful when it comes to global warming as the emissions of an equivalent amount of carbon dioxide. When methane is released chronically, over decades, the concentration in the atmosphere will rise to a new equilibrium value. It won’t keep rising indefinitely, like CO2 would, because methane degrades while CO2 essentially just accumulates. Methane degrades into CO2, in fact, further increasing CO2 levels.

I knew all that.

Nope! You very, very, very obviously DID NOT.

My comments still stand.

LOLOLOL....your "comments" are still clueless irrelevant twaddle that have nothing to do with the effects of a methane clathrate release.

It WAS in large parts NATURAL CAUSES, like volcanism and quakes and 800,000 sq mi lakes of lava that CAUSED the "natural releases".. It was ALL natural --

And hilariously, NOBODY is disputing that, you flaming moron, because those ancient methane releases obviously HAD to be "natural releases"....but that is entirely irrelevant to the point under discussion about the effect of massive methane releases on the Earth's temperatures and climate.....which is that methane is a very powerful greenhouse gas that caused global warming in the past and is currently accelerating the anthropogenic CO2 driven global warming of our planet, which will probably cause a self-reinforcing feedback loop where methane causes warming which releases more methane which causes even more warming releasing even more methane, etc., etc..

and the CO2 levels were massively higher than our projections for 2100 and YET --- the Earth did NOT commit planetcide --- did it Tink???

Oh, you poor ignorant retard!

Permian–Triassic extinction event
Most severe extinction event of Earth's chronology, ending the Paleozoic Era
Wikipedia
The Permian–Triassic (P–Tr) extinction event, colloquially known as the Great Dying,[2] the End Permian or the Great Permian Extinction,[3][4] occurred about 252 Ma (million years) ago,[5] forming the boundary between the Permian and Triassic geologic periods, as well as the Paleozoic and Mesozoic eras. It is the Earth's most severe known extinction event, with up to 96% of all marine species[6][7] and 70% of terrestrial vertebrate species becoming extinct.[8] It is the only known mass extinction of insects.[9][10] Some 57% of all families and 83% of all genera became extinct. Because so much biodiversity was lost, the recovery of life on Earth took significantly longer than after any other extinction event,[6]possibly up to 10 million years,[11] although studies in Bear Lake County near the Idaho city of Paris showed a quick and dynamic rebound in a marine ecosystem, illustrating the remarkable resiliency of life.[12]

There is evidence for one to three distinct pulses, or phases, of extinction.[8][13][14][15] Suggested mechanisms for the latter include one or more large meteor impact events, massive volcanism such as that of the Siberian Traps, and the ensuing coal or gas fires and explosions,[16] and a runaway greenhouse effect triggered by sudden release of methane from the sea floor due to methane clathrate dissociation or methane-producing microbes known as methanogens;[17] possible contributing gradual changes include sea-level change, increasing anoxia, increasing aridity, and a shift in ocean circulation driven by climate change.

 

[flacaltenn]

And hilariously, NOBODY is disputing that, you flaming moron, because those ancient methane releases obviously HAD to be "natural releases"....but that is entirely irrelevant to the point under discussion about the effect of massive methane releases on the Earth's temperatures and climate.....which is that methane is a very powerful greenhouse gas that caused global warming in the past and is currently accelerating the anthropogenic CO2 driven global warming of our planet, which will probably cause a self-reinforcing feedback loop where methane causes warming which releases more methane which causes even more warming releasing even more methane, etc., etc..

Gee I had NO IDEA that heat from GH gases CAUSED all those volcanic rifts and asteroid strikes... That's a mess Tinkerbelle... We should worry about that..

 

[RollingThunder]

And hilariously, NOBODY is disputing that, you flaming moron, because those ancient methane releases obviously HAD to be "natural releases"....but that is entirely irrelevant to the point under discussion about the effect of massive methane releases on the Earth's temperatures and climate.....which is that methane is a very powerful greenhouse gas that caused global warming in the past and is currently accelerating the anthropogenic CO2 driven global warming of our planet, which will probably cause a self-reinforcing feedback loop where methane causes warming which releases more methane which causes even more warming releasing even more methane, etc., etc..

Gee I had NO IDEA that heat from GH gases CAUSED all those volcanic rifts and asteroid strikes... That's a mess Tinkerbelle... We should worry about that..

LOLOLOLOLOLOL.....that's really hilarious.....you STILL are utterly clueless......NO ONE SAID THAT "GH gases CAUSED all those volcanic rifts and asteroid strikes", you complete moron!

