Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING

[2aguy]

More gun crime in Australia.....

1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.

You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns? AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then. You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place. If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.

 

[2aguy]

Yeah, and our point is that it isn't the laws that are the problem.

Yes. Your point is bullshit. The laws are the problem because you won't adjust them to compensate for easy access to handguns and military style semi automatics because you are too selfish.

There are no military style semi auto,attic rifles, there are just semi automatic rifles....
.a military style rifle will have the ability to fire a 3 round burst or fully automatic, civilian semi automatic rifles don't have that ability....

And again....Australia had low gun murder before they took their guns.......and now like Britain, their gun crime rate is going up...because their culture is changing, not because their people had guns.

 

[rightwinger]

I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings

 

[2aguy]

I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings

If we ended democrat gun free zones we would.

 

[Crepitus]

You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot

‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years

An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.

Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.

The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.

“ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”

[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]

Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.

Lol, 7 people killed this the worst mass shooting in 22 years but gun control is failing!

Where do these dingbats come from?

 

[Crepitus]

Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING

One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.

According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...

Straw man alert! Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.

You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.

 

[Crepitus]

Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING

One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.

According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...

I've never heard anyone say gun control means zero gun violence actually. Glad you are still being dishonest!

You’re the ones that said more frivolous gun control laws means no violent crime...

Buzzzt!!! Second straw man alert! Nobody but followers of the NRA cult says that.

Again I say "you idjits need to memorise some new talking points".

 

[Crepitus]

More gun crime in Australia.....

1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.

People kill people not firearms… Shit for brains

Do you fell better about yourself when you call people names? Does it make you feel tough? Does it help you compensate for your mommy not loving you enough? Doesn't help you forget about how your daddy snuck into your room at night? What is it with you?

 

[Crepitus]

The reason their gun crime is lower, is because their gun crime has always been lower, for decades on end, even before all your supposedly amazing gun laws were put in place.

Because handguns were strictly regulated for decades on end.

You don’t understand the issue, dip shit

Musta been your daddy and your uncle.

 

[Crepitus]

You can ban assault weapons but an idiot killing people and burning their college is still an idiot

‘It’s just horrifying’: Seven killed in Australia’s deadliest mass shooting in 22 years

An Australian community is reeling from the deadliest mass shooting the country has seen in more than 20 years, after seven people, including four children, were discovered dead on a rural property near Margaret River.

Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.

The shooting has rattled Australia, where lawmakers passed some of the world's most restrictive gun-control laws after a 1996 massacre in Tasmania.

“ 'Shocking' is about the only word,” resident Felicity Haynes told 9 News Australia. “I just feel sick to the stomach. That couldn't happen here.”

[‘AMERICAN NIGHTMARE’: Australians react to fatal police shooting in ‘very risky’ United States]

Western Australia police commissioner Chris Dawson said at a news conference that officers responded to the scene about 5:15 a.m. and discovered the seven bodies. Two adults were outside, and five other victims were inside the home in Osmington, a small town nestled in Western Australia's southwest corner.

Now for the rest of the Story. What was the Weapon and who or what stopped the killing. You didn't finish the story.

Murder/suicide. The shooter stopped himself. No mention of what kinda gun.

Four children, three adults found shot dead in Margaret River murder-suicide

Google is your friend, you coulda figured this out for yourself.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

More gun crime in Australia.....

1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.

You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns? AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then. You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place. If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.

Here is your chance. You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster. Tag, yer it.

 

[2aguy]

Mass shooting in Australia, gun control there is FAILING

One can tell that because the US has a firearm homicide rate 25 times greater than in Australia.

According to you shit stains gun control means zero gun violence, Fortunately anti-gun nutters have no credibility...

Straw man alert! Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.

You idjits need to memorise some new talking points.

Everybody but rwnj NRA cultists knows that gun control doesn't mean 0 shootings, it means less shootings.


