Massachusetts Law Professor Calls Care Packages for U.S. Troops 'Shameful' Read more

[Unkotare]

[

I don't think so... do you know why people around is getting enough of americans? .

Who the fuck are "people around"?

 

[The Gadfly]

...but I and everyone else have the right to censure you for your conduct, and to raise our collective voice loud enough to drown your noise out, which I hope we do.

I don't think so... do you know why people around is getting enough of americans? Because they think you support the wars. Do we need to be marxists to be against wars and against sending valued young boys and girls to fight? Everyone can show opinions, no matter what they are. This everyone should respect. And once again, wars cannot guarantee freedom, unless you are defending your homeland.

No, Marcell; I don't censure him for hating war. I hate war too; as a soldier who fought one, I loathe it as only a soldier can; believe me, when I tell you that no one knows the full horror of war better than we who have been to war, and returned.There is no good war; it is always nasty, brutal and tragic; those who fight a war carry the terror and the horror of it with them the rest of their days. I spent thirteen months and seventeen days in Vietnam; I do not know how to tell you what that felt like, and I'm not sure I would want you to know if I could tell you, because there are some things it is better not to know.

However, I cannot simply let him take his hatred of war, and project it onto the soldiers who have to fight it. That's just plain wrong. Soldiers don't start wars, and they don't make policy, either; they go where they are sent, and fight who they are told to fight; military law and regulations leave them no real choice. Soldiers, American soldiers, have to trust the judgement of the politicians who ultimately commend them, to deploy them only when necessary. You see, as awful as war is, we have to remember that there ARE things worth fighting for, things worth the terrible price of combat. I have seen people who were not free; I have seen the fear, the oppression and the misery they live in, and having seen that, I can tell you, without hesitation, that freedom is worth fighting for, and worth dying for.

I know what we send our troops to do, far better than I wish I did. I wish us old soldiers, who have already seen war, could do the fighting, instead of them, but that just can't be. Sometimes, a smaller war now, may prevent a bigger and far worse war later; we can never know that for certain, and so we, and ultimately those who we elect to lead us, have to guess. All I do know after all these years, is that freedom is such a precious and fragile thing, that we must never risk it; when in doubt, we must act to defend it, for ourselves, and yes, sometimes for others, too. Someone has to be willing to step up, when the next installment of the bill for freedom come due. That is what soldiers do. Sometimes, we are lucky, and can deter a potential conflict without having to fight; other times we have to do the bitter business of war. I'm afraid there will always be another war, for there seems to be an endless supply in this world of seriously bad people, to whom freedom as we know it is not something to be loved, but something to be hated and feared.

Don't confuse the soldier with his war; that's what Mike is doing, taking out his hate on people whose only crime is to want to serve and protect their country. They ask nothing in return, but for their country to love them half as much, as they love it, and for their fellow Americans to welcome them back home as fellow citizens, when their service is done.

 

[marcell]

[

I don't think so... do you know why people around the world are getting enough of americans? .

Who the fuck are "people around"?

Corrected!

 

[daveman]

Haven't read the thread. Any leftist retards defending their fellow leftist retard?

 

[9thIDdoc]

Maddow was completely correct. And it's a shame you guys can't put aside your partisanship to see that.

I generally don't care for Rachel Maddow because her style annoys me. But she often is quite correct and this is one of those times. The Professor is right, too, and the only possible arguments against his position are rooted in rabid, pseudo-patriotic fanaticism.

As a protester of the Vietnam debacle I frequently was subjected to the same kind of "Marxist" and "un-American" insults, along with all the nonsense that goes with that kind of ignorant, blindly chauvinistic reasoning. But after 58,000 dead, hundreds of thousands more maimed and disfigured and enough wasted treasure to educate a hundred generations, the final outcome has been realization and admission that it was a big mistake. There was no need for us to be there. The fighting in Vietnam did not, nor could it, benefit the U.S. in any way. It was entirely without valid purpose.