As I just told you...."And hilariously, NOBODY is disputing that, you flaming moron, because those ancient methane releases obviously HAD to be "natural releases"....but that is entirely irrelevant to the point under discussion about the EFFECT of massive methane releases on the Earth's temperatures and climate"

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And hilariously, NOBODY is disputing that, you flaming moron, because those ancient methane releases obviously HAD to be "natural releases"....but that is entirely irrelevant to the point under discussion about the effect of massive methane releases on the Earth's temperatures and climate.....which is that methane is a very powerful greenhouse gas that caused global warming in the past and is currently accelerating the anthropogenic CO2 driven global warming of our planet, which will probably cause a self-reinforcing feedback loop where methane causes warming which releases more methane which causes even more warming releasing even more methane, etc., etc..

Gee I had NO IDEA that heat from GH gases CAUSED all those volcanic rifts and asteroid strikes... That's a mess Tinkerbelle... We should worry about that..

Keep arguing with him.

It's so much fun to watch him bounding all over the place.

Kinda reminds me of the kid who got his dick caught in his zipper in grade school.

 

[RollingThunder]

And hilariously, NOBODY is disputing that, you flaming moron, because those ancient methane releases obviously HAD to be "natural releases"....but that is entirely irrelevant to the point under discussion about the effect of massive methane releases on the Earth's temperatures and climate.....which is that methane is a very powerful greenhouse gas that caused global warming in the past and is currently accelerating the anthropogenic CO2 driven global warming of our planet, which will probably cause a self-reinforcing feedback loop where methane causes warming which releases more methane which causes even more warming releasing even more methane, etc., etc..

Gee I had NO IDEA that heat from GH gases CAUSED all those volcanic rifts and asteroid strikes... That's a mess Tinkerbelle... We should worry about that..

Keep arguing with him. It's so much fun to watch him bounding all over the place. Kinda reminds me of the kid who got his dick caught in his zipper in grade school.

Are you really stupid enough to actally agree with ol' fecalhead even after watching him lose it completely? Too funny!

 

[Sun Devil 92]

And hilariously, NOBODY is disputing that, you flaming moron, because those ancient methane releases obviously HAD to be "natural releases"....but that is entirely irrelevant to the point under discussion about the effect of massive methane releases on the Earth's temperatures and climate.....which is that methane is a very powerful greenhouse gas that caused global warming in the past and is currently accelerating the anthropogenic CO2 driven global warming of our planet, which will probably cause a self-reinforcing feedback loop where methane causes warming which releases more methane which causes even more warming releasing even more methane, etc., etc..

Gee I had NO IDEA that heat from GH gases CAUSED all those volcanic rifts and asteroid strikes... That's a mess Tinkerbelle... We should worry about that..

Keep arguing with him. It's so much fun to watch him bounding all over the place. Kinda reminds me of the kid who got his dick caught in his zipper in grade school.

Are you really stupid enough to actally agree with ol' fecalhead even after watching him lose it completely? Too funny!

Glad we both could laugh.

He pretty much cleaned the floor with you.

 

[RollingThunder]

And hilariously, NOBODY is disputing that, you flaming moron, because those ancient methane releases obviously HAD to be "natural releases"....but that is entirely irrelevant to the point under discussion about the effect of massive methane releases on the Earth's temperatures and climate.....which is that methane is a very powerful greenhouse gas that caused global warming in the past and is currently accelerating the anthropogenic CO2 driven global warming of our planet, which will probably cause a self-reinforcing feedback loop where methane causes warming which releases more methane which causes even more warming releasing even more methane, etc., etc..

Gee I had NO IDEA that heat from GH gases CAUSED all those volcanic rifts and asteroid strikes... That's a mess Tinkerbelle... We should worry about that..

LOLOLOLOLOLOL.....that's really hilarious.....you STILL are utterly clueless......NO ONE SAID THAT "GH gases CAUSED all those volcanic rifts and asteroid strikes", you complete moron!

As I just told you...."And hilariously, NOBODY is disputing that, you flaming moron, because those ancient methane releases obviously HAD to be "natural releases"....but that is entirely irrelevant to the point under discussion about the EFFECT of massive methane releases on the Earth's temperatures and climate"

Keep arguing with him. It's so much fun to watch him bounding all over the place. Kinda reminds me of the kid who got his dick caught in his zipper in grade school.

Are you really stupid enough to actally agree with ol' fecalhead even after watching him lose it completely? Too funny!