Except it isn't working that way in Britain or Australia, doofus. In both countries gun crime is going up, not down, meanwhile, in the United States....gun crime, gun murder and violent crime is going down, while more Americans are owning and actually carrying guns.....

Your entire point is wrong......gun control in Britain? More gun crime. Gun control in Australia? More gun crime.

More people carrying guns in the U.S.? Gun murder down, gun crime down, violent crime down.

 

[2aguy]

More gun crime in Australia.....

1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.

You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns? AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then. You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place. If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.

Here is your chance. You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster. Tag, yer it.

Here.......2 studies linked in the article......

Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work | National Review

University of Melbourne researchers Wang-Sheng Lee and Sandy Suardi concluded their 2008 report on the matter with the statement, “There is little evidence to suggest that [the Australian mandatory gun-buyback program] had any significant effects on firearm homicides.”

“Although gun buybacks appear to be a logical and sensible policy that helps to placate the public’s fears,” the reported continued, “the evidence so far suggests that in the Australian context, the high expenditure incurred to fund the 1996 gun buyback has not translated into any tangible reductions in terms of firearm deaths.”

A 2007 report, “Gun Laws and Sudden Death: Did the Australian Firearms Legislation of 1996 Make a Difference?” by Jeanine Baker and Samara McPhedran similarly concluded that the buyback program did not have a significant long-term effect on the Australian homicide rate.

The Australian gun-homicide rate had already been quite low and had been steadily falling in the 15 years prior to the Port Arthur massacre. And while the mandatory buyback program did appear to reduce the rate of accidental firearm deaths, Baker and McPhedran found that “the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia.”

 

[2aguy]

More gun crime in Australia.....

1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.

You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns? AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then. You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place. If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.

Here is your chance. You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster. Tag, yer it.

Here is a look at another detailed study on Australian gun crime...I am going to quote a lot of it because the link may not always take you to his particular post...

John Lott's Website: Some notes on claims about Australia's crime rates

Of course, the Huffington Post ignores that more sophisticated research finds no benefit from these laws.

A paper by Lee and Suardi in Economic Inquiry in 2009 does an excellent job of looking at the issue.


Here is the actual data from Australia.

First note that gun ownership exhibits a very interesting pattern that isn't often acknowledged. There was a large gun buyback in 1996 and 1997 that reduced gun ownership from 3.2 to 2.2 million guns.

But immediately after that gun ownership increased dramatically and isessentially back to where it was before the buyback.

Why is that important?

Well, if it is the number of guns that is important, you should initially see a large drop in suicides or crimes and then see it increasing. Yet, in none of these data series do you observe that pattern.


For example, homicides didn't fall until eight years after the laws. It is not clear what theory they have for why the long delay would occur. Nor can I even find an acknowledgment of that long lag in the cited literature. A more natural explanation for the drop at the eight year point would be the substantial increases in police forces that occurred at that time.




Crime can change for lots of reasons besides changes in gun control laws. One way to get a handle on this is to see how Australian homicides are changing relative to other crime rates. A single continuous crime data series isn't available, but the two diagrams below show how homicides is falling almost continuously as a fraction of violent crime. If anything, the drop in homicides relative to overall violent crime was biggest in the 1970s.




See also homicides relative to overall crime. Again, it is very hard to see any benefit from the gun control laws.

UPDATE: Comments on the Huffington Post Show today. Purely cross-sectional evidence in references to the UK, Germany, etc. doesn't mention that homicide rates were even lower relative to the US before they had gun control. The graph that they showed across countries (at about 12:55) makes it look like the US has a similar murder rate to other countries such as Russia, Mexico, and other South American countries. For further information see here and here.

 

[2aguy]

More gun crime in Australia.....

1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.

You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns? AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then. You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place. If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.

Here is your chance. You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster. Tag, yer it.