One major difference between our armed presence in Vietnam and our armed presence in the Middle East is most of the troops in Vietnam were conscripted but all of those who are being wasted in the Middle East volunteered. And those who truly believed their service in Iraq and/or Afghanistan has anything to do with preserving America's freedom are either deluded, or are stupid, or simply need to justify their action. The fact is except for the benefits accruing to certain corporate interests, with emphasis on the oil industry and the Military Industrial Complex, there is no identifiable reason for our troops to be killing and dying in the Middle East.

This is not World War Two, so anyone who has had the idea pumped into his/her brain by corporate propaganda machinery that the troops in the Middle East are defending our freedom needs to do a little reading. And I suggest they start with a book by former Marine Corps General "Chesty" Puller, called War Is A Racket! It is a good beginning of an essential education and it's available from Amazon.

As for those who are wrapped in flags and carrying crosses and will attack what I've had to say here, I'm telling you in advance to go to the same hell to which you happily consign young Americans with your imaginary "wars." They aren't wars, they are capitalist adventures which have absolutely nothing to do with preserving freedom or protecting America.

Smarten up and stop jerking yourselves and each other off.

----------------

"As a protester of the Vietnam debacle I frequently was subjected to the same kind of "Marxist" and "un-American" insults"...

And rightly so. Nobody who has branded US soldiers "babykillers" has much room to complain about being insulted.
" But after 58,000 dead, hundreds of thousands more maimed and disfigured and enough wasted treasure to educate a hundred generations,..."

Isn't it funny that protesters played a morjor role in the course of the war in Vietnam and especially it's out come but are never willing to admit any responibity?

"The Professor is right, too, and the only possible arguments against his position are rooted in rabid, pseudo-patriotic fanaticism.'

Actually I have to say that you and the prof. are merely pseudo-intellectuals willing to ignore any truth and proclaim any lie that might further your idiotic, insulting, and un-American agenda. What is seriously funny is that you are so self centered you don't understand most eveyone sees right throught you. Pathetic.

 

[marcell]

...but I and everyone else have the right to censure you for your conduct, and to raise our collective voice loud enough to drown your noise out, which I hope we do.

I don't think so... do you know why people around is getting enough of americans? Because they think you support the wars. Do we need to be marxists to be against wars and against sending valued young boys and girls to fight? Everyone can show opinions, no matter what they are. This everyone should respect. And once again, wars cannot guarantee freedom, unless you are defending your homeland.

No, Marcell; I don't censure him for hating war. I hate war too; as a soldier who fought one, I loathe it as only a soldier can; believe me, when I tell you that no one knows the full horror of war better than we who have been to war, and returned.There is no good war; it is always nasty, brutal and tragic; those who fight a war carry the terror and the horror of it with them the rest of their days. I spent thirteen months and seventeen days in Vietnam; I do not know how to tell you what that felt like, and I'm not sure I would want you to know if I could tell you, because there are some things it is better not to know.

However, I cannot simply let him take his hatred of war, and project it onto the soldiers who have to fight it. That's just plain wrong. Soldiers don't start wars, and they don't make policy, either; they go where they are sent, and fight who they are told to fight; military law and regulations leave them no real choice. Soldiers, American soldiers, have to trust the judgement of the politicians who ultimately commend them, to deploy them only when necessary. You see, as awful as war is, we have to remember that there ARE things worth fighting for, things worth the terrible price of combat. I have seen people who were not free; I have seen the fear, the oppression and the misery they live in, and having seen that, I can tell you, without hesitation, that freedom is worth fighting for, and worth dying for.

I know what we send our troops to do, far better than I wish I did. I wish us old soldiers, who have already seen war, could do the fighting, instead of them, but that just can't be. Sometimes, a smaller war now, may prevent a bigger and far worse war later; we can never know that for certain, and so we, and ultimately those who we elect to lead us, have to guess. All I do know after all these years, is that freedom is such a precious and fragile thing, that we must never risk it; when in doubt, we must act to defend it, for ourselves, and yes, sometimes for others, too. Someone has to be willing to step up, when the next installment of the bill for freedom come due. That is what soldiers do. Sometimes, we are lucky, and can deter a potential conflict without having to fight; other times we have to do the bitter business of war. I'm afraid there will always be another war, for there seems to be an endless supply in this world of seriously bad people, to whom freedom as we know it is not something to be loved, but something to be hated and feared.

