Massad Ayoob on magazine limits and disarming mass shooters....a good resource...

[2aguy]

when you meet someone who believes in magazine limits...like the sad, tragic people in Sandy Hook on the committee looking into the tragedy.....you feel sorry and frustrated....sorry, because of their great loss, frustrated because of their massive stupidity in reaction to the tragedy....Masaad Ayoob discusses magazine limits and the concept of disarming mass shooters empty handed....

Disarming Mass Murderers American Handgunner

Lessons

Waiting for the gunman to run empty and then jumping him for the gun, no matter how many rounds it was loaded with, is simply not as viable of a strategy as it sounds. History teaches us another strategy works much better.

This strategy is born in reality: In almost every one of these highly-publicized mass murder/killing spree incidents, as soon as the gunman is met with return fire he ceases shooting innocent people and either is killed, kills himself or surrenders soon thereafter. Unarmed, untrained people attempting disarms sometimes actually prevailed, but oftentimes were hurt or killed in the attempt.

Those who would commit the most rigidly prohibited crimes in the history of civilization are certainly not likely to be deterred by a law limiting magazine capacity. The only people who can be realistically expected to obey such laws are, by definition, the law-abiding and not the law-breakers.

When in the wake of the Sandy Hook atrocity, NRA spokesman Wayne LaPierre said the only thing capable of stopping a bad guy with a gun was a good guy with a gun, he was shouted down and excoriated by the mass media. Yet, history and reality combine to show he spoke the absolute truth.

After the Ma’alot Massacre, Israel put armed good guys into their schools; many of them school personnel and student family members who volunteered to be trained for the job by Mishmar Ezrachi, the Israeli civil guard. Terrorist attacks on schoolchildren plummeted.

Here in the US, intended mass school shootings have been short-circuited by armed SRO’s, school resource officers from local law enforcement agencies. An increasing number of school systems are, to the horror of the gun grabbers, quietly arming and training volunteer personnel to perform the same function as the Israeli model. Discreet arming of church volunteers for the protection of the congregation seems to have become even more widespread.

We can only wonder what might have happened if the courageous principal of Sandy Hook Elementary School, Dawn Hochsprung, had been armed and capable of dealing with Adam Lanza on that terrible day in December 2012. She died courageously, trying to defend the little children and the adult staff for whom she was responsible. Her empty hands rendered her brave spirit futile, and we all know what happened next.
If instead those empty hands had held Jeanne Assam’s Beretta 92 with the same skill. If …

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

One shouldn't make the mistake of relying on Masaad Ayoob's opinion with regard to magazine capacity, as he failed to provide any objective, compelling evidence in support of striking down a Colorado measure limiting magazines to 15 rounds:

“No evidence presented here suggests that the general ability of a person to defend him or herself is seriously diminished if magazines are limited to 15 rounds. Despite more than 40 years instructing individuals and law enforcement in defensive firearm use, the Plaintiffs’ expert witness, Massad Ayoob, identified only three anecdotal instances in which individuals engaging in defensive use of firearms fired more than 15 rounds, and not all of these successful defensive actions involved semiautomatic weapons.23 Of the many law enforcement officials called to testify, none were able to identify a single instance in which they were involved where a single civilian fired more than 15 shots in self-defense.24 (Indeed, the record reflects that many law enforcement agencies, including the Colorado State Patrol, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the New York City Police Department equip their officers with 15-round or smaller magazines.) Anecdotal testimony from the Plaintiff’s lay witnesses was corroborative. Although they possessed large-capacity magazines, none had ever had the occasion to fire more than 15 rounds in an instance of self-defense.”

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/li..._032508_062614-Krieger-Opinion-Outfitters.pdf

 

[Mr. H.]

I'm a substitute teacher and a licensed firearm carrier. I've entertained the notion of approaching the school board about taking my weapon to classies, but it would be much easier just to do that. No one would be any the wiser.

Keep it secret, keep it safe.

 

[2aguy]

Massad Ayoob, identified only three anecdotal instances in which individuals engaging

28Case 1:13-cv-01300-MSK-MJW Document 159 Filed 06/26/14 USDC Colorado Page 29 of 50

in defensive use of firearms fired more than 15 rounds, and not all of these successful defensive actions involved semiautomatic weapons.23 Of the many law enforcement officials called to testify, none were able to identify a single instance in which they were involved where a single civilian fired more than 15 shots in self-defense.24 (Indeed, the record reflects that many law enforcement agencies, including the Colorado State Patrol, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the New York City Police Department equip their officers with 15-round or smaller

23

The first incident involved a gun shop owner who lived next door to the shop. One night, carloads of people drove through his storefront to steal guns. In defending his property, the shop owner used a fully automatic M-16 and a fully automatic 9mm submachine gun to fire over 100 rounds. One perpetrator was killed, others were injured, and all were captured and convicted. The second incident involved a man who owned a watch shop in Los Angeles and who had been involved in a series of “gun fights.” (Presumably, he had been robbed repeatedly.) The shop owner began keeping multiple pistols hidden in his shop. Mr. Ayoob recalled that at least one of the gun fights “went beyond” 17 or 19 shots before the last of the multiple perpetrators was down or had fled. The third incident involved a Virginia jewelry store that was robbed by “two old gangster type guys.” The two brothers who owned the store successfully defended themselves and their property using multiple revolvers (not semiautomatic weapons) that were kept behind the counter. Mr. Ayoob did not specify how many rounds were fired in that incident.

So, Ayoob identified at least 3 times that more than 2 rounds were used....Brain.....and more than 15....Clayton....

 

[2aguy]

I'm a substitute teacher and a licensed firearm carrier. I've entertained the notion of approaching the school board about taking my weapon to classies, but it would be much easier just to do that. No one would be any the wiser.

Keep it secret, keep it safe.

And if caught you could go to jail...and definitely loose your job....

 

[Gunman]

Too Late... their are probably over 6-10,000,000 ---20 or 30 round mag. in the hands of US citizens right
now... and you are really going to TELL the folks to give them up...Really...? ? ? Super Stupid....! ! !

 

[2aguy]

Too Late... their are probably over 6-10,000,000 ---20 or 30 round mag. in the hands of US citizens right
now... and you are really going to TELL the folks to give them up...Really...? ? ? Super Stupid....! ! !

They will try...and they will attempt to scare people into not using them by making them illlegal...so again...law abiding citizens...who don't want to get arrested, fined, or penalized for having "illegal" magazines...won't use them....and the anti gunners will get what they wanted in the first place.......

Background checks, gun registration, magazine limits...are poll taxes on the exercise of 2nd Amendment rights...and they need to be addressed as such........