For your convenience......

http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Baker and McPhedran 2007.pdf

Conclusions Examination of the long-term trends indicated that the only category of sudden death that may have been influenced by the introduction of the NFA was firearm suicide
------

However, this effect must be considered in light of the findings for suicide (non-firearm). Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buy-back and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia. The introduction of the NFA appeared to have a negative effect on accidental firearm death. However, over the time period investigated, there was a relatively small number of accidental deaths per annum, with substantial variability. Any conclusions regarding the effect of the NFA on accidental firearm death should be approached with caution

 

[2aguy]

More gun crime in Australia.....

1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.

You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns? AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then. You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place. If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.

Here is your chance. You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster. Tag, yer it.

And the other paper from the link.....

http://c8.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/Lee and Suardi 2008.pdf

In this paper, we re-analyze the same data on firearm deaths used in previous research, using tests for unknown structural breaks as a means to identifying impacts of the NFA. The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates.
-------

6. Conclusion

This paper takes a closer look at the effects of the National Firearms Agreement on gun deaths. Using a battery of structural break tests, there is little evidence to suggest that it had any significant effects on firearm homicides and suicides. In addition, there also does not appear to be any substitution effects – that reduced access to firearms may have led those bent on committing homicide or suicide to use alternative methods.

 

[rightwinger]

I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings

If we ended democrat gun free zones we would.

So Australia bans guns and goes 22 years between mass shootings
We keep our guns and can’t go 22 weeks

 

[2aguy]

I wish we could go 22 years between mass shootings

If we ended democrat gun free zones we would.

So Australia bans guns and goes 22 years between mass shootings
We keep our guns and can’t go 22 weeks

Wrong, they didn't go 22 years between mass shootings, they have had over a dozen public shootings. The only reason they aren't mass public shootings is the shooter......who had a gun in a public space and was shooting people.....didn't kill 4 or more people. The actual standard according to obama was 3 people, and they didn't even kill that many in their public shootings....

Explain to us how these public shootings were kept from happening by the Australian gun control laws...had the shooters simply decided to shoot and kill more people, you couldn't keep lying about Australian gun control laws...

Which Australian gun control laws kept these shooters from walking into an Australian elementary school or high school? Or a mall...oh, some of them did do just those things, they just didn't manage to murder 4 people......

Timeline of major crimes in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• 16 January 1998 to 15 June 2009 – Melbourne gangland killings – A series of 35 murders of crime figures and their associates that began with the slaying of Alphonse Gangitano in his home, most likely by Jason Moran, the latest victim being Des Moran who was murdered in Ascot Vale on 15 June 2009.

• 
  
• 16 August 1998 – Victorian police officers Gary Silk and Rodney Miller were shot dead in an ambush by Bendali Debs and Jason Joseph Roberts in the Moorabbin Police murders.

• 3 August 1999 – La Trobe University shooting – Jonathan Brett Horrocks walked into the cafeteria in La Trobe university in Melbourne Victoria armed with a 38 caliber revolver handgun and opened fire killing Leon Capraro the boss and manager off the cafeteria and wounding a woman who was a student at the university.

• 13 March 2000 – Millewa State Forest Murders – Barbara and Stephen Brooks and Stacie Willoughby were found dead, all three having been shot execution style and left in the forest.[60][61]

• 26 May 2002 – A Vietnamese man walked into a Vietnamese wedding reception in Cabramatta Sydney, New South Wales armed with a handgun and opened fire wounding seven people.
• • 14 October 2002 – Dr. Margret Tobin, the South Australian head of Mental Health Services, was shot dead by Jean Eric Gassy as she walked out of a lift in her office building.
  • 21 October 2002 – Monash University shooting – Huan Xiang opened fire in a tutorial room, killing two and injuring five.
  • 25 October 2003 – Greenacre double murder – A man and a woman are shot dead in a house in the suburb of Greenacre, Sydney which was the result of a feud between two Middle Eastern crime families, 24-year-old Ziad Abdulrazak was shot 10 times in the chest and head and 22-year-old Mervat Hamka was shot twice in the neck while she slept in her bedroom, up to 100 shots were fired into the house from four men who were later arrested and convicted of the murders.
  • 26 July 2004 – Security guard Karen Brown shot dead armed robber William Aquilina in a Sydney carpark after he violently bashed her and stole the hotel's takings. Brown was charged with murder but acquitted on the grounds of self-defence.[66][67]