Don't confuse the soldier with his war; that's what Mike is doing, taking out his hate on people whose only crime is to want to serve and protect their country. They ask nothing in return, but for their country to love them half as much, as they love it, and for their fellow Americans to welcome them back home as fellow citizens, when their service is done.

I see. But, for example, the war against Iraq and Afghanistan... did it ensure USA's freedom? Let me tell you one thing: Soviet Union could have interfeared in USA policies. Even with it, USA did not make a war to them, because it'd be a global disaster. USA is starting wars against countries that would not make any difference on big decisions. These war are far more to get puppets, than to save anyone.

I understood your vision about the soldiers. They're just sent. They don't choose where and when. In the end they become victims, when back to USA (it remembers me First Blood). But people (the ones that are not soldiers) should try to stop this gov's actions. I'm sure you wouldn't like to see your neighbours dying in one invasion to USA's mainland. You wouldn't like to obbey them. And you'd hate the people from the attacker.

USA's citizens can do something for the world. You can stop your government from starting wars. For this, the world will be grateful. The responsability for these wars are not only of the soldiers, but of each USA's citizen, that let it happen.

I'd love to hear your testimonials about the war.

 

[MikeK]

And rightly so. Nobody who has branded US soldiers "babykillers" has much room to complain about being insulted.

(Excerpt)

The My Lai Massacre was the Vietnam War mass murder of 347–504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States Army soldiers of "Charlie" Company of 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the Americal Division. Most of the victims were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many were raped, beaten, and tortured, and some of the bodies were later found to be mutilated.[2] While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at M? Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest.

My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Close)

And that was not the only such incident. So how can you criticize people for being ashamed and angered by such things done in their names?

Isn't it funny that protesters played a morjor role in the course of the war in Vietnam and especially it's out come but are never willing to admit any responibity?

It would be interesting to know what kind of twisted reasoning led you to that conclusion.

Actually I have to say that you and the prof. are merely pseudo-intellectuals willing to ignore any truth and proclaim any lie that might further your idiotic, insulting, and un-American agenda. What is seriously funny is that you are so self centered you don't understand most eveyone sees right throught you. Pathetic.

I think you would be surprised at how many Americans opposed the U.S. presence in Vietnam but prefer to avoid expressing their feelings rather than confront brainwashed war-mongers who lack the reasoning skill to understand there was no good reason for the U.S. to be in Vietnam in the first place.

We were there killing people who represented no threat to us -- including a hell of a lot of innocent women and children. It is one thing to do that because one has no choice -- but it's quite another thing to do it and believe you have the right to be proud of it and expect others to respect you for it.

I have known many Vietnam combat veterans who would tell you our actions in Vietnam lacked legitimate purpose and therefore were nothing to be proud of.

 

[Unkotare]

[

I don't think so... do you know why people around the world are getting enough of americans? .

Who the fuck are "people around"?

Corrected!

Oh, people around the world! WE DON'T FUCKING GIVE A SHIT WHAT THEY "ARE GETTING ENOUGH OF," MORON.

 

[Unkotare]

I see. But, for example, the war against Iraq and Afghanistan... did it ensure USA's freedom? .

Yes. You need new glasses.

 

[CaféAuLait]

And rightly so. Nobody who has branded US soldiers "babykillers" has much room to complain about being insulted.

(Excerpt)

The My Lai Massacre was the Vietnam War mass murder of 347–504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States Army soldiers of "Charlie" Company of 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the Americal Division. Most of the victims were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many were raped, beaten, and tortured, and some of the bodies were later found to be mutilated.[2] While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at M? Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest.

My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Close)

And that was not the only such incident. So how can you criticize people for being ashamed and angered by such things done in their names?

Isn't it funny that protesters played a morjor role in the course of the war in Vietnam and especially it's out come but are never willing to admit any responibity?

It would be interesting to know what kind of twisted reasoning led you to that conclusion.