Glad we both could laugh.

He pretty much cleaned the floor with you.

Nope! He pretty much drooled all over the floor and made himself look like a total idiot (just like you are now, Stupid Dumbshit) who couldn't grasp that the point involved was about the EFFECTS of a methane clathrate release on our modern climate (that is already stressed by CO2 driven global warming), not about what caused those ancient releases in the distant past.....

 

[Old Rocks]

Methane clathrates and climate change
Wikipedia
Main article: Clathrate gun hypothesis
Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas. Despite its short atmospheric half life of 12 years, methane has a global warming potential of 86 over 20 years and 34 over 100 years (IPCC, 2013). The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum.

Climate scientists like James E. Hansen predict that methane clathrates in the permafrost regions will be released because of global warming, unleashing powerful feedback forces which may cause runaway climate change that cannot be halted.

Research carried out in 2008 in the Siberian Arctic found millions of tonnes of methane being released[35][36][37][38][39] with concentrations in some regions reaching up to 100 times above normal.[40]

In their Correspondence in the September 2013 Nature Geoscience journal, Vonk and Gustafsson cautioned that the most probable mechanism to strengthen global warming is large-scale thawing of Arctic permafrost which will release methane clathrate into the atmosphere.[41] While performing research in July in plumes in the East Siberian Arctic Ocean, Gustafsson and Vonk were surprised by the high concentration of methane.[42]

In 2014 based on their research on the northern United States Atlantic marine continental margins from Cape Hatteras to Georges Bank, a group of scientists from the US Geological Survey, the Department of Geosciences, Mississippi State University, Department of Geological Sciences, Brown University and Earth Resources Technology, claimed there was widespread leakage of methane.[43] [44]

Yeah.. That's one theory. The OTHER one is 800,000 sq mile lake of lava that covered siberia and parts of china. Rifts and seismic activity are STILL TODAY the most likely path to release calthrates from Siberia. Ask the Russians.

LOLOLOLOL.....OMG, you're so clueless, it's really just ludicrous!

You have no idea what that article I quoted even meant, obviously.

It is talking about the effects on the climate and the biosphere when methane clathrates have been naturally released in large quanties in the past. it says nothing whatsoever about HOW the release happened. It talks about the fact that previous naturally driven releases are chronologically linked to the sudden climate changes that created mass extinction events and geological thermal maximums, and then it talks about the current huge increase in methane levels and the rising evidence that rising temperatures are starting to destabilize the clathrates under lakes and shallow ocean bottoms, and melt the poorly named permafrost. The melting of the permafrost, BTW, involves not just methane that is locked in ice but methane produced and released in the present time by the bacteria that immediately begin digesting the ancient frozen vegetation in permafrost as it thaws.

But you idiotically start talking nonsense about "That's one theory" as if they were talking about how the clathrates got released....which actually has nothing to do with their known effects when they get into the atmosphere. It is quite clear that they cause global warming driven climate changes, whether or not they were released by volcanism (your supposedly "OTHER" theory, connected to nothing at all in that article) or some other possible natural causes. Currently there is a very worrisome rapid and accelerating buildup of methane in the atmosphere resulting from human activities like natural gas (methane) drilling and extraction, oil drilling, and a variety of industrial activities, plus all of the cow farts and other agriculturally produced methane....and on top of that, along comes this other, potentially runaway, self-reinforcing buildup of methane levels starting with the currently increasing release of methane locked in the clathrates and being produced by bacteria as the permafrost thaws. All of this methane, which is itself a powerful greenhouse gas, is adding to and accelerating the global warming effect of the rapidly increasing CO2 levels. Which, scientist rightly fear, is going to set off a kind of chain reaction or feedback loop where the methane makes it hotter and that releases more methane. This is known in climate science as a "tipping point".

Since you chose this cip to quote, this seems to be the part of that article that you failed miserably to understand, apparently believing it to be the "theory" that was somehow opposed your volcanism theory as to how the clathrates were released. In fact, it is pretty self-explanatory.

"The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum."

Here's something else to chew on....

Overall, atmospheric concentrations of methane have grown from about 700 parts per billion in the preindustrial era to more than 1,840 parts per billion today. This suggests that much like with carbon dioxide, industrialization and modernization have had a long-term effect of unlocking large volumes of methane from the Earth.