• 18 June 2007 – Melbourne CBD shooting – Christopher Wayne Hudson opened fire on three people, killing one and seriously wounding two others who intervened when Hudson was assaulting his girlfriend at a busy Melbourne intersection during the morning peak. He gave himself up to police in Wallan, Victoria on 20 June.[71]

• 10 April 2010 – Rajesh Osborne shot and killed his three children, 12 year-old Asia, 10-year-old Jarius and 7-year-old Grace before killing himself in Roxburgh, Victoria.[citation needed]

• 28 April 2011 – 2011 Hectorville siege – Donato Anthony Corbo shot dead Kobus and Annetjie Snyman and their son-in-law Luc Mombers and seriously wounded Mr Mombers' 14-year-old son Marcel and a police officer at Hectorville, South Australia before being arrested after an eight-hour stand off.
• 1

• 29 January 2012 – Giovanni Focarelli, son of Comancheros gang member Vincenzo Focarelli, was shot dead whilst Vincenzo survived the fourth attempt on his life.[79]

• 28 April 2012 – A man opened fire in a busy shopping mall in Robina on the Gold Coast shooting Bandidos bikie Jacques Teamo. A woman who was an innocent bystander was also injured from a shotgun blast to the leg. Neither of the victims died, but the incident highlighted the recent increase in gun crime across major Australian cities including Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide.[citation needed]

• 23 May 2012 – Christopher 'Badness' Binse, a career criminal well known to police, was arrested after a 44-hour siege at an East Keilor home in Melbourne's north west. During the siege, Binse fired several shots at police and refused to co-operate with negotiators; eventually tear gas had to be used to force him out of the house, at which point he refused to put down his weapon and was then sprayed with a volley of non-lethal bullets.[citation needed]

• 15 December 2012 – Aaron Carlino murdered drug dealer Stephen Cookson in his East Perth home by shooting him twice in the head and then he cut up and dismembered his body. He buried his arms legs and torso in the backyard of his house and he wrapped his head in a plastic bag and dumped it on Rottnest Island. The head of Cookson was later found washed up on Rottnest Island by an 11-year-old girl. Carlino was convicted of the murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[citation needed]
• 8 March 2013 – Queen Street mall siege – Lee Matthew Hiller entered the shopping mall on Queen Street Brisbane Queensland armed with a revolver and threatened shoppers and staff with the revolver, causing a 90-minute siege which ended when Hiller was shot and wounded in the arm by a police officer from the elite Specialist Emergency Response Team. Hiller was then later taken to hospital and was treated for his injury; he pleaded gulity to 20 charges and was sentenced to four-and-a-half years in jail with a non-parole period of two years and three months.[citation needed]
• 29 July 2013 – Two bikie gang associates, Vasko Boskovski and Bassil Hijazi were shot dead in two separate shooting incidents minutes apart in South West Sydney. The previous week Bassil Hijazi had survived a previous attempt against his life after he was shot inside his car.[citation needed]

• 9 September 2014 – Lockhart massacre – Geoff Hunt shot and killed his wife, Kim, his 10-year-old son Fletcher, and his daughters Mia, eight and Phoebe, six before killing himself on a farm in Lockhart in the Riverina district near Wagga Wagga New South Wales. The body of Geoff Hunt and a firearm are later found in a dam on the farm by police divers and a suicide note written by Geoff Hunt is also found inside the house on the farm.[citation needed]

• 22 October 2014 – Wedderburn shootings – Ian Jamieson shot dead Peter Lockhart, Peter's wife Mary and Mary's son Greg Holmes on two farm properties in Wedderburn, Victoria over a property dispute. Jamieson surrendered to police after a three-and-a-half hour siege.[citation needed]
• 7 November 2014 – Jordy Brook carjacked a Channel 7 news cameraman at gun point during a crime spree on the Sunshine Coast, Queensland. He was later captured and arrested by police after luring police on a high speed chase and crashing the car.[citation needed]