Actually I have to say that you and the prof. are merely pseudo-intellectuals willing to ignore any truth and proclaim any lie that might further your idiotic, insulting, and un-American agenda. What is seriously funny is that you are so self centered you don't understand most eveyone sees right throught you. Pathetic.

I think you would be surprised at how many Americans opposed the U.S. presence in Vietnam but prefer to avoid expressing their feelings rather than confront brainwashed war-mongers who lack the reasoning skill to understand there was no good reason for the U.S. to be in Vietnam in the first place.

We were there killing people who represented no threat to us -- including a hell of a lot of innocent women and children. It is one thing to do that because one has no choice -- but it's quite another thing to do it and believe you have the right to be proud of it and expect others to respect you for it.

I have known many Vietnam combat veterans who would tell you our actions in Vietnam lacked legitimate purpose and therefore were nothing to be proud of.

Ashamed, eh?


Harry Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing 200,000 men, women and babies, don’t even get me started on the effects on children/adults years later. Not to mention he waited three days and then dropped the second bomb. But I will bet a dollar to a doughnut you support democrat presidents and or still vote for president. Just because one person or a few did something that you disagree with does not mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[MikeK]

Harry Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing 200,000 men, women and babies, don’t even get me started on the effects on children/adults years later. Not to mention he waited three days and then dropped the second bomb. But I will bet a dollar to a doughnut you support democrat presidents and or still vote for president. Just because one person or a few did something that you disagree with does not mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Truman offered a surrender option to the Japanese War Ministry before those bombs were used. In response to that offer, and in anticipation of an attack on their homeland, the Japanese commenced a massive draft of women and civilian men up to age 60. It was estimated that owing to the suicidal propensity of the Japanese people a conventional attack on the main islands of Japan would cost a minimum of 250,000 American lives. In addition to that circumstance it must be remembered that Japan had been a formidable enemy with whom we were at war -- a war which was initiated by their attack on Pearl Harbor. And if you had been alive during WW-II you would remember the imposing fear of and intense hatred the American public justifiably felt for their Japanese enemy.

I can't offer the same level of justification for the fire-bombing of Dresden, Germany, by the Allied Forces. But the fact is we were at war with Germany, a menacing enemy which had been unmercifully bombing London and would undoubtedly have done the same to us.

None of the above has the slightest comparative bearing on our involvements in Vietnam and the Middle East.

 

[The Gadfly]

And rightly so. Nobody who has branded US soldiers "babykillers" has much room to complain about being insulted.

(Excerpt)

The My Lai Massacre was the Vietnam War mass murder of 347–504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States Army soldiers of "Charlie" Company of 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the Americal Division. Most of the victims were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many were raped, beaten, and tortured, and some of the bodies were later found to be mutilated.[2] While 26 US soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at M? Lai, only Second Lieutenant William Calley, a platoon leader in Charlie Company, was convicted. Found guilty of killing 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence, but only served three and a half years under house arrest.

My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Close)

And that was not the only such incident. So how can you criticize people for being ashamed and angered by such things done in their names?

Isn't it funny that protesters played a morjor role in the course of the war in Vietnam and especially it's out come but are never willing to admit any responibity?

It would be interesting to know what kind of twisted reasoning led you to that conclusion.

Actually I have to say that you and the prof. are merely pseudo-intellectuals willing to ignore any truth and proclaim any lie that might further your idiotic, insulting, and un-American agenda. What is seriously funny is that you are so self centered you don't understand most eveyone sees right throught you. Pathetic.

I think you would be surprised at how many Americans opposed the U.S. presence in Vietnam but prefer to avoid expressing their feelings rather than confront brainwashed war-mongers who lack the reasoning skill to understand there was no good reason for the U.S. to be in Vietnam in the first place.

We were there killing people who represented no threat to us -- including a hell of a lot of innocent women and children. It is one thing to do that because one has no choice -- but it's quite another thing to do it and believe you have the right to be proud of it and expect others to respect you for it.

I have known many Vietnam combat veterans who would tell you our actions in Vietnam lacked legitimate purpose and therefore were nothing to be proud of.