There’s still far less total methane in the atmosphere than there is carbon dioxide (whose concentrations are now above 400 parts per million) — but molecule for molecule, methane packs a much stronger punch. Over a 100-year period, the emission of a given amount of methane is about 28 times as powerful when it comes to global warming as the emissions of an equivalent amount of carbon dioxide. When methane is released chronically, over decades, the concentration in the atmosphere will rise to a new equilibrium value. It won’t keep rising indefinitely, like CO2 would, because methane degrades while CO2 essentially just accumulates. Methane degrades into CO2, in fact, further increasing CO2 levels.

I knew all that. My comments still stand. It WAS in large parts NATURAL CAUSES, like volcanism and quakes and 800,000 sq mi lakes of lava that CAUSED the "natural releases".. It was ALL natural -- and the CO2 levels were massively higher than our projections for 2100 and YET --- the Earth did NOT commit planetcide --- did it Tink???

Why yes, the Siberian Trapps volcanism provided the impetus to the release of the methane from the clathrates. In other words, the cooking of the coal seams, and release of CO2 from the volcanism raised the temperature of the atmosphere and ocean to the point that the permafrost and clathrates released their gases. So why would the result be any different because we are the ones creating the CO2 in the atmosphere? The physics of the atmosphere does not give a damn as to the source of the GHGs, it simply obeys the laws of physics.

 

[Old Rocks]

Methane clathrates and climate change
Wikipedia
Main article: Clathrate gun hypothesis
Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas. Despite its short atmospheric half life of 12 years, methane has a global warming potential of 86 over 20 years and 34 over 100 years (IPCC, 2013). The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum.

Climate scientists like James E. Hansen predict that methane clathrates in the permafrost regions will be released because of global warming, unleashing powerful feedback forces which may cause runaway climate change that cannot be halted.

Research carried out in 2008 in the Siberian Arctic found millions of tonnes of methane being released[35][36][37][38][39] with concentrations in some regions reaching up to 100 times above normal.[40]

In their Correspondence in the September 2013 Nature Geoscience journal, Vonk and Gustafsson cautioned that the most probable mechanism to strengthen global warming is large-scale thawing of Arctic permafrost which will release methane clathrate into the atmosphere.[41] While performing research in July in plumes in the East Siberian Arctic Ocean, Gustafsson and Vonk were surprised by the high concentration of methane.[42]

In 2014 based on their research on the northern United States Atlantic marine continental margins from Cape Hatteras to Georges Bank, a group of scientists from the US Geological Survey, the Department of Geosciences, Mississippi State University, Department of Geological Sciences, Brown University and Earth Resources Technology, claimed there was widespread leakage of methane.[43] [44]

Yeah.. That's one theory. The OTHER one is 800,000 sq mile lake of lava that covered siberia and parts of china. Rifts and seismic activity are STILL TODAY the most likely path to release calthrates from Siberia. Ask the Russians.

LOLOLOLOL.....OMG, you're so clueless, it's really just ludicrous!

You have no idea what that article I quoted even meant, obviously.

It is talking about the effects on the climate and the biosphere when methane clathrates have been naturally released in large quanties in the past. it says nothing whatsoever about HOW the release happened. It talks about the fact that previous naturally driven releases are chronologically linked to the sudden climate changes that created mass extinction events and geological thermal maximums, and then it talks about the current huge increase in methane levels and the rising evidence that rising temperatures are starting to destabilize the clathrates under lakes and shallow ocean bottoms, and melt the poorly named permafrost. The melting of the permafrost, BTW, involves not just methane that is locked in ice but methane produced and released in the present time by the bacteria that immediately begin digesting the ancient frozen vegetation in permafrost as it thaws.

But you idiotically start talking nonsense about "That's one theory" as if they were talking about how the clathrates got released....which actually has nothing to do with their known effects when they get into the atmosphere. It is quite clear that they cause global warming driven climate changes, whether or not they were released by volcanism (your supposedly "OTHER" theory, connected to nothing at all in that article) or some other possible natural causes. Currently there is a very worrisome rapid and accelerating buildup of methane in the atmosphere resulting from human activities like natural gas (methane) drilling and extraction, oil drilling, and a variety of industrial activities, plus all of the cow farts and other agriculturally produced methane....and on top of that, along comes this other, potentially runaway, self-reinforcing buildup of methane levels starting with the currently increasing release of methane locked in the clathrates and being produced by bacteria as the permafrost thaws. All of this methane, which is itself a powerful greenhouse gas, is adding to and accelerating the global warming effect of the rapidly increasing CO2 levels. Which, scientist rightly fear, is going to set off a kind of chain reaction or feedback loop where the methane makes it hotter and that releases more methane. This is known in climate science as a "tipping point".

