Mass shooters target gun-free zones

[Vandalshandle]

More gun violence on campus:

Deadly School Shooting Came After Fight Between Students

Of course, if everybody had a gun, this would not happen, right? But, judging by this board alone, about 10% of "everybody" is batshit crazy, and should not even possess a sharp stick, let alone a gun.

 

[2aguy]

Just remember folks; for 2aguy's stat of "over 2,000,000 times a year, guns are used to prevent violent crime" to be true, the equivalent of everyone you see in this picture:

Would have to have prevented a crime....twenty-five times each. Every Year. Not just a crime...a violent crime. Not just by locking their doors or screaming but actively with a firearm.

Keep in mind they are not my numbers but bill clintons numbers…and the numbers of actual researchers, economists and criminologists who study the issue and don't just print photoshopped photos on the internet as an argument…


The research has been going on for 40 years, by both government and private researchers…….

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

More gun violence on campus:

Deadly School Shooting Came After Fight Between Students

Of course, if everybody had a gun, this would not happen, right? But, judging by this board alone, about 10% of "everybody" is batshit crazy, and should not even possess a sharp stick, let alone a gun.

320 million guns in private hands…only 8,124 used to murder someone….you do the math….which number is greater…since 1.5 million times a year guns are used to stop violent criminal attack and save lives...

 

[FA_Q2]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

 

[NYcarbineer]

99% of Americans aren't going to carry guns even if you let them.

Then what is the problem. Normal people with guns, that would be almost all gun owners except for a few……don't kill people with their guns…don't want a gun, don't buy a gun, lock up people who use guns to commit crimes…..

It is really that simple.

You want the felon to be able to easily buy a gun from a private individual.

We know where you stand...with the felons.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

OMG! ITS CONTAGIOUS!!!!!

 

[Brain357]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

 

[2aguy]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

 

[Brain357]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

 

[2aguy]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

No they don't...they never ask about guns and they don't use the word gun in their survey.....the National Crime Victimization survey is known for not even measuring the crimes it is supposed to be researching accurately.

 

[2aguy]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

And this is why the National Crime Victimization Survey is crap...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

 

[Brain357]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

No they don't...they never ask about guns and they don't use the word gun in their survey.....the National Crime Victimization survey is known for not even measuring the crimes it is supposed to be researching accurately.

They confirm a crime, then ask what happened. That would obviously include a gun defense.

 

[Brain357]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

And this is why the National Crime Victimization Survey is crap...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

It is by far the largest survey.

 

[Brain357]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

And this is why the National Crime Victimization Survey is crap...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

From the guy who uses surveys he can't prove exist and aren't even national....

 

[2aguy]

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

No they don't...they never ask about guns and they don't use the word gun in their survey.....the National Crime Victimization survey is known for not even measuring the crimes it is supposed to be researching accurately.

They confirm a crime, then ask what happened. That would obviously include a gun defense.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

No they don't...they never ask about guns and they don't use the word gun in their survey.....the National Crime Victimization survey is known for not even measuring the crimes it is supposed to be researching accurately.

They confirm a crime, then ask what happened. That would obviously include a gun defense.

Sorry.....it is a crap study........and people are not going to tell a badge carrying member of the government about gun use.......


6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

 

[2aguy]

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

And this is why the National Crime Victimization Survey is crap...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

From the guy who uses surveys he can't prove exist and aren't even national....

Fuck you brain....lie again of course.

 

[2aguy]

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

And this is why the National Crime Victimization Survey is crap...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

It is by far the largest survey.

It is not a gun self defense survey and doesn't even use the word gun or ask questions about gun use.

 

[Brain357]

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

And this is why the National Crime Victimization Survey is crap...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

From the guy who uses surveys he can't prove exist and aren't even national....

Fuck you brain....lie again of course.

Give the details of you la times survey then.

 

[Brain357]

I'll put it this way.

When you turned on the Super Bowl this year, you saw about 80,000 people in the stadium. Take that stadium and imagine 12 other stadiums that are filled too; same size. That will be 960,000 people.

Now take those 13 stadiums and DOUBLE IT.


When you do that; you STILL WOULD NOT imagine enough people to fulfill the claim of 2aguy that over 2,000,000 people stopped violent crime last year (and every year before that in recent memory) using guns.

Here is yet another way to put it:

Giant's Stadium: holds about 80,000 folks. Here is a visual of how many people I referenced above....(sort of)

(removed for brevity)

Forum rules will only allow me to publish 15 pictures....80,000 x 15 is 1.2 million folks. Still 800,000 short of the AVERAGE number 2aguy says used guns to stop a violent crime last year alone

This doesn't account for all of the previous years.

Nor does it account for the inherent lie that if the crime was prevented; how does one know if it were going to be a violent crime???

Anyway, it would take 25 Giants Stadiums to seat everyone who used a gun last year to stop a crime according to that moron. Didn't happen. Didn't happen in any of our lifetimes.

You can post all the pictures that you want so that you can stuff your fingers in your ears and ignore the truth.

There have been many studies on the subject and the CDC has taken them as a whole to estimate the number of defensive uses with guns a year. That number is somewhere between .5 and 1.5 million. So his number is larger - the fact that there is around a million defensive uses a year is just as damning to most gun control arguments. The hard data on homicide rates vs gun control law seals the deal - such laws do not have any effect at all.

These are real studies and no one without a preconceived notion is going to reject them because you post a nonsensical picture here. You seem to forget what 300 million as the population we are talking about really means. Even at 2 million, that means less than 1. Do you know a 100 people well enough that you are sure they would have told you if they used a gun in self defense for sure? No, you don't.

I do know someone that has used a weapon in self defense before. He, as the vast majority as well, did not have to fire it. These are stories that are never heard and therefore you assume, incorrectly, that they do not exist.

Please link where the CDC ever made this estimate.

Ncvs estimates about 108k.

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

And this is why the National Crime Victimization Survey is crap...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

For the purpose of estimating DGUs, the advantages of this study design are
1) the study is publicly funded;
2) the study is done by a government agency with extensive experience in conducting representative national surveys;
3) the large representative sample size;
4) the “representativeness” of the sample is maintained by making personal contact with households that do not respond to telephone contact;
4) the reliability of the responses is maintained by repeating interviews with the households every six months;
5) because interviews are conducted every 6 months, episodes of “telescoping*” can be identified and controlled;
6) a DGU is only counted in the setting of a criminal attack.
*"Telescoping" is the term given by researchers to a phenomenon whereby survey respondents mistakenly recall and include events that are outside of the period of time under investigation.

 

[2aguy]

the NCVS never studied gun self defense so they can't make an estimate...nice lie though....

They do estimate DGUs as you know. You need a crime for a lawful dgu.

And this is why the National Crime Victimization Survey is crap...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

From the guy who uses surveys he can't prove exist and aren't even national....

Fuck you brain....lie again of course.

Give the details of you la times survey then.

Email Dr. Gary Kleck, he has all the information on all of the research he has done.....