Mike, What Calley's platoon did at My Lai was inexcusable. It was also NOT typical, and you have NO right to attempt to tar us all with that same brush. That is a flat-out lie, and you know it! I didn't do that sort of thing, no one else I knew over there did either, and the vast majority of us who played by the rules deserve better than to be slandered by implication and innuendo! I went to Vietnam to help those poor people, not murder them. I've already had this discussion with Jose and a couple of others, and I am not going to have it with you again! Yes, I sent my share of VC and NVA to hell; they were armed combatants, and I am not the least bit ashamed of killing them. You want the real murderers, torturers, rapists and baby killers of Vietnam, go talk to the VC and the NVA, because that is where you will find them. I saw quite a bit of their disgusting "handiwork" and so did everyone else who was there. The vast majority of us who served in Vietnam did so with honor, decency, and in accord with regulations, lawful orders, and the UCMJ, and you have NO right to imply otherwise in the name of a political agenda. That's the truth, whether you want to believe it or not, and I really do not care, if you personally accept it or not.

 

[Unkotare]

[ the Japanese commenced a massive draft of women and civilian men up to age 60. It was estimated that owing to the suicidal propensity of the Japanese people .

That is, of course, absurd. Attempting to dehumanize an enemy during war is an understandable psychological tactic, but it's been more than 60 years now...

 

[CaféAuLait]

Harry Truman ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing 200,000 men, women and babies, don’t even get me started on the effects on children/adults years later. Not to mention he waited three days and then dropped the second bomb. But I will bet a dollar to a doughnut you support democrat presidents and or still vote for president. Just because one person or a few did something that you disagree with does not mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Truman offered a surrender option to the Japanese War Ministry before those bombs were used. In response to that offer, and in anticipation of an attack on their homeland, the Japanese commenced a massive draft of women and civilian men up to age 60. It was estimated that owing to the suicidal propensity of the Japanese people a conventional attack on the main islands of Japan would cost a minimum of 250,000 American lives. In addition to that circumstance it must be remembered that Japan had been a formidable enemy with whom we were at war -- a war which was initiated by their attack on Pearl Harbor. And if you had been alive during WW-II you would remember the imposing fear of and intense hatred the American public justifiably felt for their Japanese enemy.

I can't offer the same level of justification for the fire-bombing of Dresden, Germany, by the Allied Forces. But the fact is we were at war with Germany, a menacing enemy which had been unmercifully bombing London and would undoubtedly have done the same to us.

None of the above has the slightest comparative bearing on our involvements in Vietnam and the Middle East.

Ahhh I see you can justify the murder of tens of thousands upon thousands of innocent babies, women and men when you feel the need. Bravo. I suppose if those few bad soldiers had offered surrender in My Lai it would make it all better for you? Please.

You have taken an incident that no one is proud of and used it to paint all soldiers with a broad brush. I do not know too many Americans who are proud of what happened to Nagasaki and Hiroshima and you are one of the first I have seen in some time who has tried to justify such. Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military base with Nagasaki and Hiroshima we did not just target military bases or targets.

You do know that the committee chose those places not because of their military importance but because it would “better able to appreciate the significance of the weapon” and the committee rejected a strictly military option because of the chance of missing a small target.

As far as it having any comparative bearing, war is war but especially more egregious when innocents are killed.

 

[Father Time]

You should never allow your political leanings to get in the way of helping our kids out. This Democrat is clearly a bitter wanker. His fellow Democrats should be smacking him down. I'm surprised so few Democrats on this baord are calling him out. What's going on?

You're pulling him being a Democrat directly out of your ass. And there have been people here telling him to go fuck himself, but you only need to say it so many times.

 

[Father Time]

Anti-American Marxist-Wannabes took over our Universities a long time ago. The indoctrination of our youth is so pervasive and powerful. I'm actually surpised there are any Conservatives in America. They have been so thoroughly ostracized by the Wingnut wannabes. This wanker is just a perfect representation of what our Universities have become. It's pretty sad.