Since you chose this cip to quote, this seems to be the part of that article that you failed miserably to understand, apparently believing it to be the "theory" that was somehow opposed your volcanism theory as to how the clathrates were released. In fact, it is pretty self-explanatory.

"The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum."

Here's something else to chew on....

Overall, atmospheric concentrations of methane have grown from about 700 parts per billion in the preindustrial era to more than 1,840 parts per billion today. This suggests that much like with carbon dioxide, industrialization and modernization have had a long-term effect of unlocking large volumes of methane from the Earth.

There’s still far less total methane in the atmosphere than there is carbon dioxide (whose concentrations are now above 400 parts per million) — but molecule for molecule, methane packs a much stronger punch. Over a 100-year period, the emission of a given amount of methane is about 28 times as powerful when it comes to global warming as the emissions of an equivalent amount of carbon dioxide. When methane is released chronically, over decades, the concentration in the atmosphere will rise to a new equilibrium value. It won’t keep rising indefinitely, like CO2 would, because methane degrades while CO2 essentially just accumulates. Methane degrades into CO2, in fact, further increasing CO2 levels.

I knew all that. My comments still stand. It WAS in large parts NATURAL CAUSES, like volcanism and quakes and 800,000 sq mi lakes of lava that CAUSED the "natural releases".. It was ALL natural -- and the CO2 levels were massively higher than our projections for 2100 and YET --- the Earth did NOT commit planetcide --- did it Tink???

Is someone paying you to look this stupid, Mr. Flacaltenn? During the PT extinction, 95% of the species then on Earth became extinct. That means that at that time, you would have been hard put to locate any living creatures on Earth. That means at the apex of the PT Extinction, there was probably 0.001 % as many living creatures on Earth before the extinction began. Effectively, the Earth was nearly barren of life for a while.

 

[Old Rocks]

The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum.

Yeah.. That's one theory. The OTHER one is 800,000 sq mile lake of lava that covered siberia and parts of china. Rifts and seismic activity are STILL TODAY the most likely path to release calthrates from Siberia. Ask the Russians.

OK, let us ask the Russians;




Arctic methane gas emission 'significantly increased since 2014' - major new research

Arctic methane gas emission 'significantly increased since 2014' - major new research
By The Siberian Times reporter
04 October 2016


New expedition in Laptev Sea suggests increase in the rate of underwater permafrost degradation.


'The area of spread of methane mega-emissions has significantly increased in comparison with the data obtained in the period from 2011 to 2014.' Picture: TPU

The findings come from an expedition now underway led by Professor Igor Semiletov, of Tomsk Polytechnic University, on the research vessel 'Academic M.A. Lavrentyev' which left Tiksi on 24 September on a 40 day mission.

The seeping of methane from the sea floor is greater than in previous research in the same area, notably carried out between 2011 and 2014.

'The area of spread of methane mega-emissions has significantly increased in comparison with the data obtained in the period from 2011 to 2014,' he said. 'These observations may indicate that the rate of degradation of underwater permafrost has increased.'

Detailed findings will be presented at an international conference in Tomsk on 21 to 24 November. The research enables comparison with previously obtained data on methane emissions.

 

[flacaltenn]

Methane clathrates and climate change
Wikipedia
Main article: Clathrate gun hypothesis
Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas. Despite its short atmospheric half life of 12 years, methane has a global warming potential of 86 over 20 years and 34 over 100 years (IPCC, 2013). The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum.

Climate scientists like James E. Hansen predict that methane clathrates in the permafrost regions will be released because of global warming, unleashing powerful feedback forces which may cause runaway climate change that cannot be halted.

Research carried out in 2008 in the Siberian Arctic found millions of tonnes of methane being released[35][36][37][38][39] with concentrations in some regions reaching up to 100 times above normal.[40]

In their Correspondence in the September 2013 Nature Geoscience journal, Vonk and Gustafsson cautioned that the most probable mechanism to strengthen global warming is large-scale thawing of Arctic permafrost which will release methane clathrate into the atmosphere.[41] While performing research in July in plumes in the East Siberian Arctic Ocean, Gustafsson and Vonk were surprised by the high concentration of methane.[42]

In 2014 based on their research on the northern United States Atlantic marine continental margins from Cape Hatteras to Georges Bank, a group of scientists from the US Geological Survey, the Department of Geosciences, Mississippi State University, Department of Geological Sciences, Brown University and Earth Resources Technology, claimed there was widespread leakage of methane.[43] [44]

Yeah.. That's one theory. The OTHER one is 800,000 sq mile lake of lava that covered siberia and parts of china. Rifts and seismic activity are STILL TODAY the most likely path to release calthrates from Siberia. Ask the Russians.