• 12 November 2014 – Jamie Edwards and Joelene Joyce a married couple who were drug dealers are found shot dead in a car on a highway in the town of Moama, New South Wales.[86]

• 15 December 2014 – 2014 Sydney hostage crisis – Seventeen people were taken hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, Sydney by Man Haron Monis. The hostage crisis was resolved in the early hours of 16 December, sixteen hours after it commenced, when armed police stormed the premises. Monis and two hostages were killed in the course of the crisis.[87]

• 27 June 2015 – Hermidale triple murder – the bodies of three people, two men and a woman are found shot dead on a property in a rural farming community in the town of Hermidale west of Nyngan, the bodies of 28-year-old Jacob Cumberland his father 59-year-old Stephen Cumberland and a 36-year-old woman were found with gun shot wounds, the body of Jacob Cumberland was found on the drive way of the property, the body of the 36-year-old woman was found in the backyard of the property and the body of Stephen Cumberland was found in a burnt out caravan on the property. 61-year-old Allan O'Connor is later arrested and charged with the murders.

• 10 September 2015 – A 49-year-old woman is shot dead in a Mc Donald's restaurant in Gold Coast by her 57-year-old ex partner, who then turned the gun on himself afterwards and shot himself dead.
• 2 October 2015 - 2015 Parramatta shooting On 2 October 2015, Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar, a 15-year-old boy, shot and killed Curtis Cheng, an unarmed police civilian finance worker, outside the New South Wales Police Force headquarters in Parramatta, Australia. Jabar was subsequently shot and killed by special constables who were protecting the police station.

 

[2aguy]

More gun crime in Australia.....

1/25th the rate of firearm homicides in the US. That must be because of the lack of gun control.

You guys always go to the gun murder rate.....what does that have to do with the fact that the actual gun crime rate is going up...after they banned and confiscated guns? AUstralia had a low murder rate before they banned guns...their criminals weren't murdering people even then. You have to murder as the standard because otherwise the truth is easy to see....taking guns from law abiding gun owners does not impact gun crime.......which is your whole excuse for taking their guns in the first place. If it becomes common knowledge that you don't have to take guns away from normal people, they will stop giving you power to take their guns.

Here is your chance. You have to prove it was going down AND that taking all the guns didn't make it go down any faster. Tag, yer it.

And more information on Australia

US gun control advocates exaggerate benefits of Australia's gun restrictions

New Zealand also provides a useful comparison to Australia. They are both isolated, island nations, and have similar socioeconomics and demographics. Their mass murder rates were nearly identical prior to Australia’s gun buyback.

From 1980 to 1996, Australia’s mass murder rate was 0.0042 incidents per 100,000 people. New Zealand’s was 0.0050 incidents per 100,000 people. After 1997, both countries experienced similar drops in mass murders, even though New Zealand had not altered its gun control laws.

It would be just as misleading for gun control critics to cite only New Zealand as it is for gun control advocates to cite Australia.

The right approach is to look at a lot of similar places and see what gun control measures actually made a difference. To do just that, Bill Landes of the University of Chicago and I collected data on all multiple-victim public shootings in all the United States from 1977 to 1999.

We examined 13 different gun control policies, including: waiting periods, registration, background checks, bans on assault weapons, the death penalty, and harsher penalties for committing a crime with a firearm.

But only one policy reduced the number and severity of mass public shootings: allowing victims to defend themselves with permitted, concealed handguns.

 

[cnm]

I spent over 20 years armed to protect your rights. Now I wonder if it was worth it. You certain aren't.

A) No you didn't.

B) You did it for yourself and to preserve and extend US hegemony.

C) I didn't need your protection, nor did you protect a single right of mine.

D) You're deluding yourself with your implication that more firearms is the answer.