Ok I'm convinced you either didn't read the article or you're a complete moron.

The school sponsored the care packages. One(1) professor objected and the rest of the school got pissed at him.

Clearly this man represents the opposite of the school.

 

[California Girl]

About the women pics... is it about my avatar? If it is, this is not an internet girl. This is a "prefesional". If it is about the pic I posted before... so I ask you: Are u fucking stupid? Take a look again. It's a trick.

Oh yeah, Al Qaeda is one enemy. Right. Have u asked yourself about the reason why Al Qaeda became an enemy? They're enemies just because they don't like americans? And about the terrorist stuff... well, yeah, it's sad to see that there are terrorists. But terrorists are people that kills the innocent civil population. Well, you tell they're terrorists, they say that USA are terrorists. If you think twice, both are right and both are wrong. They go there and kill some civilians, then USA goes there and kills some civilians too... Wouldn't it be better to stop, so there would be no more terrorists?

USA will only have problems with Russia if the gov keep troops and install radars on east Europe (Dimitri Medvedev, with Sergey Lavrov, already warned... no one paid attention, so they went to Georgia - 1 day war)

With China... well I think the main dispute with China is commercial. USA needs to invest more in technology and social stability, than in wars (I mean MUCH more).

About North Korea, well, if USA leaves North Korea alone, they won't do anything. They barely have resources to invest on their people. But their army is big and they have nuclear weapons. It's just not to mess with them.

And Iran... Iran is much more a problem to Israel. They can't fight a war against USA.

Venezuela... pfffff... I've been there. They have barracks all over the country. But they're not a risk.

USA can deal with all these enemies, without a shot. The gov can spare the lives of the soldiers and the lives of thousands of civilians, victims of the war. I remembered a video, where an american helicopter shot a car with children and a hurt man, that was being rescued. An american soldier could not deal with this and went there to rescue everyone. He was punished... don't u think that the people there will hate even to hear "USA"?

About my education... it's good, thank you for worrying about it. Now try to speak to someone that is not from USA or England. Try some pakistani, hindu... an egyptian, maybe. They are people, just like you.

Ah, what we have here ladies and gentlemen, is a fine example of the thought process (such as it is) of modern European socialist youth; this example, if I am to judge by the peculiar English diction used, is most likely French. Let me address it.

Little child,I should not have to point out that the mountaintop from which you condescend to lecture America, and the freedom you have to do so, only exists because of the sacrifice of tens of thousands of the very American soldiers you despise, and the unparalleled generosity of the American people; otherwise you would be speaking German, or perhaps Russian, from a heap of rubble. You know this, hence that air of superiority so characteristic of an inferiority complex. Kindly do not lecture us on how to defend OUR nation; had YOUR nation been competent enough, vigilant enough, and most of all, willing enough, to do so itself, WE would not have had to bail you out of impending defeats in two great wars. Your attention is invited to, among other places, the American cemetery at St. Lo. where you may count a portion of the cost to America of YOUR liberty as well as our own. While you walk among those rows of white stone, you may contemplate just how "evil" and "selfish" the gift they gave to your nation, and to the world, really was. You might also note, that for years after that we stood guard over Europe and the rest of the world, against Soviet expansionism, until that Empire of Evil destroyed itself. American troops were your shield, as well as our own. I know; I served then.

I am an American who puts himself where his mouth and his beliefs are. When my country ordered me to Vietnam, I went; not because I like killing people, but because I believed (and I still believe) that the people of South Vietnam should be protected from communist aggression from North Vietnam. Some of the worst memories I have, are of the atrocities I saw committed against innocent South Vietnamese civilians by the Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese Army. Of that, I can only say that had you seen the horrors I saw perpetrated by our enemy, you would understand what I and my fellow Americans were fighting to prevent. America's soldiers are NOT allowed to murder, torture or abuse the innocent (the shameful few who do such things are tried convicted and sentenced to long terms of imprisonment).