LOLOLOLOL.....OMG, you're so clueless, it's really just ludicrous!

You have no idea what that article I quoted even meant, obviously.

It is talking about the effects on the climate and the biosphere when methane clathrates have been naturally released in large quanties in the past. it says nothing whatsoever about HOW the release happened. It talks about the fact that previous naturally driven releases are chronologically linked to the sudden climate changes that created mass extinction events and geological thermal maximums, and then it talks about the current huge increase in methane levels and the rising evidence that rising temperatures are starting to destabilize the clathrates under lakes and shallow ocean bottoms, and melt the poorly named permafrost. The melting of the permafrost, BTW, involves not just methane that is locked in ice but methane produced and released in the present time by the bacteria that immediately begin digesting the ancient frozen vegetation in permafrost as it thaws.

But you idiotically start talking nonsense about "That's one theory" as if they were talking about how the clathrates got released....which actually has nothing to do with their known effects when they get into the atmosphere. It is quite clear that they cause global warming driven climate changes, whether or not they were released by volcanism (your supposedly "OTHER" theory, connected to nothing at all in that article) or some other possible natural causes. Currently there is a very worrisome rapid and accelerating buildup of methane in the atmosphere resulting from human activities like natural gas (methane) drilling and extraction, oil drilling, and a variety of industrial activities, plus all of the cow farts and other agriculturally produced methane....and on top of that, along comes this other, potentially runaway, self-reinforcing buildup of methane levels starting with the currently increasing release of methane locked in the clathrates and being produced by bacteria as the permafrost thaws. All of this methane, which is itself a powerful greenhouse gas, is adding to and accelerating the global warming effect of the rapidly increasing CO2 levels. Which, scientist rightly fear, is going to set off a kind of chain reaction or feedback loop where the methane makes it hotter and that releases more methane. This is known in climate science as a "tipping point".

Since you chose this cip to quote, this seems to be the part of that article that you failed miserably to understand, apparently believing it to be the "theory" that was somehow opposed your volcanism theory as to how the clathrates were released. In fact, it is pretty self-explanatory.

"The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum."

Here's something else to chew on....

Overall, atmospheric concentrations of methane have grown from about 700 parts per billion in the preindustrial era to more than 1,840 parts per billion today. This suggests that much like with carbon dioxide, industrialization and modernization have had a long-term effect of unlocking large volumes of methane from the Earth.

There’s still far less total methane in the atmosphere than there is carbon dioxide (whose concentrations are now above 400 parts per million) — but molecule for molecule, methane packs a much stronger punch. Over a 100-year period, the emission of a given amount of methane is about 28 times as powerful when it comes to global warming as the emissions of an equivalent amount of carbon dioxide. When methane is released chronically, over decades, the concentration in the atmosphere will rise to a new equilibrium value. It won’t keep rising indefinitely, like CO2 would, because methane degrades while CO2 essentially just accumulates. Methane degrades into CO2, in fact, further increasing CO2 levels.

I knew all that. My comments still stand. It WAS in large parts NATURAL CAUSES, like volcanism and quakes and 800,000 sq mi lakes of lava that CAUSED the "natural releases".. It was ALL natural -- and the CO2 levels were massively higher than our projections for 2100 and YET --- the Earth did NOT commit planetcide --- did it Tink???

Why yes, the Siberian Trapps volcanism provided the impetus to the release of the methane from the clathrates. In other words, the cooking of the coal seams, and release of CO2 from the volcanism raised the temperature of the atmosphere and ocean to the point that the permafrost and clathrates released their gases. So why would the result be any different because we are the ones creating the CO2 in the atmosphere? The physics of the atmosphere does not give a damn as to the source of the GHGs, it simply obeys the laws of physics.

And YET -- there were no net positive feedbacks present that could overcome the return to relative stability. What was released in those periods FAR EXCEEDs, the net amount STILL STORED. So if mankind lit EVERYTHING off tomorrow -- it wouldn't even come CLOSE to the IMPETUS for that subsequent warming.