Today, we are fighting a terrorist enemy who attacked us on our own soil. We will not rest, we will not waver, and we will not stop, until that enemy is finally crushed, and defeated to the point that it can never perpetrate such an act again. We did not start this war, we did not seek this conflict, but once it was brought to our shores, we are determined to finish it, and this, we will do. I am now far too old to ever serve in battle again, but if I were not, I would be right there fighting today; not because I love war (any sane man who ever fought a war hates it) but because, as terrible as war is, there is something worse than war-the degraded, cowardly state of those who surrender to evil, because they value nothing enough to fight for it.

Well, I liked your explanation. It's the best opposite opinion till now. Finally, a grown up. Proud to argue with you, folk! Your experience as a soldier and an USA's citizen is very important to me, to learn many things. But my abroad vision might be very important to you. I'll tell ya why later.

To start, you're wrong, I'm not french/english. My australian friend told me I sound like american. You tell me that by the diction, my english is brititsh. No, wrong. Maybe it's both british/american. Anyway, I'm not french neither. In the true, in the WW 2, my country's false neutrality made germany attack us. Both sides pressing hard (USA and Germany) and a neighbour country wanting to get our territory. So my liberty doesn't have anything with USA. In the true, dictatorships (supported by USA) were problems here. The last war I remember here was between all states vs just one, in 1932. So it was a civil war.

Well, about Europe and the WW 2, I can tell that England and France could not deal alone with Germany. When USA entered the war, all the countries were already destroyed by the war. USA didn't feel the worst of the war. You lost soldiers there, yeah I know. So did we. But we were not affected too. Germany made the same mistake Napoleon did: Russia and its winter. So, the main responsible for the german defeat were the russians and the english. It's just to see how much died in Russia, Germany and England. USA was as great help, because there was not that war exhaustion. Other thing is that USA develloped its industry and made it stronger in these 2 wars, selling manufactured products to the devastated Europe. It's just to remember the 29' crysis. USA produced much, to sell, but there was no more war. Then the stocks were raising fast. People were fired and so, less people to buy what was produced... from this moment on, you know what happens.

About the cold war, well let's say that it depends of the point of view. Russians would think USA is cruel. Americans would think Russia is cruel. So vietnam was pressed by both sides. It was a crime against humanity. If they'd become socialist, it'd be their problem. There would be no need to make a war because of this. In the true they were trying to consolidate their independence from France. Shouldn't USA support it? USA didn't win that war, remember? Even this way, Vietnam is not socialist today. Other stuff: Korea. It was only one, till USA and Soviet Union decided to break it in half and each one got a part of it. USA had South Korea. Soviet Union had North Korea. Isn't it hard to think that USA has the responsability (along with soviet union) of the bloody Korean War?

What was the soviet mistake, that made them fall: corruption and investments on heavy industry, but lack of it in technology and production. They could only fall. Nothing worked propperly. Chernobyl disaster was the fuse to this great fall. But, does it mean that the people was not happy, even under soviet domains? No! It's propaganda, you know. You thing they were sad. They used to think you were sad too. Today we don't need it anymore. We already know that communism won't lead anywhere, just like capitalism, in the way that it is. In communism, if you are unemployed, you may be supported by the government, the main part of the ideas are the worker, but you can't have private properties. In capitalism, you can have as many properties as you can buy, but if you're fired... you're on your own, and the main idea is profit, not the workers. So why don't we measure both? Can u imagine it? I don't know. I think it'd be perfect (or almost).

Ok, let's stop talking about this past. USA Today! Ok... What's the problem now? Terrorists! Well, most of them have some politic cause. If USA keeps itself away from their lands (much of them from middle east and africa, as you said), there will be no more terrorism agains USA. Did u ever see a terrorist group from allies, fight USA? No! Only from the enemies! So, terrorists are more like armies, fighting a war. If there is no war, no invasion, there are no terrorists. No one wants to die in wars. Do u think that they like it?

And about the attack on New York and Bin Laden... well, have you read documents saying that that attack was sefl terrorism? Did u really believe that the army would kill Osama and then just throw his body in the ocean? Bin Laden declared himself innocent and told that apparently someone did that for particular reasons. He was on Paquistan when the attack happened. USA knew it. He was a sick man, he needed to be in the hospital, always. How could he survive so long? News from a newspaper from middle east showed that by the end of 2001, Osama died of his sickness. USA kept him alive, pursed him for years and finally, when found him... threw the body in the sea. Stranger, isn't it? About the pentagon attack, by a Boeing 747-400... well, I saw many videos and pictures and I couldn't see even a piece of the turbines and the fuselage. Even the worst accidents leave pieces of the jet, spread over the place where it happened. The pentagon building had a big whole, but no clue of a whole from the 4 turbines (they are heavier than the command cabin) wholes. Was it really a terrorist attack by plane? What I think about it is that USA's people should be warned about its government.

Spoiler

I like USA's people and think you are wonderful. But the government always starts new problems to you all.

As I said I have nothing against the soldiers. They are as victims as the invaded people. It must stop. USA must have a mighty army, but can't still declaring wars. This is the point, do u understand?

Your 'English' is neither UK English or American English. It is not your native language. You most certainly do not write like a native of either of those great countries. You write English like a French national. Just sayin'.

 

[California Girl]

It seems these vacuous laments and empty ad hominem nonsense is all you right-wing onanists are capable of. Not a substantive thought from the lot of you. Just insults and oblique, pointless, partisan references.

Inasmuch as this is a discussion forum, not a schoolyard, how about telling us what you're upset about and what you disagree with. Think you can do that like an intelligent grown-up?

Suggestion: Considering the present condition of American society, the potential economic collapse and the reason for it, why do you suppose drifting in the direction of socialism is a bad thing? What is it about socialist policies that worries you so? Are you among the One Percent? Or have Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly taken control of what once was a middle class mind?

Back on topic, what this "professor" in the article said was vile. Whether you agree with our wars overseas or our reasons for being there, you cannot contest that our brave troops have sacrificed so much, and sometimes with their lives. Challenge the govt policies, the decisions that got us bogged down in Iraq, but don't target "care packages" to the troops. This guy was making a cheap shot, to those who were least deserving of it, and in a way to give publicity to his pathetic self.

Yeah, the gov should give them this packages. They can spend so much on machines... they sould invest on the soldiers too. But I think that someone should think about the population that suffers with the war. So everyone can be "better".

They do 'invest' in our soldiers. The 'care packages' provide those of us who appreciate their service to demonstrate that appreciation. If you've never served, or had family who serve, then perhaps you wouldn't understand it. But most Americans support our military - whether or not we agree with the fight. We differentiate between the politics of a war and those individuals who volunteer to defend our Constitution. Perhaps we're just smarter than you.

 

[Unkotare]

Your 'English' is neither UK English or American English. It is not your native language. You most certainly do not write like a native of either of those great countries. You write English like a French national. Just sayin'.

Or maybe like a native Portuguese speaker.

 

[9thIDdoc]

"The My Lai Massacre was the Vietnam War mass murder of 347–504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, by United States Army soldiers of "Charlie" Company of 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade of the Americal Division. Most of the victims were women, children (including babies), and elderly people."

I'll see your My Lai and raise you Hue. The vast majority of atrocities commited in Vietnam were commited by Vietnamese.

The Huế Massacre (Vietnamese: Thảm sát tại Huế Tết Mậu Thân) is the name given to the summary executions and mass killings perpetrated by the Viet Cong and North Vietnam during their capture, occupation and later withdrawal from the city of Huế during the Tet Offensive, considered one of the longest and bloodiest battles of the Vietnam War.

During the months and years that followed the Battle of Huế, which began on January 31, 1968 and lasted a total of 28 days, dozens of mass graves were discovered in and around Huế containing 2,800 to 6,000 civilians and prisoners of war.[1] Victims were found bound, tortured, and sometimes apparently buried alive.

A number of U.S. and South Vietnamese authorities as well a number of journalists who investigated the events took the discoveries, along with other evidence, as proof that a large-scale atrocity had been carried out in and around Huế during its four-week occupation. The killings were perceived as part of a large-scale purge of a whole social stratum, including anyone friendly to American forces in the region.