 

[SSDD]

Is someone paying you to look this stupid, Mr. Flacaltenn? During the PT extinction, 95% of the species then on Earth became extinct. That means that at that time, you would have been hard put to locate any living creatures on Earth. That means at the apex of the PT Extinction, there was probably 0.001 % as many living creatures on Earth before the extinction began. Effectively, the Earth was nearly barren of life for a while.

I am afraid that it is, once again, only you that looks stupid rocks...you dearly love that old saw about the PT extinction...and how it must have been some run away warming event...sorry guy...not even close... Cold is the real killer...not warmth...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170306091927.htm

Cold extermination: One of greatest mass extinctions was due to an ice age and not to Earth's warming

The Earth has known several mass extinctions over the course of its history. One of the most important happened at the Permian-Triassic boundary 250 million years ago. Over 95% of marine species disappeared and, up until now, scientists have linked this extinction to a significant rise in Earth temperatures. But researchers have now discovered that this extinction took place during a short ice age which preceded the global climate warming. It's the first time that the various stages of a mass extinction have been accurately understood and that scientists have been able to assess the major role played by volcanic explosions in these climate processes.



Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event

Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event
The ice age lasted just 80,000 years, but the extreme cold was enough to kill off the majority of marine species.


https://www.princeton.edu/geosciences/people/schoene/pdf/7. Schaltegger_EPSL08.pdf
Precise U–Pb age constraints for end-Triassic mass extinction, its correlation to volcanism and Hettangian post-extinction recovery

Sorry rocks...once again, it seems that the assumptions of climate science are wrong...cold is the killer....not warmth.

 

[SSDD]

I knew all that. My comments still stand. It WAS in large parts NATURAL CAUSES, like volcanism and quakes and 800,000 sq mi lakes of lava that CAUSED the "natural releases".. It was ALL natural -- and the CO2 levels were massively higher than our projections for 2100 and YET --- the Earth did NOT commit planetcide --- did it Tink???

Incredibly high CO2 levels and yet, it was an ice age that caused the PT extinction...CO2 has no capacity to cause warming unless enough of it is put into the atmosphere so as to significantly change the mass of the atmosphere...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170306091927.htm

Cold extermination: One of greatest mass extinctions was due to an ice age and not to Earth's warming

The Earth has known several mass extinctions over the course of its history. One of the most important happened at the Permian-Triassic boundary 250 million years ago. Over 95% of marine species disappeared and, up until now, scientists have linked this extinction to a significant rise in Earth temperatures. But researchers have now discovered that this extinction took place during a short ice age which preceded the global climate warming. It's the first time that the various stages of a mass extinction have been accurately understood and that scientists have been able to assess the major role played by volcanic explosions in these climate processes.

 

[OldLady]

Okay, I'm sure no one cares, but here in Maine we have had such a mild winter that we didn't get frost heaves this year. The ground never froze deep enough for the frost to work itself out in March as the sun gets stronger. Usually, this time of year our cars are half on the road, half in the air, going over Mother Nature's speed bumps all over our roads. As the frost works out of the ground, on the roads it will work out first in areas where there is sun. In areas where there are a lot of trees that throw strips of shade across the road (which is pretty much everywhere up here) there will be big bumps. Some people slow down for them (if they see them in time) and others take the approach of going really fast and kind of sailing over them.
Anyway, no frost heaves this year. I've lived here 20 years and it is the first time with no frost heaves.

 

[flacaltenn]

The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event and the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum.

Yeah.. That's one theory. The OTHER one is 800,000 sq mile lake of lava that covered siberia and parts of china. Rifts and seismic activity are STILL TODAY the most likely path to release calthrates from Siberia. Ask the Russians.

OK, let us ask the Russians;




Arctic methane gas emission 'significantly increased since 2014' - major new research
Arctic methane gas emission 'significantly increased since 2014' - major new research
By The Siberian Times reporter
04 October 2016


New expedition in Laptev Sea suggests increase in the rate of underwater permafrost degradation.


'The area of spread of methane mega-emissions has significantly increased in comparison with the data obtained in the period from 2011 to 2014.' Picture: TPU

The findings come from an expedition now underway led by Professor Igor Semiletov, of Tomsk Polytechnic University, on the research vessel 'Academic M.A. Lavrentyev' which left Tiksi on 24 September on a 40 day mission.

The seeping of methane from the sea floor is greater than in previous research in the same area, notably carried out between 2011 and 2014.

'The area of spread of methane mega-emissions has significantly increased in comparison with the data obtained in the period from 2011 to 2014,' he said. 'These observations may indicate that the rate of degradation of underwater permafrost has increased.'

Detailed findings will be presented at an international conference in Tomsk on 21 to 24 November. The research enables comparison with previously obtained data on methane emissions.

Most of that is likely from sea floor thermal vents and seeps.. NOT from defrosting calthrates on the seabed. They are scaring you with 'These observations may indicate that the rate of degradation of underwater permafrost has increased.' THEY -- don't know..

The distribution of methane on the Siberian Arctic shelves: Implications for the marine methane cycle

[1] The seepage of methane (CH4) through the seabed of the world's shelves is considered to be ubiquitous. Although numerous observations of methane seepages from shallow marine sources have been reported, there were only a very few observations made over the Arctic shelves and none for the East-Siberian Sea (ESS) or Laptev Sea (LS). We present two years of data obtained during the late summer period (September 2003 and September 2004) for both the ESS and LS shelves. According to our data, the surface layer of shelf water was supersaturated up to 2500% relative to the present average atmospheric methane content of 1.85 ppm. Anomalously high concentrations (up to 154 nM or 4400% supersaturation) of dissolved methane in the bottom layer of shelf water suggest that the bottom layer is somehow affected by near-bottom sources. Considering the possible formation mechanisms of such plumes, we favor thermo-abrasion and the effects of shallow gas or gas hydrates release.

 

[flacaltenn]

Wanna fix those Methane leaks?? Drill baby Drill. Why do you think there's so much money in FINDING these leaks ???

 

[flacaltenn]

Okay, I'm sure no one cares, but here in Maine we have had such a mild winter that we didn't get frost heaves this year. The ground never froze deep enough for the frost to work itself out in March as the sun gets stronger. Usually, this time of year our cars are half on the road, half in the air, going over Mother Nature's speed bumps all over our roads. As the frost works out of the ground, on the roads it will work out first in areas where there is sun. In areas where there are a lot of trees that throw strips of shade across the road (which is pretty much everywhere up here) there will be big bumps. Some people slow down for them (if they see them in time) and others take the approach of going really fast and kind of sailing over them.
Anyway, no frost heaves this year. I've lived here 20 years and it is the first time with no frost heaves.

I tend to steer around heaves of ANY kind myself..

 

[miketx]

Massive Permafrost Thaw Documented in Canada, Portends Huge Carbon Release

"Huge slabs of Arctic permafrost in northwest Canada are slumping and disintegrating, sending large amounts of carbon-rich mud and silt into streams and rivers. A new study that analyzed nearly a half-million square miles in northwest Canada found that this permafrost decay is affecting 52,000 square miles of that vast stretch of earth—an expanse the size of Alabama."

Large sections of the Siberian permafrost are thawing and slumping (from the Cambridge University Press): "A megaslump at Batagaika, in northern Yakutia, exposes a remarkable stratigraphic sequence of permafrost deposits ~50–80 m thick."

Arctic ice coverage is at a historical low Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis | Sea ice data updated daily with one-day lag and huge chunks of Antarctic glaciers are calving https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/07/science/earth/antarctic-crack.html .

Massive Permafrost Thaw Documented in Canada, Portends Huge Carbon Release

Study shows 52,000 square miles in rapid decline, with sediment and carbon threatening the surrounding environment and potentially accelerating global warming.

Huge slabs of Arctic permafrost in northwest Canada are slumping and disintegrating, sending large amounts of carbon-rich mud and silt into streams and rivers. A new study that analyzed nearly a half-million square miles in northwest Canada found that this permafrost decay is affecting 52,000 square miles of that vast stretch of earth—an expanse the size of Alabama.

According to researchers with the Northwest Territories Geological Survey, the permafrost collapse is intensifying and causing landslides into rivers and lakes that can choke off life downstream, all the way to where the rivers discharge into the Arctic Ocean.

Similar large-scale landscape changes are evident across the Arctic including in Alaska, Siberia and Scandinavia, the researchers wrote in a paper published in the journal Geology in early February. The study didn't address the issue of greenhouse gas releases from thawing permafrost. But its findings could help quantify the immense global scale of the thawing, which will contribute to more accurate estimates of carbon emissions.

Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portends huge carbon release

repubicans are laughing now but maybe not in the future...They're so stupid that reality will have to smack them across their retarded face to wake them up to reality!

I guess the trees will be getting high on all that CO2, huh?

 

[Crick]

Have you a point? The CO2 and methane released and generated by this process is not going to do anyone any good.

 

[SSDD]

And it won't do any harm either....